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Why do you think Talon was nerfed?

forist·11/8/2014, 7:22:25 AM·1 votes·916 views

Since riot hasn't shown any initiative or even response to the questions about Talon's recent nerfs on these boards. I would like to ask the player-base what they think. Why do you think they nerfed a champ who's kit had been practically untouched for 2 years? What made riot decide that a one second silence that had been around for so long had no counter play all of the sudden? Lemme know what you think.

Note: when i say the phrase "player-base" I mean summoners that have both played talon and played against him, I'm tired of listening to people spout about how he had no counter-play or a free silence or had guaranteed kills. I want to hear from people who actually know what they are talking about, and not from people who qq because they got smashed in lane by a better player, but never bothered to learn the champ that they assume is op. If you don't play a champ please don't offer your input on said champion, and before anyone asks, yes I have played a lot of Talon, and do in fact consider him to be my main.

24 Comments

NoMonku11/8/2014, 9:33:24 AM3 votes

The way it sounds is that you don't want to listen to the "real" reason that it got removed. RIOT has been transitioning out silences from assassins recently, LB being the main one I remember. I felt it was broken though, a Q into chain + another chain = 4 +ish seconds of CC with a silence so you can't even flash or use an escape ability (if you had one) and she would just easy snowball her lane from 0 counterplay.

RIOT has really been pushing counterplay and silences have imo been one of the CC's that has been underrated for awhile. Old Soraka could Silence you for DAYS and will it doesn't hurt auto attackers TOO much, it is basically death for everyone else who isn't tanky. Actually Silences in general have been getting phased out as they are pretty strong. Talon losing his silence was because it was some "invisible" power that could be removed without actually taking too much away from his core gameplay and nerfing his #'s(by this I mean damage). In regards to Talons silence, I never felt it offered too much to stop him from being able to kill me if he was already going to be able to kill me or for me to turn on him after he jumped in and kill him, so I feel this is also a reason why it is gone. Oh, I am an ADC main so I'm speaking of it in most cases going against him as one, as it is my easiest way of thinking about it. He'd either jump me and kill me or I'd survive his intial burst and be able to kite him to death, despite being able to flash/dash away, so it hasn't changed too much except being able to secure those early kills possibly which would allow him to snowball.

My main issue with his E being changed is they haven't given it a new name yet, since he isn't cutting anyones throat anymore -_-.

forist11/8/2014, 10:56:37 PM2 votes

Hmmm.... so basically that LCS team won because their talon used his ability correctly, making a good play to kill a high priority target? I really fail to see how this is any different from a player playing zed and getting close enough to press r on a carry, auto, w, e, q, botrk, then pressing r again effectively killing the carry and escaping back to safety, but whatever zed's play probably looked 10 times flashier so there's that.

Still working on some new names for talon's e... how about: "shadow toe stomp" or "short cripple" or "Your shoes untied!" or "Stand in front of Talon!"..... I think I'll keep working one those though. -.-

forist11/8/2014, 11:37:46 PM1 votes

^^ You're on point bro, I can definitely see how this makes sense from riot's point of view, but I just don't think this whole consistency ploy is worth all the collateral damage Talon is getting. I guess they are just doing what they usually do, and ignoring most of the player feedback, which is nothing new. -.-

Sightless6611/9/2014, 12:25:47 AM1 votes

Why do you think they nerfed a champ who's kit had been practically untouched for 2 years

Other champions got nerfed enough that what used to be a substandard pick became strong. This is the result of game balance that is mainly nerf-focused. Things get weaker, so previously weak things become good.

What made riot decide that a one second silence that had been around for so long had no counter play all of the sudden?

They always thought it was low-counterplay. Talon was just never considered strong enough to justify nerfing. Not worth nerfing something to have counterplay if it's just generally weak. Then, he wasn't weak anymore. Then, he was strong. Then, competitive play. Then, nerfs.

I used to play Talon a bit back in season 3 (I got interested after trying him during League of Cleavers), but I don't play him that much anymore. The thing is, when Talon is fed, it pretty much just meant I could keep snowballing kills, and no one could really stop me. I could just jump on someone and instantly delete them and that person couldn't do anything about it. Hell, given the speed of the combo and the ease of hitting it, their allies couldn't really do anything to save them either. It's about as much of a guarantee of one person being dead as you can get. And yeah, some other assassins can do that, but rarely so guaranteed or with no skillshots or anything that can be dodged (I guess Rake technically can be, but realistically it's pretty guaranteed after you jump in).

He could probably do with a small buff to make up for it. Probably won't get it though. Probably will take a couple nerf rounds to other guys before he's good again. Might not be too necessary though. He still brings other things to the table. Hard to say.

forist11/11/2014, 7:03:51 AM1 votes

Ok, fair enough.... we'll leave it to the really good talon players to decide. I don't consider myself good, since i only main him and am low gold elo, but I have a feeling that I understand this champ way more than anyone who plays him casually, and that's why I can't understand your opinions on him. They just seem blatantly wrong to me. Which is fine, people can disagree... that's what forums are for, I was just kind of hoping for more than 2 other people's opinions on this thread. Both of them seeming highly inaccurate, and ignorant to me.

ModKnightsKemplar11/8/2014, 11:30:29 PM1 votes

The thing that brought it to their attention was it getting picked in pros. It was after Voyboy and others started playing it (that was the person I saw play it first, not necessarily the first) that Riot did something about it.

I think they didn't want to see him become the new Kass/LeBlanc when they had already worked hard to get rid of that. They wanted to be consistent with their ruling about no silences on assassins; honestly, the decision is more about what they did to LB and Kass than about Talon. I haven't played him since the changes, because I think he'll be weak without it. So, full discolsure, haven't played him since, but I think with a few small buffs somewhere to compensate he'll be okay again.

Featherztorm11/8/2014, 8:20:47 AM1 votes

All assassin's that have had a silence got them removed with riots next step forward in game play, talon was just at the bottom of the list.