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My idea to tone down Zoe (Shift Power)

Final Spark Lux·1/31/2018, 9:15:12 AM·11 votes·1,249 views

If you're going to take the time to vote, please take a moment to give me some feedback; I'd really appreciate it. I'd like to preface this by saying I don't think she's OP, but I do think she could be toned down just slightly, or at least give her enemies a better chance to catch her out without being instantly blown up. This is focused purely on her passive and Q ability and not taking her E into account. We can do this by giving her the Lux treatment.

Back in 6.14, I underwent some changes as follows:

  • Illumination (Passive)
  • Base damage increased to 20 - 190 (based on level) from 18 - 154 (based on level)
  • Light Binding (Q Ability)
  • Base damage reduced to 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 from 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260.

They did this to shift power away from pure burst from long range to something that forces me to decide whether I want to do more damage in exchange for being at risk, or do less damage in exchange for some safety.

If we were to shift some power away from her Q and put it on her passive, the damage would fundamentally be the same, but it would force the player to decide between safety and less poke or more damage and less safety (depending on the situation of course).

She could either;

  1. Q backwards -> R into target -> Q recast into R return, which would force her to sacrifice damage from a potential auto attack (depending on the range) or
  2. R backwards -> Q backwards -> R return into Q recast, which would put her in a better spot to auto attack for the passive damage (depending on the range), but it also puts her in a more vulnerable position to be caught out in.

The idea here is still to keep a good chunk of damage on her Q because that's her go-to spell, but to also shift enough power away from it so she isn't 1 shotting people from Q alone. I believe this would make Zoe players happy because they aren't losing any damage, and non-Zoe players happy because there's more counter-play potential. What do you guys think?

######Disclaimer: I know it may come off as QQ, but I'm honestly just trying to think of a solution that could benefit everyone. I'm not complaining about Zoe, and I'm not asking for nerfs.

https://i.imgur.com/i3xJFid.png[/img]

36 Comments

Teridax681/31/2018, 11:39:30 AM3 votes

As honorable as the intent is behind this suggestion, the problem with it is that Zoe's Q is intended to one-shot, so shifting damage away would be likely to also come at a cost to Zoe's identity. Lux, by contrast, has more leeway, as she's intended to lay down burst, but not necessarily apply all of it in one go from a long distance. Because of this, I feel a damage shift may not be appropriate.

While I personally take issue with more to Zoe than just her Q, I think if the intent is to give her opponents more of a warning, the most direct way of implementing that would be to telegraph her Q harder, without necessarily reducing its damage. If, for example, the projectile were visible even through Fog of War, the entire ability's extended trajectory, from its initial cast to its travel upon recast, would be telegraphed to Zoe's targets at all times, thereby adding significantly more forewarning. Additionally, I think making Paddle Star's damage scale with time on the battlefield, rather than distance traveled, would also force Zoe to space out her casts and deal damage in proportion to how much she telegraphs the ability, as right now there is no reason to wait any meaningful amount of time before recasting Q, even when factoring in the use of her ult. With this change, Zoe could still reliably get some baseline damage off if she wants to, but wouldn't be able to bring targets from 100 to 0 in just a fraction of a second.

JoeMG1/31/2018, 5:06:33 PM2 votes

I suggested something like this a while back, too! Its definitely a good idea to make her more interactive.

Right now her passive just feels like a crutch in case she misses her main combo, that way she still gets some damage in.

Furious Delisha1/31/2018, 9:43:06 AM2 votes

...?

Your first scenario is better for safely hitting an auto. You can R forward, Q+auto, and teleport back easily and safely.

Second scenario would mean you're going balls deep, showing your face at <800 with 0 escapes for an extended period of time.

Barley1/31/2018, 1:03:05 PM1 votes

Im trying to take this post as non biased as possible, seeing as youre a Lux main. I would make 3 nerfs to Zoe. Ready? Here. We. Go! 1. Bonus damage when target is asleep can only be triggered by abilities, and aa’s will do reular damage to the target. 2. E has little to no on hit damage (Max 200-300 at rank 5). 3. I forgot :P I would also not buff Zoe, but make a better thing in her kit. If you use your W on nothing, so lets say you picked up a botrk and dont want it cause u see a flash, yu can W the ground and pick up a flash :D This way, you can get rid of items/actives you dont want.

HavinABadTiem1/31/2018, 2:36:52 PM1 votes

Would adding a slight delay on the teleport with a marker indicating where she will pop up (similar to Cho Q) alleviate any of the issue?

TyrekGoldenspear1/31/2018, 3:29:53 PM1 votes

This idea has merit; on another note I feel that the reason she has so much damage on Q is because that is literally her only damage spell besides her passive. So they have to load a burst mage's combo damage into one spell.

So naturally it feels bad to get smacked by it.

A weakness that burst mages usually have however is that they can't burst tanks. However Zoe's true damage amp on her sleep makes her able to do a heft amount of damage to both.

Perhaps tone down the true damage to let the beefier guys tank the shots?

Velasan1/31/2018, 4:28:40 PM1 votes

Zoe is frustrating for people to play against because of her RNG and safety, and that sleep should be able to be cleansed at the drowsy phase.

If you want to nerf her you just need to increase her risk. Let her have the damage, but like a Fizz or Leblanc she should have to go in for it.

Sageace1/31/2018, 6:00:51 PM1 votes

Her whole kit is fun to play as, but playing against her is a pain in the a**. They need more of a way to make her kinda like a Lux trickster champion, take more power out of her Q and put some in her auto-attacks. That way, it forces her to be in fights more often.

nm10101/31/2018, 10:05:09 PM1 votes

I will not be placated until e has at least 5 seconds of down time with her cdr rush. Also you should consider how moving damage onto her passive would affect her w power. Passive + w damage is already pretty significant damage, especially in team fights when she can pick up a bunch of w uses.

Zone of Endless1/31/2018, 11:04:58 PM1 votes

This would make her play too similar to Ahri tbh.

The Yetii Rider2/1/2018, 2:50:22 AM1 votes

"If we were to shift some power away from her Q and put it onto her passive, the damage would be fundamentally the same".

What? ...No? The base damage of Zoe's Q multiples based on the distance traveled. If you take 20 damage off her Q, you could be reducing the total damage of her Q by 50, because her Q gains up to 150% bonus damage at max range.

You would have to amplify her passive (which cannot fail and has no innate skill or range of damage like her Q) by an insane amount to match a small dip in damage on her Q.

HavinABadTiem2/1/2018, 1:09:56 PM1 votes

What really gets me is that they nerfed Nid way back when to combat the issues we're discussing now. I feel kinda... betrayed? If they want to release a champion, they need to think about what happened in the past if the mechanic is similar to another one already reworked.

deathgod51/31/2018, 10:53:57 AM1 votes

The problem that could arise from this is that the basedamage on her auto attacks is then used to poke somebody out of lane without even having to hit your skillshots, but I still think it is a good idea. Needs to be implemented carefully though

Ifneth1/31/2018, 12:51:33 PM1 votes

I love this idea. Her passive should be a big part of her kit. I’m also in favor of gating her 100-0 1-shots from fog behind a large gold and experience lead, keeping her from delivering them while even or during the full-build late-game.

She should have to run around, picking up summoners, putting herself in danger. Then her kit would be a blast to play against. Right now fishing for a one-shot is just too rewarding, safe, and cheap.