Boards›Gameplay

Gameplay Balancing Suggestions (Bruisers and Mages primarily)

What Is Smite·2/2/2018, 9:40:18 AM·5 votes·361 views

Alright so I'll start off by stating the obvious: Bruisers and Mages are not in the best spots right now in terms of their build costs, effectiveness, and impact at certain points in the game.

In this post I will be suggesting some changes/items/adjustments to several things in order to bring back a semblance of equilibrium to the state of the game, whether people agree with me or not is completely up to them.

Firstly addressing the issue of bruisers (Yes I will be using this term, you can't stop me) and their build costs compared to other classes.

For comparisons I'll be using 4-item build costs. The costs are taken from one of Hashinshin's video talking about Meddler's Jan 24th post.

Bruisers: item 3078 , item 3074 or item 3748 , item 3053 , item 3742 Cost: 13333 Gold AD Bruiser: item 3071 , item 3074 or item 3748 , item 3742 , item 3026 Cost: 11800 Gold Tanks: item 3800 , item 3143 , item 3065 , item 3001 Cost: 11250 Gold ADC: item 3031 , item 3087 , item 3046 , item 3085 Cost: 11200 Gold AD Caster: item 3147 , item 3142 , item 3071 , item 3026 Cost: 11200 Gold

From the above suggested 4 Item builds we can see that bruiser in general have much higher costs for access to their items as compared to other classes. In order to equalize build costs for bruisers against their AD counter-parts and nemesis here are a few changes I recommend.

Changes to Items

item 3078: Price reduced to 3403, combination cost of the 3 components being 3 Gold

When combining item 3044 , item 3057 , and item 3101 into item 3078 there is only a small gain of: 10 AD, 50 Health, and 5% Bonus MS. The unique passive CDR of the item 3101 is combined with the CDR of item 3057 to provide the 20% CDR on item 3078 .

You could argue that upgrading the components to item 3078 changes the sheen proc damage from +100% base AD to +200% base AD, but coupled that with the minor stat gains is not enough to boast a 3733 price tag. Another issue that arises when the item is brought down to 3403 cost is that Ezreal now becomes stronger much more quickly since the item becomes more easily accessible, for most abuse cases I have an idea of how to adjust for them which will be explained later.

item 3074 and item 3748: Price reduced to 3200 Gold

item 3074 : Stats adjusted to: 70 AD, 100% Base health Regen, 10% Lifesteal

item 3748 : Passive Cleave adjusted : 5 + 1% max hp to target, 40 + 1.5% to enemies in a cone item 3748 : Passive Crescent adjusted: 40 + 7.5% max HP

The adjustments made to item 3074 shave off 10AD (item 1036 worth of damage) and 2% Lifesteal in order to allow most melee champs who rely on it for waveclear to get it much sooner than they are currently able to.

The adjustments made to item 3748 target its unique passives damage as shaving off either AD or HP from the base item stats would result in a case similar to item 3124 where you would lose stats for combining it's components. Add to the fact that the majority of item 3748 power comes from it's passives allowing both Bruisers and AD Bruisers to hit hard.

item 3053 : Unique Passive adjusted: 40% Base AD item 3053 : Unique Passive - Lifeline adjusted: Shielded for 60% of Bonus Hp, decaying after 1s over 3s

The adjustments made to item 3053 target it's passives just like item 3748 as the majority of the items power is invested there. 40% Bonus base AD is a nice middle ground between its previous value of 30% and its current value of 50%. The changes to the shield amount and time until it starts to decay is provide a decently sized shield while still maintaining it for roughly the same time as it is now on live.

No Adjustments need to be made to item 3742 , item 3071 , or item 3026 as I believe that the items are fairly priced for what passives and stats they provide.

Appyling the changes in price to the items would deduct 830 Gold from Bruisers builds and 300 Gold from AD Bruiser builds. This would bring their respective totals to:

Bruiser: item 3078 , item 3074 or item 3748 , item 3053 , item 3742 Cost: 12503 AD Bruiser: item 3071 , item 3074 or item 3748 , item 3742 , item 3026 Cost: 11500

Bruisers will still have quite a larger build cost which is mainly attributed to buying 3 items at or above the 3000 Gold price point, while AD Bruiser builds will fall more in-line cost-wise with Tank, ADC, and AD Caster build costs.

Now here is the part where I propose changes to mage items and the like. First off cost of their 4 Item builds compared to other Classes, once again this is taking values from Hashinshin's video where he replies to Meddler's post on Jan 24th.

Mage: item 3102 , item 3089 , item 3165 , item 3135 Cost: 12550 AD Bruiser: item 3071 , item 3074 or item 3748 , item 3742 , item 3026 Cost: 11800 Gold Tanks: item 3800 , item 3143 , item 3065 , item 3001 Cost: 11250 Gold ADC: item 3031 , item 3087 , item 3046 , item 3085 Cost: 11200 Gold AD Caster: item 3147 , item 3142 , item 3071 , item 3026 Cost: 11200 Gold

From this comparison of 4 Item builds we can see that Mages need to have more impact/kills in order to reach their relative item powerspikes as compared to their ADC and AD Caster counter-parts.

Changes to Items

item 3089: Price reduced to 3400 Gold

item 3089 Stats adjusted to: 100 AP item 3089 Unique Passive Adjusted: Increase AP by 30%

The adjustments to item 3089 are meant to bring it in-line with item 3031 and the proposed changes to item 3078 which form the crux of their respective classes. item 3089 would lose 20 flat AP from it's stats while still providing a nice 30% increase to all AP that you build on a Mage.

item 3102: Price reduced to 2800 Gold

item 3102 Stats adjusted to: 60 AP, 50 MR

The adjustment to item 3102 put's the item stats similar to the old Abyssal Sceptre, however due to major power investment of the item being poured into the passive of item 3102 not much of its cost can be shaved off.

item 3165: Price reduced to 2600 Gold

item 3165 Stats adjusted to: 80 AP, 300 Mana

item 3165 Unique Passive adjusted: 15% of max mana restored on kills/assists (this change would also be applied to item 3802 for consistency)

The adjustments to item 3165 are to allow the item to return to the glory it saw during season 5, where it provided adequate stats for a 1st item without breaking the bank for Mages. The reduction in AP tones down the amount of bullying Mages do slightly in favor of reaching their mid-game power spikes sooner, while the reduction in mana restored upon takedowns removes a bit of safety that the item provides (think of an Ahri going oom but has ult available still to use as an escape after a kill).

No Adjustments need to be made to item 3135 as I believe that the item itself is already fairly priced for the stats and passive it provides.

Applying the changes in price to the items would deduct 900 gold from Mages builds. This would bring their respective total to:

Mage: item 3102 , item 3089 , item 3165 , item 3135 Cost: 11650 Gold

Though Mages will still pay more overall for their items compared to ADC and AD Casters, their total cost is brought closer to their counter-parts allowing them to hit their power-spikes at roughly the same time.

Mechanic Changes to Sheen Items

Ok so I will say that I don't know too much about how Sheen items interact with items and skills that add on damage to basic attacks but I'll put my idea out there anyways along with how I believe Sheen items are currently working (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong).

The way I believe that Sheen currently interacts with items and abilities that add on damage to basic attacks is as so:

(Basic attack damage + Bonus damage on basic) x Sheen multiplier (x.75 for item 3100 , x1 for item 3025 , and x2 for item 3078 )

My idea to fix abuse cases is to change the formula to such:

(Basic attack damage x Sheen Multiplier) + Bonus Damage on Basic

Bonus damage would be anything from on-hit effects such as item 3042 , item 3153 , item 3145 , etc. to even abilities that add damage like Nasus Siphoning Strike (Q), Janna Eye of the Storm (E), Trundle Chomp (Q), Darius Noxian Might (P).

Along with the suggested change would also be to classify Veigar's Penominal Evil Power (P) as Bonus damage on his abilities rather than gaining Flat AP which can be further improved with Deathcap's passive.

Now I understand not many people would be happy with the changes I have suggested even outright disagreeing with what I have to say, but I am dedicated to trying to reach a state of balance where one class does not trump every other class. I prefer a state of the game where I can pick whatever champion I want and have an equal chance to impact the game as any other role has. Feel free to leave your criticisms below and I'll try to get to as many people as possible with their inquiries/qualms about the changes I proposed above/my thoughts on balancing. I'm also open to discussing about adding in items to the game and their balancing.

12 Comments

Potchikir2/2/2018, 2:38:54 PM2 votes

normal Jax build Bruisers: item 3078 item 3153 item 3748 item 3053 Cost: 13 833

i dont know wtf is this AD bruiser thing

normal Maokai build Tanks: item 3068 item 3800 item 3065 item 3194 Cost: 11 150

normal Tristana build ADC: item 3031 item 3087 item 3094 item 3026 Cost: 11 000

normal Miss Fortune/Jayce build ADcaster: item 3142 item 3147 item 3071 item 3033 Cost: 11 400

normal Lux build Mages: item 3165 item 3285 item 3151 item 3135 Cost: 11 850

bruisers actually need changes to their item costs mages dont need changes to their item cost they also cost arround 11k

TheSandQrator2/3/2018, 12:17:05 PM1 votes

Unfortunately you're mistaken how the Spellblade effect interacts with items, on-attack effects, and on-hit effects.

It doesn't. The way you've stated you want it to be is how it is at the moment.

The only thing that affects the damage of a Spellblade hit is a character's Base Attack Damage (and Ability Power for Lich Bane).

Total attack damage is comprised of base attack damage and bonus attack damage.

The base attack damage is innate to the champion. It does not depend on items or runes and increases with each champion level (see List of champions' attack damage).

Bonus attack damage can be gained from items, abilities and runes. Increasing the bonus AD is the typical way to scale up the damage output of an AD-based champion.

If you bought an item that grants Attack Damage item 3072, or an on-hit effect item 3153, it would increase the overall damage of the attack, yes; it would not affect the damage of the Spellblade hit.

There is one exception to this trend, Sterak's Gage:

item 3053 Unique: + 50% Base Attack Damage

So, to show some maths, here is a Google Spreadsheet.

It shows how Bonus Attack Damage doesn't affect the Spellblade damage, despite increasing your Total Attack Damage. If Spellblade interacted with Total Attack Damage and/or on-hit effects, then Trinity Force would be built on absolutely everyone who had even a shred of reliance on auto-attacks (aside from Azir, maybe).

It'll also show how Sterak's Gage is an incredibly powerful item on melee Spellblade users, because not only does it often grant an absolutely enormous amount of Attack Damage (+73.5AD on Illaoi!), its shield is also powerful, and it amplifies their Spellblade hits even farther. It's no accident that Spellblade plus Sterak's Gage are popular combos with many of the champions with the highest Base Attack Damage (most of which also happen to be melee).