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Meddler addresses high damage, doesn't understand what the community is saying

JPizzle132·7/31/2018, 6:29:13 PM·140 votes·29,666 views

From Meddler's July 27 notes in the Dev Corner

That combination of some tanks (jungle and top struggling) and lower general appeal means metas occur, such as the present one, where there are few tanks being played. That contributes to damage feeling high for a couple of reasons. Teams without tanks lack a front line, so tend to get burst more due to the lack of soak/zoning. Metas without tanks also mean it's more likely that each team has 4, or even 5, damage threats on it as well though, especially if enchanters (the main other non damage group) are also being played less. Even if any individual champion’s damage isn’t any higher the game's going to feel much more lethal when there are 1, or even 2, more high damage champs per team.

Ok yea less tanks means a feeling of more damage in team fights, but this isn't what we are referring to when we say damage is too high. Now when i'm getting 1 shot by a 6/0 khazix 3 levels up and our team doesn't have a tank, sure that's our fault and I'm ok with that.

What we are referring to are 1v1 situations where a 0/0/0 level 3 champion can 1 shot you from 100% health if they land for example just 1 stun. No longer can you strategize (which is a big part of what makes league fun) after he lands his combo and say "ok now I should farm under turret and wait for my jungler" or "I should back and give up a wave since I lost that trade pretty badly". You just die instantly.

If you think I'm exaggerating, let's take lvl 3 Brand vs Caitlyn

Caitlyn lvl 3
615 + 80 (from item 1055 ) health 30 MR 33 armor

Brand lvl 3 AD 63 AP 35 (15 from item 1056 and 20 from sorcery)

Brand Passive: 174 damage (12% + 13% max health as AP damage) Brand E: 70 +12 (from AP) damage Brand Q: 80 + 19 (from AP) Brand W: 75 + 21 (from AP) + 25% total W damage Scorch: 30 Arcane Comet: 38 + 7 (from AP) ignite: 130 2 autos (assuming you can get 2 autos in with your combo which is reasonable): 126

Add that up: 704 Magic damage from everything before ignite 126 AD from autos 130 true damage from ignite

Minus resistances: Caitlyn takes 539 magic damage (23.5% reduced from magic damage) 94.5 AD (25% reduced damage from AD) 130 ignite

Let's assume Caitlyn even has summoner 7 luckily!

695 health + 78 health from summoner 7 (assuming grevious wounds from ignite)- 763 damage from brand = 10 hp Caitlyn in ONE SINGLE COMBO

Ok sorry he didn't one shot her from full health with heal in one combo. So I guess you can strategize against it. ** You can miss a wave and back every time brand or even a single minon hits you with 1 auto, otherwise the next combo will kill you, you're feeding and it's your fault not the balancing team's.**

PS Before I get these types of responses, obviously you can dodge brand's abilities but i'm saying if he does hit his full combo, which basically comes down to landing his stun which isn't some ridiculous possibility.

Also caitlyn would probably have heal which would BARELY save her (again this is already assuming you are FULL HEALTH), but that's just one example. The health + resistances are about the same for atleast 50 other champions that would take ignite over heal and then would just die.

IMO from even the most bursty champions, at lvl 3 0/0/0 one combo + ignite should do around 65% health, maximum. Not 99% health after healing which is what this calculation came to without exaggeration.

Edit: I guess I somehow forgot passive damage, so actually she died without heal lol. I edited the post for that. This is what I had gotten before, just to provide context for some of the replies:

695 health - 647 damage from brand = 48 health caitlyn

120 Comments

Beatrice falls7/31/2018, 6:47:06 PM105 votes

Bruh they have no idea what they're saying. I've read another Rioters post here on the boards saying "overall damage hasn't changed throughout the years, because according to the datas, everyone deal almost the same damage per game". No shit everyone would deal the same during a game if they have roughly the same max hp, the issue is receiving these damage in 0.1sec, or people dealing true damage with their kits when they aren't supposed to deal true damage.

Vekkna7/31/2018, 7:25:55 PM29 votes

You forgot the 134 damage Brand's passive deals at level 3 (assuming 0 AP) after being reduced by Cait's MR.

Also, Comet only scales off bonus AD, not base AD.

Bob the Toastr7/31/2018, 9:56:54 PM14 votes

You forgot Brand passive, which would turn the combo into a 1-shot

Verxint8/1/2018, 4:19:42 AM11 votes

I like the backwards logic "Tanks aren't being played so it'll make damage seem higher" No, tanks aren't allowed to live more than 4 seconds because of how much damage their is.

Tanks have been mediocre in the jungle for a while (save a few exceptions) because you have so much damage that you can usually gank someone by literally killing them before they reach their tower. It used to be tanks had the best ganks because they gave you so much time to kill the guy before he escaped

It's not that less tanks makes their appear to be more damage. It's that there's so much damage tanks serve no purpose anymore so people don't play them.

pryda0228/1/2018, 2:45:32 AM7 votes

they understand what people are saying they just choose to ignore it

HungryAngry2SPP7/31/2018, 10:55:07 PM7 votes

You forgot passive, so technically it was a kill

King I Rat8/1/2018, 2:50:54 AM6 votes

This is the reason I don't have much faith for Season 9. It's the only thing that might be able to save league but it's clear that the balance team are either inept or have a deep seated hatered for us and are ready to kill the game and lose their jobs to spite us. It's unreal how disconnected the balance/gameplay teams are from the actual game and the absolute refusal to take the grievances from even the most well established players seriously. The game is dying, the playerbase is leaving and people who have been faithful to the game for 8+ years have lost all hope and are moving on to other game cause League legit makes them depressed. How fucking sad.

AtheosisX8/1/2018, 6:30:32 AM4 votes

Most high elo players are saying there's damage creep and too much burst. Pretty much everyone who plays the game is saying this. The arrogance of Riot these days is just sickening.

Aram Mama 8/1/2018, 5:51:35 PM4 votes

Can this guy get that we are literally saying: " THERE IS SO MUCH DAMAGE IN THE GAME!!" , like stop going around the topic just acknowledge that there its a simple statement and its true! Doesent matter if tanks as a role are played at all or not its that Zed and any other assassin and mage can just oneshot you in 0.4 seconds. Fights are short, games snowbally,towers are way too weak!

PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY TELLING THEM THIS SHIT AND THEY CANT UNDERSTAND! BUFF TOWERS ; SLOW DOWN GAME ; NERF DAMAGE OVER THE BOARD!

its not even that hard to do but they REFUSE to do it!

woodvsmurph7/31/2018, 6:53:19 PM4 votes

And just so people don't use this as warcry for over-buffing adc's and/or crit adc's specifically, let's do one for bruiser vs crit adc in spring split. You know where adc right clicked anyone but malphite 5x and killed them.

Yes damage is stupid high in many scenarios. And it changes trading patterns and sometimes even which side wins a duel at different points of the game; with dps vs burst champ for example. The dps champ might have a decent chance in past, but now just gets nuked before their dmg matters enough to "trade even" or vice versa; dps champ can have such high dps that burst champ no longer lives long enough to get off that one extra combo and win the duel.

I understand the pain adc's had experienced recently, but they've gotten a ton of help thrown their way now or very shortly on the way. And as for your scenario... cait shouldn't be getting hit by brand's full combo at level 3 if should EVER be getting full combo'd. Sidestep, long range, net, traps. Plenty of tools to dodge out on SOME of the damage and to discourage him playing so agro by hitting him with reliable dps albeit nothing as bursty as what he puts out.

saltran7/31/2018, 8:19:33 PM3 votes

Not that I disagree, but is also needed to say that Piltover's Finest is lterally the adc with LOWER base hp in the game, even less than Ezreal.

Maiocco8/1/2018, 7:22:00 AM3 votes

Damage stayed the same, but game time has dropped signifcantly. So, damage per minute has for sure gone up the last years, especially after runes reforged, where we lost a lot of defensive stats.

Saianna8/1/2018, 2:28:17 PM2 votes

Why is anyone surprised? Meddler is detached from the game since ages. I don't even know what exactly he leads in the Riot studio.

Zullar8/2/2018, 8:56:17 PM2 votes

Damage is way too high right now. For example MF Auto + Q will instakill most non-tanks (or in this video just a single auto without a Q kills a Lv18 full health target). Not even full build! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hva7fEXl1Y

All damage dealers (including supports) can basically 100->0 in one combo anybody who's not a tank. It's completely out of line... and adding more front loaded damage like Stormrazor is not helping.

Zed can miss all his ability and kill somebody with ult + 1 auto. It's not OK.

Every mage damage keystone is single target burst. Why do we need multiple single target burst keystones? Where's the sustained DPS or AOE mage keystone like deathfire?

Also mobility is out of control. Try playing any immobile ADC's... mobility is so high you cannot position well and be safe. You are 100% reliant on your team to peel. Mobility AND pealing power both need to be reduced to put some power back into positioning well.

Looking at itemization. I think the fundamental issue is that all stats compound. Offensive stats like attack speed, damage, crit chance all compound together. Defensive stats like health armor/resist all compound together. So most people are fully one way (all offensive items) or the other (all defensive items). There's no incentive to be somewhere in the middle. You never see an ADC with with 2 offensive items and 3 defensive items... it would put you at a big disadvantage with the current itemization.

So what happens when you have most people building full offense, you have a bunch of front loaded damage items (Stormrazor/Luden's), and a bunch of front loaded burst damage keystones (electrocute, dark harvest)? You end up with everybody instakiling everybody else.

Combine this extreme burst damage with extreme mobility creep and the state of the game is not good right now.

Neptunia xoxo8/1/2018, 3:04:21 AM1 votes

I think you might be BSing here bro. Brand cannot 100-0 you at level 3 with just dorans even if he lands his entire combo with ignite and autos.