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[Discussion] Maybe the problem isn't Jinx, food for thought:

ScreamPaste·4/21/2015, 8:56:38 PM·41 votes·2,888 views

So I don't think the problem is with Jinx herself. She's recently become stronger in soloQ and a lot of people have been complaining. Let's consider why.

My thoughts on the matter are simple; it's not Jinx herself that is inherently too strong, it's the tank meta. The tank meta allows Jinx to surround herself with unkillable, hard peeling tanks, so that she can do Jinx things at your team. This covers her greatest and most exploitable weakness: squishy immobility with no reliable self peel whatsoever.

It doesn't matter, though, when she is surrounded by Nautilus, Sejuani, Hec, and Maokai. You simply can't get to her, and you can't kill the rest of her team. That, imho, is why Jinx is strong right now, I do not believe she is that strong inherently. Food for thought.

Opinions?

51 Comments

Sir Yamazuki4/21/2015, 9:15:09 PM35 votes

Nope, she had high pick rate and win rate before tank changes and cinder came out, so it has nothing to do with tanks. She has had those stats for a long time.

FantasySniper4/21/2015, 10:22:49 PM15 votes

{quoted}

She's recently become stronger in soloQ

recently become stronger

recently

Nope. She's always been strong, tbh.

If anything about what you said were true, Varus and Kog'Maw would be having a field day.

ScreamPaste4/21/2015, 9:18:30 PM11 votes

Why am I being downvoted for trying to have a discussion? Lol.

Kouga4/21/2015, 9:57:38 PM4 votes

The same reason that Kog is seeing high tier play and has been banned - the dip in burst damage presence from the lowered tanks lets immobile or unsafe, high-damage carries survive long enough to deal their damage without being instagibbed.

Bemapon4/21/2015, 9:02:51 PM3 votes

I had the same problem vs a Cait. Nobody could get close to her. Personally I don't even see Jinx played all the often, and when I do its nothing special.

salće4/21/2015, 9:24:47 PM3 votes

I main Jinx, and honestly I think she is top tier right now. Everyone complain about her lack of escape, but she has so much more that she can depend on. He has high DPS and has a lot of poke. Usually with one item I'm able to come back into lane and put down a crazy amount of damage. Also, if I have a Support who knows how to combo with my chompers, I am able to most likely get a kill. On top of that she has crazy range with her rockets, and shes an ADC with a built in slow and stun (chompers), if used correctly, she can kill you before the slow even wares off.

Sire Hippington4/21/2015, 10:44:01 PM3 votes

It's more a problem of jinx. Befor the 'tank meta', there were other ways to peel like a lulu mid, mao top and janna support. you always had ways to keep an carry save if you want, and her win+pickrate was incredible high long befor cinderhulk came.

The porblem of jinx simply is that she's insanly unforgiving once a fight goes her way. That passive combined with the high range combined with a powerfull global finisher, waveclear and poke, combined with probably the highest dps vs objectives(atleast structures) allows her to turn nearly any won teamfight into a massacer followed by multiple objektives. And for the defastatuon-potential, her laneing simply is to potent.

Earl Eulrich4/21/2015, 11:22:37 PM3 votes

it´s not recently, it´s pretty much since she got released. She´s just a snowbally Champ in lane and in Teamfights...especially since her dmg is even more RNG-based than on other carries. If IE rushing jinx gets lucky in an early teamfight only 1 AoE-Crit can just snowball the whole game out of hand without involving much gameplay other than rightclicking and being in 700range of Jinx. So yea, it´s not entirly on Jinx herself, but she still has a too good laningphase considering her lategame-potential, the passive is too strong in success-cases and (AoE-)Crits just need to change.

thinking man4/21/2015, 11:26:20 PM3 votes

It must've been the assassin meta as well since she had this winrate during that meta too.

Budupops4/22/2015, 1:26:52 AM3 votes

has had 55% win rate for 2 years now, Jinx main detected

Only Play Darius4/23/2015, 8:02:10 AM3 votes

I believe the problem is that the other late game, long range, high attack speed ADC (Tristana) got her winrate destroyed.

My theory is that many Tristana players also play Jinx because of their similarities. Now that Tristana is where she is now, all the Tristana players have moved to Jinx exclusively (including me).

Drunk Rummate4/23/2015, 6:28:50 PM3 votes

Jinx hate is just flavor of the month. It's an endless cycle on these forums. I'm genuinely surprised we aren't see complains about Luden's Echo Kog Maw yet, but those will be coming next I'm sure.

YOU BEEN WARNED4/22/2015, 6:19:16 AM2 votes

No, Jinx 's winrate and popularity started way back before item 3751.

I came in this thread expecting you to say that the state of the ADC class is still overbearing.

I was disappointed.

Erockandroll4/21/2015, 9:54:08 PM2 votes

I feel like these nerfs are targeted towards the LCS. A lot of Jinx plays in the LCS would just throw their rockets out for the blanket damage.

Boards will still complain about Jinx because her core scaling is unchanged.

ChaoticPinecone4/22/2015, 5:36:48 AM2 votes

no, the problem isnt the tank meta. sure, its a factor, but the problem is jinx herself. She can choose between a massive attack speed boost or super long range AOE autoattacks. she has self peel with her chompers. she has a nuke-ish slow. she has a execution ult. and she has a ridiculous movespeed passive once one person goes down.

think of the other hypercarries. Kogmaw - solid attack speed boost, but not massive. more single target damage and range for 8 seconds, but less for the next 9. has a slow that does no damage when you build ADC, but is AOE. ult does little damage when built ADC. one of the few super-immoble (no blink, dash, or movespeed buff) champions in the game with 0 hard CC - the others being nasus and olaf. MF is a weird case with her movespeed buff.

vayne - has great self peel and chasing power, but is short ranged. more damage in extended fights to tanks (depending). huge damage buff on ult, but her true damage is tied to attack speed.

tristana - needs items (now more than ever) to be relevent. Lower damage output most game. Tied for best self CC of any ADC (the other being Ashe).

Caitlyn - only a hypercarry when you have 6 items, including a double phantom dancer. and even then, you do less damage than any of the other hypercarries with the same build.

in other words, she is safer than the other hypercarries without having the most glaring of drawbacks, mainly being Range and Mobility. She also sclaes pretty well all game - she doesnt have a super weak early game or weak mid to be a lategame monster.

Fewtas4/22/2015, 6:05:48 AM2 votes

I have a couple of friends who play Jinx a lot, just because of how she works and I have to say its a mixture of the current meta and her inherent strength. People keep on trying to compare Jinx to other ADC's like Vayne and Kog'maw, but the problem with that is that Jinx is much more snowbally in lane, easily becoming a problem. Along with that, due to her high damage and attack speed, she doesn't have as much a problem with tanks, even though there is ADC's meant for killing tanks.

Saixos4/21/2015, 9:20:05 PM2 votes

I do have a problem with Jinx, I find her to be the AD carry which I find most frustrating to play against.

Jinx is without a doubt a hypercarry. Any ADC who can deal AOE damage from 700 range on autoattacks is definitely a hypercarry, not to mention her attack speed buff in minigun is better than tristana's q, and while it has a warmup that warmup decreases with attack speed and it doesn't have an overall cooldown.

The other ADCs I regard as hypercarries are Vayne, Kog'maw, and Tristana.

Comparing Jinx to those 3, the main point which bothers me is that Jinx has a comparatively strong early game. All 3 of those hypercarrys are quite vulnerable in the early game, yet Jinx far less so. And she snowballs incredibly hard. That's something I really don't like.

Most ADCs have a nice pattern of when they're usually strong and weak. Vayne starts very weak and ends up scaling upwards very harshly, yet at the very end can have a bit of a downwards curve due to her range. Caitlyn is strong early and late, yet is very weak in the mid game. Ezreal starts medium-weak and then gets incredibly strong mid game going down to slightly above average ADC level late game.

Jinx doesn't follow that pattern. She's mediocre in the early game, strong in the mid game, and then very strong in the late game. She never really has a weak point compared to some of the other ADCs, she just continuously gets stronger and stronger while having an already decent starting point.

Minrog4/22/2015, 1:59:33 PM2 votes

I think you're right OP, but not for Solo Queue. Last year Jinx had like a 45% win rate in the LCS, because every team had multiple assassins and she had no way to avoid being deleted instantly. You had to use Graves/Lucian/Corki if you wanted to survive the Kha'zix/LeBlanc or Lee Sin/Zed double teams.

I don't think this really applies to Solo Queue, where her win rate has been pretty steady. They are too disorganized to dive/protect the back line so it's not like she's getting peeled for in her matches.

Landing her Zap! skill requires that the enemy champion already be CC'ed, nobody is going to notice if they nerf that. Get Excited is underwhelming too, a janitor skill for chasing, so nerfs there won't do much to her. It's really down to her Chompers, her autos, and her ultimate. I just hope they don't Warwick her (I like her stylistically, I don't play her though).

Celeste Benal4/22/2015, 5:12:14 PM2 votes

:nods:

The first champ I ever bought was Jinx. During the season 4 assassin meta, she was harder to play because of her lack of mobility/escapes compared to most assassins and ADCs with better projection and mobility. With more tanks (and thus CC) running around the Rift she has a better chance of staying alive long enough to have an impact on the game.

Some folks are talking about how she is OP because she can swap between AS-boosted pow-pow or LR fishbones. But remember she has given up a skill slot for that.

Her Get Excited passive is mostly underwhelming and very situational. Something has to die before it procs, and then its active for only a few seconds. Last I checked, an ADC doesn't generally want to suddenly run up to the front line if 1 of the 5 enemies has died. It does function as a nice escape when low after a fight, or as a way to enable a finish. But otherwise, her mobility is certainly no better than average, if even that.

Her ranges effect her dps. If you want the high-dps she has to get into much closer range. If you want the range, you lose dps. You also can't spam rockets early because her base mana pool is very small.

One thing I agree with is that she has the potential to snowball hard. But if its my pick and the opposing team has already picked Leona, Blitzcrank, Shaco, Graves, Vi, Zed, Leblanc, or Corki for example, I'm not inclined to pick Jinx. Especially Zed. He pretty much insta-gibs Jinx in every fight. And a single grab from blitz is guaranteed death.

Imo, Jinx is the least of our worries. Its just that the current tankier meta benefits late-game hyper carries. So she is seeing more use. However, her win rate is stable.

http://www.lolking.net/champions/jinx&region=all&map=sr&queue=1x1#statistics

Linna Excel4/21/2015, 9:59:21 PM1 votes

Okay, I think the tank meta might be a part of it, but more because her ult can finish off a pesky tank quickly. My question for you is why do you think she does better in a tank meta than other ADCs? You'd think Vayne would reign supreme because of her W or twitch/kog/cait because of their range and the ability to shred tanks at long range.

I'm thinking that Jinx's main strength is she's got 2 forms of self peel. Most other ADCs don't have that and need to hope their team can do the job. Sivir is doing as well and I think that's because she can E block the other team's CC in addition to pushing and having the R as an engage or as an escape.

AetherKingdom4/21/2015, 10:21:48 PM1 votes

But it's easier to nerf jinx to an acceptable level than nerf all the champions that surround her

NoMonku4/22/2015, 8:12:57 AM1 votes

I feel Jinx is on the stronger side, mainly because she is one of the only two long range lategame hyper carries left in the game that don't have crap early games (RIP Tristana Twitch ). The other one is Kog. Anyways, it is slightly true that she is stronger with the tank meta, but because of the tank meta, the ADC's that can dump on her aren't worth taking because they won't be able to kill the tanks late game, which causes the problem I feel. Yes, they might be able to dump on her in lane if they know what they are doing, but one mistake and she is ahead, basically resulting in you not being able to fight back and just resulting into a longer dragged out game, barring a misplay on her teams part.

Solidair34/21/2015, 11:40:39 PM1 votes

That's part of it, but the other hyper carry adcs with a weakness of having weak self peel, (Vayne, Kog, etc) have not been having NEARLY the same success. So if you're trying to tell me that's a coincidence, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure she started her rise to prominence before the tank patch.

Curling Veigar4/21/2015, 11:57:04 PM1 votes

She has had the same WR ever since she was released.

Please keep trying to defend your freelo.

Onegarion4/23/2015, 8:06:47 AM1 votes

Jinx is really strong because she takes objectives. Its really simple. She is the queen of objectives and thats how you win games. She scales extremely well into the late game. She can be hurt early and still come back off a couple kills.

The tank meta has made it even safer for jinx, but its not why she is really strong. In lane there are a few ways to beat her, but many of the champs aren't played as much. Leona has always been a strong counter to jinx because jinx isn't going anywhere when you get to her. If you have a burst champ she is as good as dead with the leo. The same idea applies to jinx in all hooks and hard CC. If Jinx gets locked down she isn't going anywhere being the immobile adc. You have a time/gold limit that you have to end the game by or Jinx will outscale you and if she doesn't die she will end you and the game.

metaworldpeace104/22/2015, 7:34:51 AM1 votes

Ya I agree with the majority of these posters here. Jinx' rise in popularity is a lie. She's had a win rate between 51-55% over the course of the past year. Her scaling is not smooth at all. She survives until level 6 and can all in at anytime. You can't even sit in lane with half hp against a jinx or else she will all in you and kill you. When you respawn and get to lane? She all ins you again because her ult is up again. Jinx needs nerfs, this is not news. The reason people think it's news is because she's been played in the LCS

Saianna4/23/2015, 7:59:07 AM1 votes

I'd say it isn't Jinx fault for being too strong, but other ADCs to be too weak (xcept cait, graves).

She's picked cause she can do things other ADCs can't. Like killing.

Aych Pii4/22/2015, 1:28:22 PM1 votes

By that logic MissFortune should be just as strong as Jinx in this meta, but I don't really think we'll be seeing much of her. Jinx actually has much more mobility and self-peel than MF, even.