Is there anyone who takes Thunderlord's Decree?

crazydanddgnat·11/13/2015, 8:33:22 PM·1 votes·3,248 views

Compared to all the other masteries, even competing keystones, Thunderlord's decree seems somewhat lacking.

If you're a mage, Deathfire Touch is nearly directly better (with the only slight downside being that it will do 10/level damage less if you only have one damaging spell and its AoE, and have no ap, and I have no idea what champion with that kit would be in the cunning tree), and is directly better if you build more than 10 AP per level. This would still probably be true for mages even if it had no cooldown, since it activates on three abilities/attacks and any mage/assassin who used three abilities would get more damage out of DFT, and this offers only damage.

Windspeaker's is obviously better for a passive support, and Stormraider's is obviously better for assassins and bursty characters since most of them shouldn't need what is essentially a downgraded luden's echo passive on a longer cooldown, but should need to not stick around after they nuke someone's face. This includes autoattackers too, since any one of them that would benefit from extra burst would benefit more from extra mobility.

Any tank who would appreciate the level-scaling damage won't be 18 into cunning.

Especially compared to how powerful other keystones are (Warlord's, DFT, Bond), it's odd to me that there's a keystone which is not only a worse version of DFT, but also has pretty much nobody who would viably take it.

15 Comments

JustMyBassCannon11/13/2015, 9:34:12 PM2 votes

{quoted}

Compared to all the other masteries, even competing keystones, Thunderlord's decree seems somewhat lacking.

and Stormraider's is obviously better for assassins and bursty characters since most of them shouldn't need what is essentially a downgraded luden's echo passive on a longer cooldown

180 +10% AP versus 100 +15% AP, Thunderlord's Decree ends up stronger than Luden's Echo by level 14 unless you're Veigar. It has a longer cooldown than Luden's, but provides the same/more burst damage.

Stormraider's Surge is nice for getting out, but it does nothing to guarantee a kill other than allowing you to chase for a few seconds.

As for comparing it with Deathfire Touch, Stormraider's Surge is going to provide more burst damage at any stage of the game. Deathfire Touch has 10% more AP scaling over 3 seconds at the cost of 5-175 less base damage. You need 50(+100 per level) AP for Deathfire Touch's damage over time to match the burst of Thunderlord's Decree.

"But it has no cooldown!"

Yeah, you're right, Deathfire Touch has no cooldown. Ideally, if you can space out the damage over time, you could get 7.5-15 +30-60% AP damage on your basic spells. Or if you're a DoT mage, it's obviously stronger because of it being extended by the nature of your spells.

But for regular burst mages, Deathfire Touch is not going to work well, because your champion wants to throw all of their damaging spells at the same time. The goal is to blow their health meter off the map immediately. Waiting 3 seconds per spell to get the full damage of DFT is not in your best interest. Throwing all 3 spells at the same time and getting bonus burst damage, on the other hand, is most definitely what you want.

Again, I understand why DFT is considered good. I mean, my favorite mage is Brand, so I would hope that I could understand why people think it's amazing. But I wouldn't take that same enthusiasm and apply it to, say, Lux, who would definitely enjoy extra free burst on her Q-R wombo delete.

SlappaDaAssMon11/13/2015, 8:34:12 PM1 votes

I take it on bursty champs.

Mimy11/13/2015, 8:36:08 PM1 votes

Teemo if you decide to go that path.

other than that he does well with Fervor of battle for being a marksman. I would probably also take it on Kennen but he too scales well with fevor of battle aswell as deathfire torch

Teemo however does not do well with DFT only his Q procs it

Gigahappytown11/13/2015, 8:36:50 PM1 votes

thunderlords decree can deal upwards of 250 damage mid and on some champs 400 bonus damage but the common maximum damage from thunderlords is 300 thats huge

i was only level 15 and had 474 ap and thunderlords decree was dealing 250 damage

Betoldia Prime11/13/2015, 8:40:50 PM1 votes

I put it on my damage supports that CANT burst down my enemies, like zilean and sona, because its a health damage boost tha also aplies to teamfights :) although, it also depends on my team, because if we lack heals, then obviously im gonna take the other one

Hyrum Graff11/13/2015, 8:49:52 PM1 votes

You can take thunderlords and also get 45% cdr. If you go deathfire, yeah you get %pen, but you give up the cdr.

OverpoweredSoap11/13/2015, 8:50:57 PM1 votes

I take it on AP supports tbh.

Karma Sona Nami (if I'm going ap) etc.

QuincyMcCoy11/13/2015, 9:04:10 PM1 votes

With Velkoz, it makes his already good burst even more insane. W+E combo = a guarenteed kill on any squishy lategame. And Velkoz can itemize for Mpen, so that makes the CDR extremely powerful on him as well. Remember, a whole lot of his damage is true damage from the passive, and procing that faster makes him extremely powerful. Add in even more base damage from thunderlords, and you got yourself a champ that can burst pretty much anyone. And if you can't burst their tank, Lyandries is going to rip a hole in them.

Dominick Destine11/13/2015, 9:13:11 PM1 votes

I am extremely experienced with Evelynn and am Diamond tier. Thunderlord's Decree is the best Keystone for Evelynn... it triggers very quickly during your burst (Hate Spike/Ravage) and strongly benefits assassinations.

Deathfire Touch does not have per level bonus damage, meaning even if you have 700 AP, it only becomes 140 damage over 3 seconds (46 magic damage per second, AT 700 AP), whereas even with 0 AP, at level 14 you will have 140 damage burst with TLD.

TDL > DFT on Evelynn

Korillo11/13/2015, 9:18:10 PM1 votes

I take it on Vladimir . Stormraider's is ok on him as well, but the damage from Thunderlord's decree is better in my experience. The cunning tree is great for Vlad because I can get him to 45% CDR now which is amazing.

I tried Deathfire touch and the damage was underwhelming. It also really hurt my harass damage when the enemy was under tower, as I can usually get a Q / E combo, or at least a Q off, back out and do it again against an enemy champion without taking a tower hit. But with Deathfire touch the Dot was getting me turret aggro before doing the next combo, which was annoying.

Honestly though the keystones available for AP champions feel really underwhelming.

linkmastr00111/13/2015, 9:20:54 PM1 votes

Jax and Kayle immediately come to mind.

Enosetc11/13/2015, 8:34:05 PM1 votes

tbh, i like it on lux since it procs when she procs her passive

crazydanddgnat11/13/2015, 11:49:48 PM1 votes

Well I see that I was entirely wrong.

Honestly I still think it's too weak to justify the 30 second cooldown (especially on lux, since people are talking about her, if you're proccing her passive you should get MASSIVELY more damage out of DFT since it procs, even as AoE, though I can see TD if you're using it solely for mid-lategame burst and don't care about poke), but I think it says good things about the new mastery system that people disagree with me.

As an aside, people forget that so long as you space your spells slightly that 10% scaling boost from DFT becomes massive once you have an item or two, and since I've always considered masteries to be an early game sort of deal being able to win trades harder seems pretty cool to me, which is why I don't really like TD since it shouldn't really outpace DFT for a while provided you have only ap quints and a dorans).