ADC Build: Lucian in Tank Meta

AkumaLuck·Apr 10, 2015·3 votes·5,697 views

So for a while now it's been pretty standard to build IE + Shiv/ PD first on almost all ADCs. It's just sort of something I kind of accepted as the norm, despite the fact that I found it a little boring. Now I am not a good player by any means. I'm low elo, and I'm not gunna pretend I know everything about this game because it's quite obvious I don't.

That being said, I would like to get the opinion of some of the other ADC players out there, particularly Lucian players, on how you like to build him these days. I've gone over a few builds with a higher elo friend (Plat-ish elo) and would just like to get the communities thoughts. First thing to remember, and something I think people forget sometimes: This is low elo. Peel is not to be expected, and positioning is not by any means great. As I said, I'm low elo for a reason. In my mind, it seems that it might do me more good to not rush the typical IE+Shiv/Pd combo, as while it does maximize dps, it suffers in survivability. I feel like this is a really big problem now with the abundance of Cinderhulk junglers. I can't tell you how many games I've played where the enemy team as a triple tank combo that is hard for me personally to peel off.

Now I've composed about 4 builds from the talks I've had with my friend, ad I'd like to get more opinions. What builds do you like? What builds don't you like? What situation would you use these in? Or any other information you might like to provide. Not all of them are tank killing builds, just different ideas we had for different situations.

I've attached a text document with the builds and their early/mid game stats for you to look at.

Cheers and have a great day!

25 Comments

IcyPepperApr 10, 20152 votes

Typically, I build my three core items, boots, and then two items I'll need to counter the enemy team. If they're hyper-burst, I'll grab a Bloodthirst (for shield) and a GA. If it's a tanky team, I'll grab a Botrk and Bloodthirst/GA.

Personally, this is my favorite Jinx build: item 3031 item 3046 item 3006 item 3035 item 3153 item 3072

GA is a more "safe" item, but bloodthirster gives me more survivability in a teamfight because the tank becomes a blood pool for me. As the adc, it is my job to focus the tank, and since some of my friends now how to position, I can handle them decently.

Think of the tank meta as the adc meta as well. You're allowed to flex your build a little. And bork's damage will scale to cinderhulk's HP increase!

AkumaLuckApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Typically, I build my three core items, boots, and then two items I'll need to counter the enemy team. If they're hyper-burst, I'll grab a Bloodthirst (for shield) and a GA. If it's a tanky team, I'll grab a Botrk and Bloodthirst/GA.

Personally, this is my favorite Jinx build:

GA is a more "safe" item, but bloodthirster gives me more survivability in a teamfight because the tank becomes a blood pool for me. As the adc, it is my job to focus the tank, and since some of my friends now how to position, I can handle them decently.

Think of the tank meta as the adc meta as well. You're allowed to flex your build a little. And bork's damage will scale to cinderhulk's HP increase!

My question to you is, do you feel like you suffer mid game because you are committed to the same 3 item start every game? Do you feel you do enough sustained damage regardless of the enemy team comp? Also, I'm speaking from a soloqueue sense, a place where no one knows (At least at my level) how to position properly, so I can't really rely on my team to position in a way that would keep me from getting jumped on. Wouldn't a more defensive first item like BT or BOTRK be better at that point? Obviously positioning is something I have to work on as well, but I feel these other builds might ease some of the trouble I'm having with these dive heavy comps.

IcyPepperApr 10, 20151 votes

That's why I focus on cs, not trying to get kills (and losing cs). I get more core items, try to win lane and tower, and attempt to control dragon.

Last whisper is already core for most adcs, and the first two give plenty of dps for an adc. WHen I get LW, the tanks are finally building armor (because cinderhulk only gives HP), allowing to ignore a lot of their defense. I don't have sustain yet, so I have to rely on my support and keep pots on hand. With my increased dps, I focus on objectives and cs, then eventually get the lifesteal to survive late-game.

Dive-heavy comps are tricky... one thing I'v learned is to farm under tower, an important skill. Worst thing you can do as the adc is to use your little utility to snare someone under tower, or get your support to... oh wait, that's not bad, that's evil. :D But in all seriousness, lifesteal isn't much if you don't have dps to actually heal with, so I wouldn't be missing too much in the first place. I just picked up Vayne, and botrk's lifesteal isn't much until you got some decent dps first.

I'll be honest here: just like the support, the adc is teamwork-heavy. Anyone can kill you in a 1v1 until late-game. The balance in that is that when late-game comes, I'm allowed to focus the tank first to win the teamfight. Until then, focus on cs and objectives and don't force teamfights every five minutes.

AkumaLuckApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's why I focus on cs, not trying to get kills (and losing cs). I get more core items, try to win lane and tower, and attempt to control dragon.

Last whisper is already core for most adcs, and the first two give plenty of dps for an adc. WHen I get LW, the tanks are finally building armor (because cinderhulk only gives HP), allowing to ignore a lot of their defense. I don't have sustain yet, so I have to rely on my support and keep pots on hand. With my increased dps, I focus on objectives and cs, then eventually get the lifesteal to survive late-game.

Dive-heavy comps are tricky... one thing I'v learned is to farm under tower, an important skill. Worst thing you can do as the adc is to use your little utility to snare someone under tower, or get your support to... oh wait, that's not bad, that's evil. :D But in all seriousness, lifesteal isn't much if you don't have dps to actually heal with, so I wouldn't be missing too much in the first place. I just picked up Vayne, and botrk's lifesteal isn't much until you got some decent dps first.

I'll be honest here: just like the support, the adc is teamwork-heavy. Anyone can kill you in a 1v1 until late-game. The balance in that is that when late-game comes, I'm allowed to focus the tank first to win the teamfight. Until then, focus on cs and objectives and don't force teamfights every five minutes.

Again, I feel like you are looking at this in a perfect world sense. Yes, in a perfect world I wouldn't have these problems, and yes, in a perfect world I wouldn't be teamfighting so often. But unfortunately, in low elo, that's what life is. Your team WANTS to fight at 12 minutes, towers go down fast due to poor lane management, and supports don't give two shits about their ADC because most of them were forced to play support in the first place. I'm not trying to focus on kills, but it's hard to focus on farming when the enemy team in knocking down mid at 12 minutes because that's all they know how to do. You're asking my to work as a team in a place notorious for not having teamwork XD

IcyPepperApr 10, 20151 votes

Touche, touche.

I'm not sure how to play or build Lucian, to be honest. If you played Vayne, I know if you needed to teamfight early you'd go botrk + PD + LW in that order.

Syn ZykanApr 10, 20151 votes

IE first, it is his largest powerspike and should be done in almost any game (there are rare exceptions)

Then depending on what each teams respective powerspikes and team comps are I will either go for Bork second or Shiv. Bork if I need to tank bust or Shiv for general team fighting. Brutalizer item follows Bork, or blood thirster follows shiv. Last whisper is always item 4 followed by whatever situationally seems right for 5th slot and then boots ofc is the other item you finish when you feel is appropriate :P

So item 3031 item 3153 item 3142 item 3035 item 3046 item 3006 could be my tank busting build if they are a fairly heavy front line

item 3031 item 3087 item 3072 item 3035 item 3026 item 3006 can be my general teamfight build if they arent a heavy front line but have an assassin like zed

AkumaLuckApr 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Syn Zykan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0d7jKkE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-10T17:33:08.057+0000)

IE first, it is his largest powerspike and should be done in almost any game (there are rare exceptions)

Then depending on what each teams respective powerspikes and team comps are I will either go for Bork second or Shiv. Bork if I need to tank bust or Shiv for general team fighting. Brutalizer item follows Bork, or blood thirster follows shiv. Last whisper is always item 4 followed by whatever situationally seems right for 5th slot and then boots ofc is the other item you finish when you feel is appropriate :P

I feel like BOTRK after IE wastes the damage potential of IE. Which is one of the problems I have with IE. You almost need to build a crit item like PD or Shiv right after to make it effective. IE itself doesn't have that much crit, but it's good because it allows your crit to do more damage with a decent amount of AD tacked on.

Syn ZykanApr 10, 20151 votes

Ie is the largest early powerspike for lucian, yeah grabbing a bork 2nd isnt going to be the strongest pickup for killing like their squishies, but you need to capitalize on the mid game and if they have a strong front like, the extra damage and peel offered by bork against tanky targets will help more than the shiv would. Remember you gotta stay alive to do damage XD

AkumaLuckApr 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Syn Zykan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0d7jKkE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-04-10T17:41:06.341+0000)

Ie is the largest early powerspike for lucian, yeah grabbing a bork 2nd isnt going to be the strongest pickup for killing like their squishies, but you need to capitalize on the mid game and if they have a strong front like, the extra damage and peel offered by bork against tanky targets will help more than the shiv would. Remember you gotta stay alive to do damage XD

But my point is that the hypothetical damage on IE is unreliable if you don't have more Crit. 20% crit isn't all that much, that's 1 in 5 autoattacks maybe. Reversely, BT has the same about of AD, as well as 20% lifesteal, which is garenteed health back in a fight. IE is the strongest powerspike, when paired with PD or Shiv.

SH AzykanApr 10, 20151 votes

remember lucian's passive gives him 2 hits so he has more chances to crit and goes really well with the on hit from Bork. Even pairing a shiv only puts you up to 40% crit chance.

If you aren't focusing entirely on a beefy front line then grabbing shiv second is definitely the better buy than bork. Bork is only if they have like Sejuani jungle, Cho mid and a tanky supp or top. Where you have to worry about them getting on you and preventing you from getting any damage out. They stack hp pretty early so that bork will help you cut through that more than anything else, but you need the AD from IE first for laning. The only reason I don't recommend a Bloodthirster first with that is you will still need the crit late game, and it can be a pain to start grabbing it later.

Riven LeeSin Zed Caitlyn Morgana is their comp? I wouldn't even look at bork

Maokai Sejuani Chogath Graves Thresh definitely going to be picking it up XD

AkumaLuckApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

remember lucian's passive gives him 2 hits so he has more chances to crit and goes really well with the on hit from Bork. Even pairing a shiv only puts you up to 40% crit chance.

If you aren't focusing entirely on a beefy front line then grabbing shiv second is definitely the better buy than bork. Bork is only if they have like Sejuani jungle, Cho mid and a tanky supp or top. Where you have to worry about them getting on you and preventing you from getting any damage out. They stack hp pretty early so that bork will help you cut through that more than anything else, but you need the AD from IE first for laning. The only reason I don't recommend a Bloodthirster first with that is you will still need the crit late game, and it can be a pain to start grabbing it later.

is their comp? I wouldn't even look at bork

definitely going to be picking it up XD

But whats stopping me from buying Crit later? All I'm saying is that BT gives me more of a chance of surviving where I am. IE is great but if I screw up my positioning, or my team decides not to peel for me and I get dived by half their team, it's useless. ADC is all about doing as much damage as possible, and to do that, I have to survive, so why would I not pick an item with just slightly less damage, but a lot more survivability.

On the subject of BOTRK, honestly, I would never buy BOTRK second after IE. It doesn't synergize as well with IE as other items. What I would consider, is buying it first if I'm against a triple tank team. Yes its not a great item for fighting squishies, but to be honest, in a fight againstr a dive heavy team like Maokai, Sej Leona, the squishies are the least of my problems. At that point, at least in my mind, it would be more effective to build BOTRK -> GB -> LW, giving me a lot of attack speed, armor shred and % Hp damage on hit, which would shred squishies. You could even go BOTRK -> PD -> LW so that you could synergize with IE later.

SH AzykanApr 10, 20151 votes

if grabbing bork, and you do blood thirster as your first item, you probably arent getting IE until your 4th item. Since you would likely be getting armor pen as your 3rd (last whisper or yomuu's) meaning you still won't get your extra crit multiplier added until your last item and completely locks you out of that early chance to pick it up if the enemy teams tanks are just terrible at their jobs.

you an always grab item 1053 early for the sustain anyways and decide at the moment whether you feel you really need that extra lifesteal right off the bat. Most cases you should be opting into the IE, but if you are falling behind I guess the BT can be a fair pickup. I just feel like getting that early IE powerspike is always the best option while still early and a lucky crit can win you the lane.

I don't like my last items already being forced by my first ones pickup, Bloodthirster is a luxury if already decided going for a botrk 2nd for specifically tank busting. It is just because of slots available and the timings I guess =\

AkumaLuckApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

if grabbing bork, and you do blood thirster as your first item, you probably arent getting IE until your 4th item. Since you would likely be getting armor pen as your 3rd (last whisper or yomuu's) meaning you still won't get your extra crit multiplier added until your last item and completely locks you out of that early chance to pick it up if the enemy teams tanks are just terrible at their jobs.

you an always grab early for the sustain anyways and decide at the moment whether you feel you really need that extra lifesteal right off the bat. Most cases you should be opting into the IE, but if you are falling behind I guess the BT can be a fair pickup. I just feel like getting that early IE powerspike is always the best option while still early and a lucky crit can win you the lane

My point though is that if the enemy team is primarily tanks, like we see a lot of with Cinderhulk teams, I'm going to have an easier time killing them with BOTRK, and an easier time keeping them off me. I don't really need the Crit early if I do 8% hp damage on hit, and the active helps me kite.

SH AzykanApr 10, 20151 votes

the crit helps more for while in lane, you aren't generally grouping at 1 item and doing huge teamfights. And the crit helps kill them through armor faster as well.

Getting a crit in lane on the enemy laner can be the difference between killing them or them escaping in an all in (which Lucian is really good at even in low elo)

Of course it always comes down to your preference in the long run, which you feel gives you the better edge over the course of many many games. It just is more likely to be the IE giving you the better chance of winning lane and being able to snowball off it to get your other items faster.

SirsirApr 10, 20151 votes

Shiv is kinda meh at the moment. It works very well on Lucian, its just that he doesn't need it since he already HAS waveclear, and it doesn't add that much damage to tanks since they will typically build some MR anyways. If your team is all AD, consider it, but in most cases don't bother.

SH AzykanApr 10, 20151 votes

Graves Lucian Sivir are the only 3 I build shiv on, it just works better for them than pd I feel .-.

ErockandrollApr 10, 20151 votes

General answer to what to get is what ever will help you the most immediately.

BotRK is good against tanks, But you probably won't be facing tanks in the laning phase, so you can probably save that for later.

Based on some LCS builds. They may get item 1038 item 1037 but not actually finish IE right away. These 2 items give you 75 of the 80 AD that IE gives without the Crit chance. Though the Crit chance is unreliable and does not help you push down towers. Some would get item 3093 right after those two items just to accelerate their IE and either Shiv, or Ghost Blade, (either is pretty good on Lucian.)

Come mid game, Unless you need the health shred. Start at item 1053 and leave it their, while you finish your IE. This will give you some Sustain while massively increasing your DPS.

AkumaLuckApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

General answer to what to get is what ever will help you the most immediately.

BotRK is good against tanks, But you probably won't be facing tanks in the laning phase, so you can probably save that for later.

Based on some LCS builds. They may get but not actually finish IE right away. These 2 items give you 75 of the 80 AD that IE gives without the Crit chance. Though the Crit chance is unreliable and does not help you push down towers. Some would get right after those two items just to accelerate their IE and either Shiv, or Ghost Blade, (either is pretty good on Lucian.)

Come mid game, Unless you need the health shred. Start at and leave it their, while you finish your IE. This will give you some Sustain while massively increasing your DPS.

See, my issue though is that at my Elo, laning phase ends only a little after I finish my first item, so I do find myself facing off against tanks earlier than most people would expect. I don't have goldly CS that allows me to follow these pro builds because their gold income is a lot higher than mine typically is.

ErockandrollApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

See, my issue though is that at my Elo, laning phase ends only a little after I finish my first item, so I do find myself facing off against tanks earlier than most people would expect. I don't have goldly CS that allows me to follow these pro builds because their gold income is a lot higher than mine typically is.

Partially just need to get better at CSing then. I wouldn't worry too much about it. partially because the tanks themselves will need time to scale. Assuming the Enemy team will be in the exact same scenario. Or if you don't have a tank on your team, insist that the team split push. Tanks loose power if they can't get a strait fight.

Buttigieg 2020Apr 10, 20151 votes

I either go item 3031 into item 3046 when I win lane and I go into item 3087 when I go even or lose lane.

DreadlocksApr 11, 20151 votes

From the words of "imaqtpie" you only get Youmuus if you cant afford the "good stuff" being Shiv parts.

SlackerboyTCApr 11, 20151 votes

For lucian I build in this optimal order(assuming nothing went downhill in laning) item 3031 item 3275 item 3046 item 3142 item 3153 item 3172 I focus on cdr and attack damage.

ABlueQuakerApr 11, 20151 votes

It depends on the Champion. IE ---> Vamp Sceptre ---> PD is generally fine in terms of lifesteal if you have lifesteal quints and a Doran's Blade. If you're on a Trinity Force champion, however, BotRK or BT first are probably your better options.

windwolf777Apr 11, 20151 votes

I think I'm strange. For the most part I always get item 3153 even on champs that don't really scale by AS like Lucian . I mean, I eventually get the item 3031 / item 3035 among other items, but I just prefer botrk. In fact, I think that on most (m)ADCs (I refuse to call them marksmen), I go upgraded item 1001 , , item 3046 (/), go for the other of the previous I skipped, then get a situation item depending on the game. Usually either item 3087 , item 3065 , distiortion/hg boots, item 3142 , item 3026 or other situational items.

NoMonkuApr 11, 20151 votes

I personally prefer IE->shiv/PD. I get shiv if I need the waveclear, get avarice early on to farm, or if i have enough gold to get it(instead of PD). BT/BotRK rush isn't that great imo because the damage you do won't be as dangerous(no crit). If you really need sustain, a vamp scepter should be enough to get you through laning phase. Also LS is only good when you have enough damage and if you do rush BT/BotRK, you can sustain okay in lane, but it won't really mean much in teamfights if 4 tanks are jumping on you. You are better off getting more damage to kill them.

I used to like Ghostblade, but it falls off later in the game and its bad in the current meta with fights lasting longer so you'll be able to dish out more DPS with Shiv/PD then w/ GB.