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Remember when Riot said Veigar was gonna get COMPENSATED for DFG removal?

Zelnorack·2/13/2015, 11:12:26 PM·211 votes·10,772 views

It was a good fuckin joke.

For lack of better words: What the actual fuck are you DOING?! Do you have any idea how to give compensation? It's not by nerfing his damage across the board, giving him a slightly longer cooldown on Q, and completely demolishing any chance for him to land EITHER HIS W OR E!

Tell me. Seriously, tell me. How high was the entirety of the balance team when they made these changes? I wanted to believe. Believe that Riot had an idea as to what they were doing with their champion pool, believe that the balance team knows how to do their JOB, cough cough cough, Yet time, and time, and time, and TIME AGAIN you've proven that you don't know what you want.

Do you know where 90% of Veigars damage came from? Do ya? Deathfire Grasp. Do you know what countered Veigars E? MOBILITY! Do you know what EVERY CHAMPION RECENTLY RELEASED UNDER THE SUN HAS?! A metric fuckton of mobility. (Due note that these are slight over-statements purposes, as mobility cannot be measured by weight, much less 1000 Kg of weight.)

I am perfectly fine with his Q being a skill-shot. I think it SHOULD have been a skillshot from the start. His W? Massive delay that does okay damage for the delay. His E was countered by mobility and mobility is what everyone has nowadays. His biggest counters were mobile and long range mages. The people he countered the hardest were the immobile mages.

Now? The fuck's he got? a 3/4 second delay on his stun, guess what? That's a massive delay. Most teamfights last maybe 4 seconds, so almost a quarter of that fight his E is getting ready- aaaand Veigar is dead because he couldn't stun the Assassin who burst him.

Tl:dr. Riot doesn't seem to know what compensation means; broke another promise. Angry Veigar fan rant. You don't miss much by only reading this part, just a lot of rage.

For those wondering. Compensation: something, typically money, awarded to someone as a recompense for loss, injury, or suffering.

226 Comments

SephAgro2/13/2015, 11:16:04 PM77 votes

This is the league of Acrobats. Immobile, squishy, burst champs like Veigar don't have a place. Eventually Veigar will be Reworked™ into a backflipping ninja to fall in line with the rest of the roster. Welcome to Mobility Creep.

lvl 2 lagspike2/14/2015, 12:18:44 AM46 votes

rip veigar...

They basically straight nerfed everything about him (yes q being a skill shot is a hard nerf since stun is now much much harder to land).

But hey, Zed is healthy assassin..

Audiomancy2/14/2015, 3:19:58 AM24 votes

I've just tried it out on the PBE.

It's actually unbearable. My E was outran by a Zyra. Y'know, that champ with the lowest movement speed in the game? The Q is a nice addition, but any enemy with a brain will zone you to hell and it's impossible to burst down a champion if there's minions between you. Then once laning's over and you're just farming random waves, you can seriously feel the extra second on Baleful Strike's cooldown. All Dark Matter is good for with this rework is getting caster minions low so you can fire Q's through the melee ones. On top of that, the Q range isn't even far enough to pierce through to the backline of a minion wave anyway. Fortunately, Primordial Burst still feels strong, but only against squishy AP champs. Otherwise it just feels incredibly weak. All in all, I rate this rework Stashu/10.

Alright, maybe that's going a bit too far. The ideas behind it are good (unlike that of a certain Snakelady's rework), such as Q being a piercing skillshot and E having a delay (though 0.75 is way waaaay too long. I hope Riot actually takes into account feedback for this project for once, doubtful though that is.

Peace out

- A sad player.

Zarxis2/13/2015, 11:47:29 PM23 votes

OP, I think you meant to say that Veigar's E counters mobility... It stuns people that try to dash through it, and skilled Veigars drop the walls directly on-target, not around enemies. That was what made him viable- stunning enemies with Event Horizon in order to land Dark Matter (W; obviously a major part of Veigar's burst). Even mobile champions could be outplayed by a Veigar that could land his E. It was balanced because that was Veigar's only defensive option- he can't run from anyone with mobility, he can't dodge CC, he has no other CC with which to aid his escape (or enable his W- to allow it to do damage to anything other than minions/monsters).

With the E delay, Veigar will have trouble against even the most immobile champions because they will be able to leave the cage or stay in it, meaning they will still be able to move and dodge W.

Veigar's W is about to become a waste of an ability because it will be impossible to land on anyone, mobile or not, and Veigar himself is about to become obsolete because his only anti-meta (anti-mobility) tool is going to be severely crippled.

Meep Man2/14/2015, 12:32:22 AM20 votes

Veigar needs an instant stun because his W is balanced around it. They removed the instant and change nothing about the W about hitting it. Now Veigar will miss 50% of his moves at the compensation of 1-2 second lower cool downs and reduced mana costs, which should have been reduced regardless.

test account2/14/2015, 2:32:42 AM17 votes

Katarina : Doesn't need DFG, gets what basically amounts to a small buff to her laning phase for its removal. Ahri : Already had decent killing potential. Gets buffed. Fizz : Never needed DFG. Gets buffed.

Mordekaiser : Gets threatened with a rework by someone who uses the same phrasing as stashu. This is sure to go well. Veigar : Compensated with nerfs.

Altricad2/14/2015, 1:58:18 AM14 votes

Rito has it's dictionary messed up, according to them compensation = *nerf

Bakunetsu2/14/2015, 4:09:05 AM13 votes

riot, i want a refund, on all my skins and my ip for veigar. i bought final boss veigar under the assumption that he was a champion, you now gave me a god damn creep. what the fuck am i doing to do with a creep? you nerf irelia, you nerfed malphite, took away ionic spark and heart of gold, don't want to play shen, wtf am i suppose to play now?

do you know how veigar plays? 3 hits and he is dead, thats a god damn minion. its bad enough vi likes to ult me from bushes. how about you make changes before releasing a skin, then we don't have to waste time on your shit. make me buy a fucking magazine then give the skin to everyone. i still remember that, you think we forget the shit you do to us? BRING BACK FORCE OF NATURE.
took away amumu's ult range, reduced kennen's attack range. making akali back to her original thinking its a "nerf" its the same damn champion.

when you give me my refund i expect interest back on it also.

Kowe The Ewok2/14/2015, 4:54:17 AM12 votes

The "compensation" is a nerf.

The mana reduction is just a poor attempt to undo the damage done by gutting Morellonomnicom and Athene's. It's + - 0 to what he was last season NOT counting the DFG removal.

As for the other changes: Making his Q hit multiple targets contradicts his role as a single target nuker. Increasing Its minium cooldown actually makes it worse, especially it got shifted from a reliable to an unreliable source of damage.

His change to his W is useless. Nobody above silver elo will ever get hit by it unless he's stunned.

...And with the nerfs to his E this is definitely not going to happen. =.75s is an INSANE delay, especially if there's a warning notification.

Guttign his E like that not only renders his W useless, it also leaves him chaneless and defenselis against any sort of assassin. 0.75s? Hell, even if we ignore human reaction time he's already dead within that timeframe if an Akali, Blanc or Zed jumps on him.

Not to mention that he completely looses any chasing potential. Buy T2 boots and never bother about it again....

The 0.2 ratio nerfs on his ultimate?... Do we even have to discuss this? He comes from a time where there were no AD casters. Even at that point of time he wasn't a competitive pick. Now that he already looses 0.8scaling once he locks in removing an additional 0.2 just kills it. ESPECIALLY after the DFG removal - which he was supposed to be compensated for.... not nerfed further...

InvalidGuest2/13/2015, 11:22:52 PM12 votes

Bump for justice

Riot please, this is like a direct buff to mobile champions.

Xengre2/14/2015, 3:49:24 AM10 votes

Geez... First Mordekaiser is looking at being gutted as "compensation" for the removal of DFG and now Veigar, in large part, is being heavily nerfed across the board as well. Seriously... after events with Cass, Nidalee, Zed, Lee, Reksai, and Kalista I genuinely wonder what the fuck is wrong with Riot's balance team. I have always actually lost faith, the little that I held on to, in the design and balance team. Besides these they were doing alright, but these few issues are so grossly severe that it really shows how little Riot actually listens to the player base or gives consideration to their actions. Clearly, when a group/individual at Riot makes a major no-no Riot is incapable of course correcting in an appropriate manner and preventing such severity in the future or on repeated basis. The communication, real communication, or lack of doesn't help matters. They only hear/acknowledge what they want.

Economicz2/14/2015, 1:56:55 AM9 votes

This is coming from the same board that said ahri would be gutted by the change and then she was obscenely op. Did you fail to notice that veigar gets ap easier now? Ult costs way less, solid meteor buffs? It could be a nerf, but this is just boards jumping to conclusions. PS kalista has a nerf coming, riot specifically said so

A Miss Fortune2/14/2015, 3:16:06 AM9 votes

Riot has absolutely no clue how to balance League of Legends.

Veigar : High skill cap champion, burst damage mage with defined weakness and strengths. Fun to play and play against.

Kalista : High damage champion that can kite an entire team and has little to no counters in the game and is a nightmare to play against.

Riot is turning the game into League of Mobility, where only highly mobile champions such as Kalista, Yasuo, and Zed win the game due to them being able to roam and kite with ease due to it all being built into their kits. This Veigar nerf/buff either way you see it as is completely useless while champions like Yasuo remain untouched and heavily unbalanced.

If Riot continues this then one by one champions will become low tier, unplayed champions while the high mobility, burst damage champions continuously remain in-meta.

Champions who lack mobility such as Taric , Urgot , Nautilus , and even MissFortune who was designed to be a MOBILE champion are losing to champions who are more mobile. Riot needs to get their act together because they're nerfing the wrong champions. Only once in hundreds of games I've played, spectated, or watched in streams have I actually seen a Veigar carry hard and get a pentakill. While champions like Fiora , Zed , and Riven get them with ease.

Aakesh2/14/2015, 2:02:26 AM8 votes

this is the compensation for dfg

niggerlee and zed is still "healthy"

Destroyed Mordekaiser

Made him more tanky took any way damage keeps on having zero CC for what he is.

Destroyed Elise

God help riot if some one on par with lee or near it.

Destroyed Kha Zix

Same thing with Elise

Destroyed Veigar

One thing let him deal with 100+ dash's newer champs have tack fucking on gone now.

New Q shit makes it harder to farm now.(Q is now a skill shot that stops on second unit hit.)

Q is a skillshot it even has more CD than before most likely not even a mana buff 20% less AP on ult delayed stun

Amachy2/14/2015, 10:01:36 PM7 votes

Did someone say op?

Fiora Press R wipes an entire team, but yeah lets nerf the non mobile mage who killed a single target.

Der Lindwurm2/13/2015, 11:45:15 PM6 votes

Remember when everyone heard that and said "uh oh..."?

Yormaughm2/14/2015, 4:08:37 PM6 votes

Any and all Veigar players knew that the moment Riot looked at Veigar they would ruin him. He didn't need DFG, he still does insane damage without it, (in fact almost no champions "needed" it because it was the champions who already did insane burst that built it for insaner burst, all it did was guarantee a kill on the off chance the enemy had built MR or something.) So they decided to "compensate" champions who used it, when in basically every case "compensate" meant "nerf."

Riot has decided that doing damage without whittling your opponents down with poke first, thereby giving you the opportunity to miss and them the opportunity to dodge, is OP and they are going to systematically destroy any and every champion who can do this. You know, because point and click characters like Taric, Ryze and Veigar are SOOOOOOO dominant that they're crowding out more diverse picks and are the only champs you ever see anymore...

It just flabbergasts me how they don't understand how this removes all diversity from the game by making every single champion's playstyle exactly the same, I mean, why don't they just give everyone flash automatically and only let you choose 1 summoner spell while they're at it? And since everyone is now an apple, we have ONLY apples to apples comparisons, so only the champions with the tiniest of numerical advantages will ever get played anymore. Riot is slowly and single-handedly removing 80% of their own characters from viability under the guise of offering "counterplay" when there's plenty of counterplay already, people just refuse to do it, and in a compeitive setting, when you refuse to adapt, you deserve to lose. That's just a fact.

We now have a game with 124 champions who throw things at you from range until you get hit by them enough for them to ult you for the kill. You now have to choose, on basically every champion, whether to use your cooldowns to try to do damage, or to avoid the damage your opponent is trying to do. Mobility, range and poke are the only things Riot cares about. Welcome to League of Dodgeball, and subsequently, the leage of 70 minute games.

ZeroAnarchy2/14/2015, 12:28:30 AM6 votes

People should stop overreacting until it actually hits live. People said the same thing about Ahri and said how she's useless and does no damage. Guess what, she's stronger than ever.

FDS Desperado2/14/2015, 7:57:16 PM6 votes

Anyone who thinks veigar stun needed nerfed or had no counterplay either positioned poorly or is just flat too lazy to buy item 3102 item 3139 or item 3222

NeoBlaze82/15/2015, 12:34:26 AM5 votes

With no instant E veigar will die in almost all of the ganks the enemy do. This change is so stupid... It was his only saving thing in his line, now he will feed the enemy team with dumb deads, and riot say that now is like a cage, lol, ranged dps like ahri will burst him from the inside of the cage, i hope they reconsider this, this is not a compensation for the dfg, this is just ruining his utility and potential. Sorry about my english, but this are my concerns about my favourite yordle.

I Main Swain2/14/2015, 5:14:36 AM5 votes

ok, while I agree 100% that the veigar changes are bad, there are exactly 0 instances in which raging at riot has helped.

also, while dfg did boost his dmg a lot, it wasn't THAT essential to his bursting people down unless they were tanky

LoL Ergo Urgot2/14/2015, 8:51:49 AM4 votes

Riot has read the posts towards the balance team, and now the balance team wants revenge and will make us all suffer.

Tsukuy0m12/14/2015, 7:14:02 PM4 votes

what???? veiger cant burst anyone with DFG anymore??? alright guys lets buff him up! remove his insta stun, now he will become a troll pick :)

Packun Flower2/14/2015, 9:12:18 PM4 votes

Riot's balance team are a bunch of drunk monkey's, i thought we established this by now

CupcakeTrap2/14/2015, 7:58:26 AM3 votes

At first, I was very happy with these changes, mostly because they weren't a complete rework. I think it would have been a shame for them to scrap Veigar's kit and redo it, because I think he has a very interesting and complex kit. (The popular opinion is, "lol wat his kit is just hit all buttons to one-shot", but anyone who's played a lot of Veigar knows there are many, many layers of strategic thinking. The "throw everything to one-shot someone" bit is a nice trick, but it's just the beginning, and it's not as powerful as it sometimes looks.)

As I thought about it, though, I realized you were right. This is basically a redistribution of power within the kit, not a buff. That seems really strange for a set of changes that are supposed to be about DFG compensation. Most noticeably, his damage is down. The notes claimed that he gets more q-farm, but more q-farm does not properly compensate for the loss of a 15% max health nuke and +20% damage overall.

And then there's the stun. I didn't like that his stun was just a game of "land the edge" either, but they replaced it with a version that basically means every stun is a "missed" stun under the old paradigm. When Veigars miss stuns, they get destroyed. Now, he always misses. They need to do something else with the stun to give it some power in exchange for the .75s delay nerf.

Sirin Gioro2/13/2015, 11:55:54 PM2 votes

If I were changing Veigar I would give his ult 1.5 AP Ratio even though that sounds incredibly unbalanced Give his stun a damage amplifier (stunned targets receive 0.5% more magic damage etc.)

Oh and who cares about Veigar honestly Like... Like... LeeSin isn't even... Buffed (Kappa)... lol

Cenobite Azaziel2/14/2015, 7:16:15 AM1 votes

IT's the biggest AOE stun in the game. Playing VS a good veigar wasn't even fun. Stun where the ONLY counterplay is that you can survive IF veigar can't hit it. Even his W was lacking counter play. W and stun? Hope you have tenacity boot or you're gonna eat up tons of damage. I don't see any problem in the veigars changes.