Being placed with players who are worse just because you're on a winstreak feels unfair

V2msRHouI0·10/29/2016, 11:27:08 PM·279 votes·14,919 views

When I do well in ranked and go on a winning streak, Riot feels the need to challenge me. Now if they would match me AGAINST better players, that would be completely fine. But I don't feel like I'm losing cause I can't beat the better players I'm matched against. I feel, almost every single game after a good winstreak when Riot wants me down and out of their league, that I lose because I got god awful teams. When your toplaner goes 0/10 in 20 minutes its not YOU that is bad, and its not YOU that should be punished for it, yet this is how it is. Climbing doesn't feel like climbing as much as it feels like crawling out of a closing hole, you have to get out while you can or it will swallow you. Just my two cents.

159 Comments

Spoofghoul10/29/2016, 11:53:07 PM80 votes

Been like this for ages now

and it makes 0 sense

rather then having you climb the ladder it drops potato's in your team and challengers in the other and then tells you to git gut and carry

6Sfool10/29/2016, 11:45:17 PM25 votes

I feel like this happens in normals too. I tend to win and lose in groups of 10, no matter how I do myself.

MunchCrunchLunch10/30/2016, 1:39:36 AM16 votes

they do this bullshit to keep your w/r at 50% . its absurd. i won 17/20 games last week. what happens. i LOSE 5 GAMES in a row. 5 DAMN GAMES you know why? because i get matched with negative winrate folks. folks that lost 7-10+ games in a row. its ridiculous and fraustrating. in all of those games that i lost. those 5 games. i had the most gold farm and damage on the team. meanwhile everyone else is like bronze goign against a diamond. 0/7 and what not in lane

i get an adc. that does 7k damage in a 40 minute game. 7k damage. next game i go 18/4 and lose. two team mates died 14 times. nobody on my team did half my damage. next game 1/7 top laner. next game a jungler with less than 2 farm per minute that went 1/9. and then a full ap zac. like please stahp riot

absurd. absurd matchmaking.

FallenAngel1610/30/2016, 9:25:48 AM16 votes

this is actually a nature of elo systems and cant really be fixed

whats happening is your MMR / elo is increasing. so the system assumes your really good. so it matches you with teammates that are less than you to "equalize" the teams MMR and match it with another teams MMR

but what ends up happening is, as you win alot, eventually youll get teams where EVERYONE is absolutely terrible compared to you. and the reason is because you are the highest MMR on the team and to equalize it the system gives you all teammates with lower MMR than you

this happens when you reach a point where your the highest MMR on the team. it will seem like everyone else on your team is trash, because they are compared to you, since your the highest mmr

and then next. the reason your toplaner does 0-10 by 15 minutes is because the MMR system to balance team MMR probably has a enemy team WITHOUT someone on a win streak, meaning the whole enemy team is fairly balanced in their MMR level meaning your toplaners MMR will definitely be BELOW their toplaners MMR, since your higher MMR offsets the mmr calculation and gives you a toplaner with LOWER MMR

think of it this way. very basic way to explain it. but its basically like it

entire enemy team has 20 MMR per player

you have 60 MMR. and your teammates each have 10 MMR

both teams will average out to 100 MMR per team

however, because your toplaner has 10 MMR, and their toplaner has 20 MMR, you can expect your toplaner goes 0-15 and you have literally zero chance to win a game of league if the enemy toplaner is 15-0. its basically impossible to carry that

so while your 60 MMR will let you win your lane, the truth is in league you cant "win lane harder". you just win lane. so you win your lane, and the enemy team has 3 winning positions. so your 1 winning position cannot carry VS the enemies 3 winning positions (and the 4 positions are jungle, mid, top, and ADC-SUPP)

strut10/30/2016, 11:55:28 AM11 votes

i can't see how intentionally pulling back players is a fair element of ranked matchmaking. It doesn't make any sense.Just match me up with people on the same level so we can have a nice fair game and decide who is better without having to deal with bullshit.

COBRA C0MM4NDER10/30/2016, 3:11:02 AM11 votes

it's a definite pattern. like some sort of weird fucking test.

if you win or get to promos, the system gives you the worst fuckwad teams/players they can dredge up.

the old elo rating system was far better than this trainwreck bullshit...it's made me want to just sue Riot for pain and suffering inflicted by their ranking system. but they have a clause preventing that. but not a class action though.

if enough people pool together under a legal action, I'm sure riot would go 110% to either counter the lawsuit best they could or fix the system.

cyka blyat mudak10/30/2016, 9:21:09 AM10 votes

I am so very tired of that because it happens everytime I try to play this game. The matchmaking is by far and easily the worst I have ever seen in any sort of competitive gameplay and I can't believe RIOT employs and pays a person for this mess. (But then, it's an US-based company, the country where everything's possible; we in Europe would fire such a "game designer", but oh well...)

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/a793y4xzow8.jpg

So, I got 2 premades in my "team" and none of them was cappable of anything. I hold 75% of the kills, the only turrets, 0% of the deaths. I did not choose that, so do not come up with "but you have 0 assist".

I have several concerns with "games" like this:

a) Telling me "MATCH FOUND" is the worst lie ever, because... b) ...the MMR has become useless. My personal skill level (the MMR) in the hand of 4 strangers (80%) is already bogus, and even a toddler would understand it. Now let's put in premade handicaps and other dead-on-arrival experiments RIOT implemented because of idiocy and incompetence, mostly called DYNAMIC QUEUE.

So try to build matches now with an MMR that does literally means nothing. Flipping 5 coins would be as accurate as the "matchmaking" in this game now.

c) This is a computer system. It's not a human that slipped off a line in a chart and could say "Whoops, I accidently put people together that are not supposed to be together". It's programmed like that. It will put EVERYBODY together, divide by 5, done. To "decrease queue time".

I am playing since 2010 and it became worse and worse. When I bought the DVD copy from the store the game took 3:30 minutes for one game in 3x3 Twisted Treeline, but these games were good. The bigger the playerpool became, RIOT wanted to make the queues faster. Sounds contradictory? It is.

d) In the "Matchmaking Round Table" video on Youtube, you can see the source of incompetence talking about "99% of the games in Low ELO are fine". First: That is a blatant lie, I accumulated 25 Screenshots of 0-16 games within 10 minutes - before the snowballing can kick in. Games failed by design. All these games have been played within the last 3-4 weeks, so it's not a collection of RARE TROLL TREAMS or whatever, it's daily business.

The problem RIOT thinks their matchmaking works is - they do not play their own game. They just watch their telemetric datas. When they see their matchmaking builds a 1500vs1495 MMR match, they go "Wooo! We are so good!" in the offices I guess. The problem is stated in point b) - The MMR does not mean anything. They need to play their game finally. Not just reading numbers from afar. (That would also rule out visual bugs and glitches in the game that we need to report 3 months straight, a sign they do not play their own product for good).

S0kaX10/30/2016, 3:17:49 PM8 votes

I'm more than surprised that this thread isn't -90 with comments from haters like "GIT GUD SKRUB"

Unstoppable Monk10/29/2016, 11:35:15 PM8 votes

its also annoying in a gigantic pool of players you're being forced to lose by playing with players an entire metal rank below on your team against a 54%+ average winrate team

as to why silver is flooded with <35% winrate players idk >_>

MonkeyMadness10/30/2016, 3:40:12 AM7 votes

Matchmaking should be the only element of RNG in this game (as long as you are consistently matched with people within ~100mmr of your rank). Instead, Riot would like to completely remove RNG from matchmaking, and add it to fkin plants.

#ritologic

grug10/30/2016, 10:24:26 AM6 votes

its even worse when u get matched with a feeding premade and its outta your control because they will funnel all their resources into helping them and fervently defend their silver 5 friends to the death.

Banuvan10/31/2016, 1:06:03 AM5 votes

Riot has had this philosophy for a while now. It's never going to change. You just have to accept the fact that Riot doesn't want to make the ranked ladder make sense. There have been many suggestions throughout the years and every single one ignored. Personally I think if you are in Silver 4 you should have to play against silver 4 people. If you win it shows you are better than they are. To move into silver 3 you have to win your promos against silver 3 players to prove you belong in there.

Don't get your hopes up though. Riot refuses to make any meaningful changes to how people are ranked. Just look at the shit storm that was/is dynamic queue. I'm willing to bet they lost a ton of revenue and that's the only reason why they are adding duo queue back. Yes, duo queue because a true solo queue ladder would be too logical.

I hate MOBAs10/30/2016, 9:06:56 AM5 votes

DISCLAIMER I am not the best player ever, and I still have a lot of room to improve my self. The following is simply just my opinion on the system over all, based on recent games in the last few weeks. Hell if you check my match history, there are planty of games where I won my lane, and walked out into a mess of players that were way ahead, and started feeding out of control. There are things I my self can do to improve on this, and i'm not stating that I alone do not contribute to the losses, as I do on many occasions, i'm not perfect, but if I lose a game it should be because I lost a fair game. Not because I lost my lane, and then my team mates lost their lanes as well because they're matched with considerably higher rated players. ---- End of Disclaimer.

I've noticed this as well. Went on a massive win streak when I started playing again a 2 weeks or so ago, started in Silver 5 99 LP and got to Gold 5 in a week. Once I hit Gold, I noticed immediately that I hit a brick wall with the games. My teams would get loaded down with Silver 3 / 4 players, and my teams total MMR would based on OP.GG (Which I know isn't entirely accurate but something to look at none the less) be easily 100 to 150 points LESS than the enemies team, which was riddled with Gold 3 - Plat 5 players, and every single lane would get stomped into the ground, because its matching low / mid silver players against mid / high gold, and plat 5. I would end up going even in my lane, losing my lane or even winning, but when it transitioned to team fights, we'd just lose them back to back to back, and I'd go from a game where I left my lane at 1 and 0 or 3 and 1 to games where I end feeding because I can't do anything to any of the players that got fed by the other lanes.

There is no reason that i should get matched with players of lower MMR when mine is getting rated higher because of a hot streak. It shouldn't happen to anyone. Instead of a system that seems to want to STOP your climb at all costs, there should be one that recognizes this, and places you with team mates with similar MMR, so the games are balanced.

Especially since the game has changed a LOT since earlier seasons. I remember when you could get fed to the point you could carry a game completely on your own back in the day, and this system caters to that. Riot has been tuning items and champions so they can't do it, because its unhealthy for the game, yet this system that caters to that form of unhealthy play, is still here. Its not good for competitive play, for a few reasons.

Its not a competitive game, when you match a team of 1300 MMR Silver players, against MMR 1500. Thats not fair competition. If I go on a hot streak, and the average MMR for a player in my League is 1500, but I have an MMR of 1600, I should get matched with players on my team who are ALSO on a hot streak and have 1600, or just regular players with a 1600 MMR, and we should face a team of 1600. THATS competitive play. 2 teams equal in skill facing each other, and as it is right now? It does not work this way.

Its literally a system designed to stop win streaks, in the most unhealthy way possible.

Rossonious10/30/2016, 7:29:01 PM5 votes

It kicks into troll que on me whenever I get above 55% overall winrate not just a streak. It honestly feels like when I que at 55%+ it teleports a drill sergeant into my living room who screams and berates me for being a no good scumbag smurf (I am not), and literally fills my team with people an honest to god full tier below the opposition.

It's bizarre. There aren't enough silver 2s or 3s to fill out my team vs the all golds? That would feel more fair but we'd prob still get wrecked.

But no, it's me at silver 2 and about 57% winrate (this is when it got bad) with 2 unranked (one was 0-4 the other 1-4) a silver 5 (40%) and a bronze 1 (51%) versus 4 gold and one silver. They were 50% or higher across the board.

I carried that matchup with insane nami play. My B1 adc was a stud and I told him I'll take B1s as teammates into freaking Gold. B1s are good man and they've seen some stupid shit. Shoutout to B1 division it's awesome!

Anyways, winning that miracle game was a HUGE mistake. The system KNEW I was a smurf or being boosted (neither) and I got DCs, 20% winrates in multiples, matched with low B vs high G, the full works.

It didn't stop til I was 50% overall and back into B5...

Ive climbed B5 3 times now this season. But none of the plummets compares to that first one. I'm still emotionally damaged.

My drops to B5 were my fault I'll acknowledge that. But rigging the deck causes a lot of negative energy that lasts awhile (another spat of mismatch games after a win streak raged me into forcing taliyah til I went B5). I was just so permanently scarred after that first bullshit early on that it tilted me into forcing taliyah support so I could pretend to have fun.

Then when I reclimbed from THAT it buttfucked me around S4 with only a 51-52% winrate after I won 12 bard in a row. The frustration from the obvious mismatches after THAT streak made me pick up adc just to keep my climb slower and consistently closer to 50% winrate.

I've quit now for a few weeks. I realize I may have climbed gold if I hadn't gotten so stressed at the matchmaker. Also, tilting so hard and so long that I handicap myself may not be the best most mature way to handle adversity.

All that being said.... winning a lot is very unrewarding if it just weakens your allies and I'm a lil upset at a wasted season :(

HIGHSQUEEKS10/30/2016, 2:01:24 PM5 votes

This is such a huge frustration. This always happens and it happens in all pvp game modes (ranked normal ARAM).. Got a winning streak? RITO: OK we will make sure your team has bots and terrible players on it for 10 games. I will go look up some of these bad players and they will have KDAs of 1.0 for a 20 game stretch or regularly feed 20+ kills etc etc.
Got a losing streak? RITO: we will now make you feel better about yourself and give you equal skill players to play with.

The matchmaking algorithm is clearly intended to do this.. but why is the frustration needed? Put equal players on teams every game, let the chips fall where they may and let the skill sort out where a player should be MMR in all game modes. I have no problem with losing to superior players (this is expected when you are an average player) , I do have a problem with losing with teams that are down 25-2 in kills in the first 15 minutes and I haven't died once.

I just won 8/9 normal games in the last few days. I am fully expecting to lose 8/9 in the near future while playing the same champs and same strategy. This is BS and it really needs to be looked at . RITO PLS

I wonder if someone has ever done a statistical analysis on this ?

Pierce The Veal10/29/2016, 11:31:29 PM4 votes

Agreed. I've noticed this.

The Deckowner10/30/2016, 3:18:21 AM4 votes

Or the terrible player's mmr might indicate a equal skill level as you, except the player can be dynamically boosted and the mmr means nothing.

Poorly Dressed10/30/2016, 10:21:59 AM4 votes

I go on a 10 game winning streak in ARAM and you can bet your a** on it that you will get feeders, ragers, quitters and all the other toxic guys in the next 5-10 games. That's just the way it ist. I feel you man.

Harvey Rabbit10/30/2016, 12:17:42 PM4 votes

It really ruins the fun of the game. And it is typical of Riot that they say the problem is not them but mental flaws on the part of the player, like "Dunning-Kruger Effect". No, geniuses, people compare matchmaking in this game to all their other experience with matchmaking in other games and conclude that your system sucks ass by comparison. Here's a clue: it's never the customer's fault you suck ass.

ADC5LUT10/30/2016, 9:43:28 PM3 votes

Can confirm this bullshit. Simply ridiculous. I went on a 7 game winning streak out of Silver 2. As soon as i hit silver 1 i had the most toxic trashy players . Like these guys were literally cussing at each other for most of the game. Out of my 6 losses in Silver 1 before going back to Silver 2 only 1 was one where i didn't at least go even in lane or outright win. My first game in silver 2 was like playing with bronzies. My lux fed brand 10 kills in 15 minutes bot lane lost, jungle lost. Meanwhile I'm 3-0 top and walk mid and 1v1 brand, walk bottom 1v2 the bot lane, go to drag find the enemy jungle trying and failing to solo drag, pick him up and drag and proceeded to carry my scrub lord team to victory. Not a single one of them was toxic.

FantasySniper10/30/2016, 2:28:13 AM3 votes

When testing anything, it's best to make all other factors consistent. Yes, LoL is supposed to be different every game, but tweaking matches in a way that the players themselves have no control over is the same thing as rigging them. Matching players to intentionally prevent a winning streak when the whole point of a ranking system is to put players at their skill level is just counter-intuitive. People over at Overwatch have complained about this since the game started. It's not just League that does it, so it's easy to tell that they are.

Simpumba10/31/2016, 1:52:02 AM2 votes

I had above 55% winrate. I got in plat1, promos for diamond. Lost that, went to shit from there. I'm now almost plat4, and at a 52.8%.

hi im Rizzuto10/30/2016, 5:24:41 PM1 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2332156529/36615813?tab=overview

welcome to the feel train bro, it's happens alot

Unicky10/31/2016, 3:25:35 AM1 votes

Oh, you have hard evidence supporting your claim? Let me see it.

Oh wait, you don't.

In fact you don't actually know anything about the algorithm, do you? You only know you're own experiences and so you can only base your argument from them. You don't know how it functions, what it's made with, how it's made or anything like that. You're just another cynical demagogue preaching elo-hell and everyone here will most certainly follow you. First of all, a win-steak can be anything 2 games, 5 games, 10 games, 300 games you name it, this hides your argument behind an ambiguity and makes it a null point. You're saying that you're being placed with worse players (or described as uncarriable) because you're on a winstreak which is simply not true.

This implies that if the player is under what is defined as a "win-streak" they will be matched with terrible teammates. That's funny because a win-streak is anything above 2 games, this means that everyone who gets more than 2 wins will get matched with shitty players every time. That's objectively wrong because I was on a 6 game win streak (6>2) and I got matched with a Pantheon who carried my ass. You can't tell me I got lucky, because you're trying to say the algorithm is corrupt.

You could be matched with anyone at any point. All the worst players in gold or whatever could be off to soccer practice or something and as a result, you can only possibly play with good gold players. You can't be matched against or with people who aren't playing the game, that's just silly. You don't know so don't act like you do or you just end up looking really stupid.

Also what do you mean by "good" and "bad" teammates? Is that just an arbitrary criteria for players who do well in one game or do poorly respectively? Does a 0/3 Anivia who controls the game through strong macro play classify as a good player? I mean he fed his ass off, and he might've almost carried you by good wave management and proper objective control. Not that anyone would have noticed that, I mean look at her, she's 0/3. Fuck man, that Anivia single-handedly lost us the game.

Oh, and let's not forget that 0/20 top laner, might've been up against a better player. Maybe, just maybe, he was the better player and he's just having a bad game. Maybe his dog died and he's on tilt. Maybe there's just something else to it. He might've got some random packet loss. Maybe he just got outplayed. Hell I get outplayed by mid-silvers sometimes, shit happens. I can't say I'll always win against a mid-silver, because people have different play styles, different champion pools and different mindsets. First of all, your teammates aren't computers, they're people who are all different. Second of all, there's a lot more to League of Legends than just League of Legends. Things outside of the game happen that we can't control and they can affect the things inside the game. You don't know these things, so you don't just assume you do. You just have to get it and move on.

Fuck your 2 cents. Fuck elo hell. Life sucks. Deal with it. /all gg

GOD! I can't believe people actually think this stuff is true. Just another epidemic of Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.

TL;DR : You're actually completely wrong and if you stopped reading the TL:DR and read my argument you'd know exactly why.