The Math on Poppy's New W Passive

FullOnGritz·12/16/2015, 6:11:46 PM·2 votes·1,068 views

Since Armor and Mag Res % damage reduction works as a diminishing returns function of f(x)=x/(x+100) (Which I modeled in game, This will give you the same % reduction as calculating 1 - (Health/Effective Health)) I figured I would crunch some numbers to see how effective Poppy's new passive on her W is. This new passive was put in place to somewhat emulate the feel of her old passive (often considered the strongest passive in the game). Here is how they differ.

Old Passive: If Poppy took more than 10% of her current health in physical or magic damage from a non-turret source that damage was halved (This was applied after armor and mag res reductions).

New Passive: Poppy's total armor and mag res is increased by 12% and doubled to 24% when she is below 40% health.

So lets do some math.

Round 1. If you have 50 armor that typically gives you 33% physical damage reduction. With Poppy's old passive if this damage exceeded 10% of her current health she would have a total of 67% damage reduction (+ The opponents armor pen would be half as effective). With Poppy's new passive she will have 56 armor and 36% damage reduction. When below 40% health she would have 62 armor and 38% damage reduction (This number will be fully reduced by an opponents armor pen).

Round 2. If you have 100 armor that typically gives you 50% physical damage reduction. With Poppy's old passive if this damage exceeded 10% of her current health she would have a total of 75% damage reduction (+ The opponents armor pen would be half as effective). With Poppy's new passive she will have 112 armor and 53% damage reduction. When below 40% health she would have 124 armor and 55% damage reduction (This number will be fully reduced by an opponents armor pen).

Round 3. If you have 200 armor that typically gives you 67% physical damage reduction. With Poppy's old passive if this damage exceeded 10% of her current health she would have a total of 84% damage reduction (+ The opponents armor pen would be half as effective). With Poppy's new passive she will have 224 armor and 69% damage reduction. When below 40% health she would have 248 armor and 71% damage reduction (This number will be fully reduced by an opponents armor pen).

Bonus Round. If you decide to build 300 armor that typically gives you 75% physical damage reduction. With Poppy's old passive if this damage exceeded 10% of her current health she would have a total of 88% damage reduction (+ The opponents armor pen would be half as effective). With Poppy's new passive she will have 336 armor and 77% damage reduction. When below 40% health she would have 372 armor and 79% damage reduction (This number will be fully reduced by an opponents armor pen).

So to finish off this analysis I've been questioning lately whether new (Tank) Poppy is really much tankyer than old (Assassin) Poppy. You Also have to take into consideration that the new Poppy scales with health well (with her buckler passive) while the old Poppy didn't (because lower health meant her passive was more likely to apply). Also old Poppy's W also stacked up to 50 armor (but not mag res) and attack damage passively at max level and remained that way as long as she was attacking or being attacked. It could also be activated for immediate max stacks and a movement speed buff. This armor is greater than the bonus armor you would get from stacking armor on new Poppy up to a pretty significant point! Furthermore, old Poppy's ult made her invincible and immune to CC from everything but one enemy champion and her massive damage lower health builds gave her much better sustain with items likeitem 2003 oritem 3146 .

Sadly my answer is no I do not believe she really stands up to her old tanky potential based on what I've shown above and the results of testing I did under most circumstances I could think of. A large majority of the time old Poppy could take a larger beating, Unless you are against a champion who does high true damage then the extra health will keep you from being bursted down or you had only built 4 or 5 pure tank Items on new Poppy in tests where they just stood and took damage with no sustain (representing a late game stun lock situation). Just about all other situations old Poppy has the edge or They will be about even (in the case of slow burns).

My personal Opinion: This is interesting to me because now that she has much lower scaling damage and can also no longer do magic/physical hybrid damage she seems less flexible to play. Her new ult is okay and can be fun at times but not nearly as fun as her old one (though it is much more fun getting hit by the new ult! WEEEEEE!). I feel like charging people into walls and beating them up even feels much less meaningful with the massive damage nerf. I do think her new kit has potential but right now becomes less fun the more you play it and realize the scaling it lacks. I believe if Riot can bring back some bruiser/assassin level scaling to her kit and balance her out, she could really regain a more fleshed out balance-able version of her old Identity. She definitely needed the rework but completely lost her identity in the process and feels like a completely different champion as she now lacks the damage to maintain her old role.

So there's the math and my thoughts on it! I'd love to see other peoples thoughts on this as well!

Thanks for reading! [slayer-jinx-catface]

8 Comments

Quepha12/16/2015, 7:02:30 PM4 votes

{quoted}

Bonus Round. If you decide to build 300 armor that typically gives you 75% physical damage reduction. With Poppy's old passive if this damage exceeded 10% of her current health she would have a total of 88% damage reduction (+ The opponents armor pen would be half as effective).

You are misunderstanding Poppy's old passive (like everyone did) It is NOT 50% reduction on a hit that deals more than 10% of your hp, it is 50% reduction on THE AMOUNT PAST 10% OF YOUR CURRENT HP.

If the hit is for 25% of your current hp, then the first 10% hits normally and the remaining 15% is cut in half to 7.5%, for a total of 17.5% of your current hp.

Quepha12/16/2015, 6:56:43 PM2 votes

Champions do not get played as tanks because they scale well with durability, they get played as tanks because they have abilities that are relevant without building damage.

Old poppy had high scaling on her damage and a small amount of utility, so you had to build her glass cannon (also her passive barely scaled at all with defensive stats since it only really kicks in at low levels of EHP)

New poppy has reduced damage scaling but more aoe %hp damage and a lot more cc, so she can afford to spend her item slots on durability. All the defensive bonuses on her kit are just levers for riot to use to balance her durability.

Darkvaine12/16/2015, 7:17:55 PM2 votes

keep in mind that you did not build health in old poppy, in which new poppy you do.

old poppy was a assassin/bruiser, with low health but hard to kill. now she has way more to offer to a team fight, protection and now she can be in the fight at all times, not when ult was up and not been able to be a real front line. so in my personal opinion, she is tankier and more useful.

excuse my english

DeathBurst12/16/2015, 7:46:50 PM1 votes

So...

First, you misunderstood the passive, as the most upvoted comment says. Second, the new passive works on ALL damage, not just the damage that exceed 10% of current life. So sure, the old one was much more powerful when it worked. Third, you're judging an ability in a vacuum. Maybe the passive has indeed been nerfed (since it was conditional, it's hard to tell), in order to have more power budget to invest in other abilities.