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The reason Dark Harvest is actually too busted. And it's not the damage.

Zoe The Loli XD·11/25/2018, 9:28:15 PM·45 votes·17,521 views

I don't want to make this too long and I really hope Riot reads this.

The fact that just bringing champions to > half health procs Dark Harvest is too strong. Dark Harvest needs a rework to only go off if you damage a champion after they go below 50%. That damage needs to be limited to auto attacks, champion abilities, summoner spells and active items while excluding D.O.T BUT including the first tick or the initial damage that causes it. I'm not sure where to put scorch but this rune is cancer with dark harvest and poke champions. No one should be able to land an AA, like Teemo, especially with an Item like Liandry's, or a point and click, like Pantheon with Scorch and Corrupting Potion, and just sit back while dark harvest is proc'd.

I was going to write this like 2 days ago and i've forgotten half of what I was going to write but IMO this needs to be fixed. I normally do a lot of troll posting but i'm 100% serious on this. If you have anything to add about something I may have missed I'd really like to read it and If you know how to get a riot balance team employee to read this I'll love you forever.

Thanks for reading :)

IMPORTANT EDIT: I forgot to add certain things and this is more important than DOT. Abilities like Jhin's q SHOULD NOT do multiple DH stacks of damage! Do you know how many bronze Jhins are running around with 25 kills 50 stacks of DH because if you kill some one with your q it does dh damage to the next champion along with his ult?? Dark Harvest should only work ONCE per ability which kind of goes hand in hand with the rest of the post.
ankoanko19 makes a great point as well. They don't like how it resets on assists and this reminds me of a point I wanted to make. If they're going to make DH reset, they need to have all runes reset on kills and assists. There is no arguing this point AT ALL. They need to change it to reducing the cool down of DH on kills and assists. Maybe more of a cd for kills than assists, who knows, but not resetting like it's previous version.

P.S. I'm not salty about these 2 champions and being able to abuse DH.. I've been abusing it and it's just not fair. I've only reached plat 1 last season but i'm beating diamond 3+ players on my alt on a server with 200 ping. that should tell you something.

55 Comments

Jenivie11/25/2018, 9:30:57 PM43 votes

just remove dark harvest pls

iiGazeii11/25/2018, 9:30:31 PM23 votes

I agree. The enemy should be at or below 50% HP to even proc Dark Harvest. Bringing them from above 50% to below 50% shouldn't deal the extra damage or harvest the soul, and DoT/AoE damage shouldn't proc it.

I think the threshold should also be a bit less than 50%. 33%-40% would still be reasonable, but would require a bit more effort to reach.

WukongMain11/25/2018, 9:52:38 PM11 votes

I'm a Wukong main and i have to admit i've been abusing dark harvest as well. Wukong already has insane burst potential but with dark harvest it really just puts it over the edge. I'm noticing higher bursting capabilities which is confusing cause not many patches ago Duskblade was nerfed as a means to reduce some of these abusers of it, But now we get dark harvest basically resetting the playing field back to when none of those previous items were nerfed.

I get its preseason and this is the time for numbers to be tweaked, I just hope it gets tweaked before next season comes live.

i'm playing with ping spiking well over 400 at least twice every 5 seconds and i'm doing better with this dark harvest than i was before with stable under 50 ping. Shouldn't i be doing worse with ping spiking 400+ so often? Maybe i'm just improving due to having a small window of lower ping so i'm acting more decisively when they go out of position idk. it's weird.

Dark harvest burst is fun though :). Seeing the enemies hit the floor is always entertaining.

Malix Farwin11/26/2018, 12:39:19 AM11 votes

Yea I've said this a while ago in a thread where someone was trying to justify it by comparing its total damage to Aery and Comet. What makes DH so strong is that it only procs sub 50% which means you aren't wasting the proc when people are at relatively safe health levels but in most cases its helping you secure the kill.

Kojike11/26/2018, 1:29:31 AM9 votes

I agree. It's just not good for the game when whole teams take it every game.

XL BENCH PRESS11/26/2018, 8:58:41 AM3 votes

Yeah I was taken from 100% hp to about 20% hp as S.A. Kayn by a single Rengar Q. I was chasing him out in the open and he just turned around and Q'd me for almost all of my health (and he was NOT fed). Imagine if he was fed, 1 Q = insta death.

Usually I don't complain about Riot being bad, but this is a joke.

YuGiHo11/25/2018, 10:26:06 PM3 votes

idk if it works the way u say. I tried it on zoe and i brought this janna down to 40% hp from full life with a q r combo but my dark harvest did not go off. the janna lit up showing me if i damaged her 1 more time that i would get a stack but my keystone did not trigger on her even though i brought her form 100% - 40%

Tormentula11/26/2018, 1:36:44 AM3 votes

I think the damage needs toned down personally, or a mechanical change so its healthier to play against.

DH evens out with electrocute (@ level 18) at 20 stacks (before it was 13.)

I'm really not finding it hard to get >20 before level 15 meaning DH at all stages of the game for me is constantly more damage then electrocute, I'm getting enough stacks to keep up with electrocute's scaling, and on top of that it scales higher then electrocutes damage and can be proced multiple times in a teamfight..

and is especially bullshit that red buff and items can proc it. While DoT in champion kits I think is annoying, I believe its fair that say, teemo or malzahar can proc DH since they're literally limited to a SUPPORT keystone (aery) without deathfire touch, and this kinda does work for them (during laning phase probably all of DFT's poke equals that one DH proc anyway). However Ignite, liandry's scorch.. those shouldn't proc it imo.

DH should be restricted to champion kits, not third party sources including;

  • items
  • runes
  • debuffs (lulu's bonus damage for your autos, red buff, sej passive, zeke's from an ally, etc)
  • summoner spells (ignite, mark, smite)

Like...its not hard to stack it at all: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228129464251318273/516408855358603291/unknown.png

I think reducing it to +4 damage per stack (from 5) would be fair (would need 25 stacks to even out with electrocute, meaning it'll be more rewarding then electrocute if you play well, it'll still be reliable for teamfights, but it will fall off in comparison if you can't get the stacks or fall behind.), but I'd like to see if that kind of nerf is even necessary if they removed third party damage sources first. (less of those "lul got a stack off that" moments so less stacks in total).

The rune itself is fine by design though. I like the concept, just it could see healthier tweaks.

EDIT: I just want to add a disclaimer that i didn't factor the different AP/AD ratios when evening out the stacks with electrocute. There's too many variables with the scalings that can make the gaps dramatically different. I'm strictly referring to 20 stacks of DH = the per level scaling of max level electrocute

Jackom111/26/2018, 2:51:39 PM2 votes

I think there's a common problem between electrocute and dark harvest. It's two runes for burst damage builds. Of course, people choose whatever is stronger at the moment, since the have basically the same purpose.

Dark harvest right now it's just an electrocute that doesn't require 3 hits and starts weaker, but it doesn't need much to get on the same level, and actually surpass it.

First of all, they have to decide what kind of playstyle each rune fits, beyond simply "early game focused" and "late game focused".

Electrocute is a single target burst. Also, if your champ has one or more AoE spells, you risk hitting champions other than you primary target, and if that happens during a teamfight, the rune is wasted, especially if it procs on a tank. Thus you should want it on a champion who mostly deals in single target attacks.

Dark harvest right now works just the same, but if you accidentally proc it on the wrong the target, you still get a stack, and if said target dies, then after 1.5 seconds you can use it again. It's just electrocute with better tradeoffs. Instead, change the champions it should appeal to. Have it work better on burst mages, who do AoE burst instead of single target bursts. The scaling would also help them more, since they're usually more in need of scaling into late game than assassins. Change the way damage is dealt, from single target to AoE, that gets stronger the more targets are hit. It would reward burst mages like Viktor, Lissandra, Lux, Annie, as long as they try to hit as many enemies as possible, intead just flash-ulting the adc. You could mix damage and defense reduction, to reward "slower bursts", again, more typical of burst mages, and to be more effective on the whole enemy team, but less abusable on squishy targets.

Wasteland Wraith11/26/2018, 6:39:27 AM2 votes

I think dark harvest is overrated post hot fix.

Now let's go over a few things. The numbers first. As most of us know, 20 souls is the requirement to match electrocute in base damage alone, this doesn't take into account that the ratios differ pretty substantially as well.

E: .4 BAd, .25 Ap DH: .25 BAd, .15 Ap

Now, let's say we look in lane. Oh you didn't kill your target. Well your ball is going to take longer to get rolling if you don't manage to get a kill every proc of it.

Electrocute on the other hand offers the reliability of followup all ins at a much lower cool down. Basically if you don't kill your target in a single all in, you are already behind electrocute damage curve.

Moving on, the rune fills a niche of a snowballing bloody game filled with lots of kills to really get you going. But I have a theory.

That everyone and their mother wants to be the carry and utilize the new 'busted rune'. So in turn you get a game filled with much squishier target selection where over 75% of players are just glass cannons trying to burst each other. Allowing for the condition of a bloody game to become self fulfilling. Someone's is going to get fed somewhere with such a squishy team, and they will take those experiences to Reddit or the boards here.

We can't act like Dark Harvest is the be all end all rune to win a game or even lane for that matter. If everyone is posting their own anecdotal experiences I might as well mentioned I won lane as Camille vs akali with dark harvest and put her so far behind once I got rolling with pta that she stood at 3 souls for 25 mins.

It's a rune reliant on you snowballing. It's a rune reliant on a bloody mess of a game. It's a joke to see everyone overhype this just so it gets nerfed into the ground. Sure take 1 damage from souls if it makes you feel better but we can't sit here and act like it's much more busted than it actually is.

ankoanko1911/26/2018, 2:07:23 AM2 votes

I dont even get why it resists on ASSISTS. Thats so stupid.

The Darkened11/26/2018, 2:44:03 PM2 votes

How much fed you need to be to just bring someone to half health with few teemo shot or one panth's spear? If they keep their hp high, you will never proc dark harvest.

ModKnightsKemplar11/26/2018, 5:28:38 AM2 votes

I honestly think it might be fine if it didn't stack on damage.

If it only stacked on kills, there would at least be counterplay to it. I'd be able to live with that (at least, I'd be ok with trying it).

Dracocrash11/26/2018, 5:44:32 PM1 votes

I think the best way to balance it is to half base damage, damage from souls and scaling completely. And make it so that if you get a kill, while DH is on CD, for the next 5s your next hit vs a champion below 50% hp will deal twice the damage, and if you get a kill within 5s of dealing that double damage, your next DH hit deals 3x damage, for the next 5s. Making it more of a teamfight mastery, differentiating it from electrocute and reducing the upfront burst damage abuse cases (hi, karthus) while making it a more potent teamfight mastery for champions that thrive on killing multiple people in teamfights (hi, kat, yi, etttc)

Eleshakai11/26/2018, 5:45:09 PM1 votes

Basically: Giving every single champion an execute is broken. The champs that have executes are balanced around those executes. Champions without executes are balanced around not having executes.

SpecterVonBaren11/26/2018, 9:16:15 PM1 votes

The real problem with Dark Harvest is the same problem its had since its very first iteration. Making a champion agnostic ability capable of infinitely scaling regardless of who is using and what build they are using with it is not a healthy design. This isn't like Veigar or Nasus who can be balanced around their infinite scaling, you can't have a Keystone like this without it either being trash or must have.

ÍCorkiÍ12/3/2018, 12:11:42 AM1 votes

My problems with Dark Harvest are its scaling with AP/AD and how anything outside of abilities/auto attacks can proc it's damage, be it DOT or even Luden's passive. I think it could be a very balanced rune with a bit of tweaking. Removing the external scaling and reverting the previous changes would give it some good early game damage, but make it useless if you're not constantly harvesting souls, giving an effect similar to Mejai's. I think what's angering most people is the rune in it's current state can be taken by any champion and it'll still perform too well to be healthy for the game.

Original Sin11/26/2018, 10:07:29 AM1 votes

just fucken remove the rune. it will never be balanced just like azir kalista and ryze. stop reworking it and just remove it.

Rıots Bad Client11/26/2018, 1:43:32 PM1 votes

summoner 14 item 3905 should proc it... but it do

Hupsis11/26/2018, 2:15:42 PM1 votes

Riot could make it proc after two damage instances with a delay between them --> first damage an enemy to prepare them for soul harvesting and after 1.5 sec damaging them again harvests a soul.

imfoolish11/26/2018, 2:33:13 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zoe The Loli XD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JTZslW5a,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-25T21:28:15.801+0000)

I don't want to make this too long and I really hope Riot reads this.

The fact that just bringing champions to > half health procs Dark Harvest is too strong. Dark Harvest needs a rework to only go off if you damage a champion after they go below 50%. That damage needs to be limited to auto attacks, champion abilities, summoner spells and active items while excluding D.O.T BUT including the first tick or the initial damage that causes it. I'm not sure where to put scorch but this rune is cancer with dark harvest and poke champions. No one should be able to land an AA, like Teemo, especially with an Item like Liandry's, or a point and click, like Pantheon with Scorch and Corrupting Potion, and just sit back while dark harvest is proc'd.

I was going to write this like 2 days ago and i've forgotten half of what I was going to write but IMO this needs to be fixed. I normally do a lot of troll posting but i'm 100% serious on this. If you have anything to add about something I may have missed I'd really like to read it and If you know how to get a riot balance team employee to read this I'll love you forever.

Thanks for reading :)

IMPORTANT EDIT: I forgot to add certain things and this is more important than DOT. Abilities like Jhin's q SHOULD NOT do multiple DH stacks of damage! Do you know how many bronze Jhins are running around with 25 kills 50 stacks of DH because if you kill some one with your q it does dh damage to the next champion along with his ult?? Dark Harvest should only work ONCE per ability which kind of goes hand in hand with the rest of the post.
ankoanko19 makes a great point as well. They don't like how it resets on assists and this reminds me of a point I wanted to make. If they're going to make DH reset, they need to have all runes reset on kills and assists. There is no arguing this point AT ALL. They need to change it to reducing the cool down of DH on kills and assists. Maybe more of a cd for kills than assists, who knows, but not resetting like it's previous version.

P.S. I'm not salty about these 2 champions and being able to abuse DH.. I've been abusing it and it's just not fair. I've only reached plat 1 last season but i'm beating diamond 3+ players on my alt on a server with 200 ping. that should tell you something.

GUSY GUYS GUYS!!! Riot did keep their promise!@!@!!@#!@ They dont want an enemy to unload their entire load in the first hit!! so they changed it to when ur lower health.