2 fair Yasuo game balancing changes without changing his abilities

Basshead·6/20/2017, 11:17:18 PM·2 votes·778 views

Each of Yasuo's abilities are unique and really make him feel like a strong, mobile, fighter that is a fun champion to play. Rather than change his original abilities, I see opportunity for 2 minor compromises that let him remain to be the Yasuo we know and love, make him much less frustrating to play against, and overall make him more of a pleasure to see on the rift.

These 2 little changes provide the most game play value for as little coding implementation as possible, AND they leave room for creative balancing tweaks to them. They are:

1) Move Yasuo's passive RESOLVE (the white shield) to his W.

Reasons for Change 1: Everyone gripes that Yasuo having 2 passives is strong. So at the very least make the compromise of moving it to his W. W is already a defensive spell. So give Yasuo an incentive to learn this skill even in matchups with enemy's that don't have projectiles (like Garen, Darius, Karthus, etc). Heck even him not having this passive shield for lvls 1 and 2 will feel like a breath of fresh air for mages trying to lock down a fast dashing, tornado-spewing monster.

Recommended Tweak 1: Make the shield activate on wind wall press. I think we could do away with the whole shield-comes-up-every-so-often especially because we already see it on other champions (Camille and Rakan). Also, this would add skill expression to the shield and also might barely save his ass in some situations where the wind wall won't block a skill [see change 2]. Yasuo might use it situationally more so for the shield, but by paying the cost of the windwall cooldown, giving his opponents windows for counter attack.

Tweak 2: Flow only generates after Wind wall is used. Kind of like the first tweak but giving Yasuo the shield after the windwall rather than immediately. I quite like this because it synergizes well with the idea of first blocking a projectile, THEN Yasuo has a shield to work with.

Tweak 3: Make the passive shield be a reward for blocking projectiles. This leaves in a lot of room open for interpretation and implementation.

2) Yasuo's Windwall blocks all projectiles but it does NOT block ANY ultimates.

Reasons for Change 2: Imagine if you will that Yasuo was meta. And somehow beyond our wildest believes Yasuo was in the world championships. Imagine a game where Yasuo was darting around going HAM picking up a kill and then suddenly the enemy Jinx was able to snipe him across the map (maybe even with an opportunity for a double with the aoe splash), would we want to see Yasuo be able to delete that rocket just because his windwall cooldown was back up? Or would we want to see the explosion of a sick play?

Everyone agrees that windwall is frustrating. It's a very cool ability to use but Yasuo has alot of other cool things going for him that him being able to NEGATE another champion's ULTIMATE ability with a BASIC ability is just anti fun. This compromise also serves as a clear rule that even new players can understand, and makes it easier for game designers moving forward: Yasuo's windwall can NOT block ultimates. Because as it stands right now, it just doesn't make sense some times as to why, for example, Nami's Tidal Wave disappeared. I have to explain to my lvl 5 newbie friends that it was just because it was coded as a projectile.

It's just fair man. Yasuo's wind wall is on a much shorter cd than ultimates. This change will allow him to keep his currently moderate cooldown, which feels good for him in late game skirmishes.

I think I did excellent job of making compromises that keep Yasuo's core kit unchanged. This would make these changes much easier to implement and test. I hope many Riot eyeballs get to see this and it stirs the gameplay team's design ideas.

Please comment your thoughts on my ideas so we can talk about it. Thank you.

23 Comments

Takazaki6/20/2017, 11:37:14 PM1 votes

I really like the effort here. so im going to give you an actual response with no snark.

  1. Move Yasuo's passive RESOLVE (the white shield) to his W. Reasons for Change 1: Everyone gripes that Yasuo having 2 passives is strong. So at the very least make the compromise of moving it to his W. W is already a defensive spell. So give Yasuo an incentive to learn this skill even in matchups with enemy's that don't have projectiles (like Garen, Darius, Karthus, etc). Heck even him not having this passive shield for lvls 1 and 2 will feel like a breath of fresh air for mages trying to lock down a fast dashing, tornado-spewing monster. recommended Tweak 1: Make the shield activate on wind wall press. I think we could do away with the whole shield-comes-up-every-so-often especially because we already see it on other champions (Camille and Rakan). Also, this would add skill expression to the shield and also might barely save his ass in some situations where the wind wall won't block a skill [see change 2]. Yasuo might use it situationally more so for the shield, but by paying the cost of the windwall cooldown, giving his opponents windows for counter attack.

Moving the passive to W isn't a bad idea becaue it weakens top lane yasuo forcing him to skill point something he doesn't need. The main issue with this is it also cripples mid lane yasuo as he either hasto get it level 2 in order to stay safe or just straight up pray the enemy doesnt level 2 all in him.

Remember Yasuo has the weakest base stats of any slayer, Trading with yasuo level 2 with this change would make him auto lose it and quite possible force him to play passive for the next 3 levels which gears down his tempo for no legitimate reason when he is suppose to be a high tempo champion. you turn him into a boring farm bot in mid lane like akali/fizz without the same power spike akali/fizz has with levels.

Lastly Making the shield not auto proc on damage is a mistake. as it stands the ebst counter play for yasuo is abusing his horrid stats in lane. His passive is the only thing that allows him to trade in lane other then windwall. both of which have extreamly high cooldowns. keeping yasuo's shield down is a job up to the laner which forces them to be proactive in lane and leads to interactive gameplay. changing it otherwise removing any incentive to harass yasuo as he will just shield it.

outside of lane it would just a be shitter version of riven E.

  1. Yasuo's Windwall blocks all projectiles but it does NOT block ANY ultimates. Reasons for Change 2: Let's face it guys, if we saw Yasuo in the world championships and the enemy Jinx was able to snipe him across the map (maybe even with an opportunity for a double with the aoe splash), would we want to see Yasuo be able to delete that rocket just because his windwall cooldown was back up? Or would we want to see the explosion of a sick play? Everyone agrees that windwall is frustrating. It's a very cool ability to use but Yasuo has alot of other cool things going for him that him being able to NEGATE another champion's ULTIMATE ability with a BASIC ability is just anti fun. This compromise also serves as a clear rule that even new players can understand, and makes it easier for game designers moving forward: Yasuo's windwall can NOT block ultimates. Because as it stands right now, it just doesn't make sense some times as to why, for example, Nami's Tidal Wave disappeared. I have to explain to my lvl 5 newbie friends that it was just because it was coded as a projectile. It's just fair man. Yasuo's wind wall is on a much shorter cd than ultimates. This change will allow him to keep his currently moderate cooldown, which feels good for him in late game skirmishes.

There is a reason Yasuo isnt played in worlds. this this is unrealistic because proplayers understand something basic they silver and bronze refuse to acknowledge.** no one in their right mind shoots a skill shot ult at yasuo knowing full well his windwall is up.** its like at the same people who dive tryn under tower when his ult is up. why would you do something that will not work because they have a cooldown up and call it unfair because you did it while the cooldown was up. follow the logic here, it just doesn't make any sense literally every other champion in this game has the same condition as that and even some items (item 3157 ) but suddenly if we are talking about yasuo its unfair?

People like to throw out that its unfair that yasuo can block a ult, but what exactly makes that unfair? labing this as basic and ult and then balencing around a label makes no sense.

further more lets talk about how yasuo's ult is conditional. without a team built around him yasuo cannot reliably ult, no other champion has this condition. i have gone entire games without ulting as yasuo simply because an opportunity never arose.

he pays for that windwall by having a subpar ult that's a glorified steroid and shitty stats. there is no reason to change windwalls ability to block ults unless you change either of those, which compound that if you change either of those yasuo's will go crazy top lane because suddenly the gates holding them back have been removed because players didnt want to think about using their ults.

to double up on this why is it people complain about yasuo W but not spell shields on noc and sivir? or bruam shield?

they do the exact same thing except they block ANYTHING ( bruam withstanding) whilst having a lower cooldown and other effects tied in.

the answer is just bias. yasuo is popular and that's why people will complain about literally everything about him.

LostFr0st6/20/2017, 11:39:01 PM1 votes

I don't think moving that passive to his W is a bad idea, but the additional suggested tweaks all have something "irk" about them.

The first tweak feels redundant and makes both shields feel bad since he is forced to use both at once. It would sent the signal of "why do I need to block the projectile if I have a dmg shield" or "why do I have a dmg shield if I blocked what was coming. It's kinda like when Azir E used to give a shield and knockup. "Why the shield if they're ccd?" so it got removed.

The second tweak makes it so he has an extra layer even once his ww is baited out. It feels bad for the opponent since they are already down a spell. You'd also end up with strange situations where using W on nothing is optimal in lane before going for a trade. <---would be hilarious, don't get me wrong :P

The third tweak sounds fine at first glance but then you realize it punishes Yasuos that dodge stuff with E and save their W for emergencies/the perfect moment. Unless I'm missing something of course, as you said it leaves a lot open to interpretation.

Second change

"Doesn't block any ultimates" is too blanket and nuanced for people to keep track of. Either it blocks projectiles, or it doesn't. Anything beyond that fuzzies communication of the gameplay mechanic (exception is lasers, which still sometimes gets asked about on the boards---rarely though)

The burden of knowledge on players (playing as Yasuo and vs him) would be too large for the second change to be done. Examples: does it block Twitch autos when ulted? Vayne's? How about Udyr R aoe proc?

Personally, I think they should attack the double crit passive and work it into his kit. His item spikes "surprise" the enemy after one of his buys and then he catches up based on that. His W being similar to Yorick W would also assist in reducing opponent frustration factors. In exchange he could get more bases and ratios to work with.

Shahamut6/20/2017, 11:50:20 PM1 votes

This would change none of his actual gameplay pattern and thus none of his frustration.

It WOULD increase Yasuo player frustration when they throw up windwall and an airborn rocket flies right through it, or an arrow, etc. That is a level of inconsistency that would be rediculous.

Better ideas:

Q: Steel Tempest____ Cooldown: 8/7/6/5/4

After 0.54 - 0.18 (based on bonus attack speed) seconds-delay, Yasuo thrusts his sword, dealing physical damage to all enemies in the target direction and granting Gathering Storm upon dealing damage. Yasuo can hold Gathering Storm for up to 10 seconds.

Steel Tempest can critically strike for 75% damage and applies on-hit effects to the first target hit. Casting Steel Tempest after Sweeping Blade affects enemies around Yasuo instead.

SECOND CAST - STEEL WIND RISING: As Steel Tempest, but if Yasuo has "gathering storm" he gains instead "gathered storm" and can hold it for up to 8 seconds.

THIRD CAST - GATHERED STORM: Yasuo consumes the stack of Gathered Strom to unleash a whirlwind that travels an increased distance in the target direction, dealing the same damage and knocking airborne all enemies hit. Steel Tempest's knockup does not gain increased range when cast during Sweeping Blade.

This ability is not affected by cooldown reduction but instead is reduced by attacks speed to a cap.

Summary: Increase early cooldown on Q (still reduced by attack speed), give Yasuo players 10 seconds to gain "gathered storm" but only 8 seconds to use it once they have gathered it. (I would reduce it to 6, but then he wouldnt be able to use the tornado till level 3 or possibly even 5)

What does this do?

Early game, Yasuo has fewer AA/Q combos, fewer tornado zoning opportunities, fewer opportunities to harass from range, and fewer free knock up trades. This reduces his lane presence by granting larger windows of opportunity for his opponents to play against him.

W: Windwall____Cooldown: 26 / 23 / 20 / 17 / 14_____TARGET RANGE: 225 (same overall distance, now spawns at his melee range rather than in his model)

ACTIVE: Yasuo slashes his sword forward to creates a gust of wind that travels in the target direction over 0.25 seconds to form a wall in front of him. The wall slowly drifts forward 50 units over the duration, blocking all enemy projectiles except turret attacks.

Duration: 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds.

Makes windwall less oppressive with the greatly reduced duration, and more skill oriented since he has to A) react a bit quicker and B) Cast in the right direction.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, windwall size is fixed at live rank 2 (or 3?) and does not get bigger with range.

Power to be shifted elsewhere. But these changes would actually reduce his frustration levels.

Quepha6/21/2017, 12:02:03 AM1 votes

would still ban.

GULAG 4 U6/21/2017, 5:02:22 AM1 votes

Without chaning his abilities

.

Removes a skill

¿