Shyvana passive needs a buff, hard

JChaosMaster·1/19/2015, 5:00:56 AM·11 votes·3,072 views

I think shyvana could use some love in her passive department. Most of her skill are pretty cool and besides the lack of cc she is a lot of fun. Her only biggest down side is her junk passive First they don't even tell you how much extra MR or armor shyvana gets, on top of that it really only applies after Level 6. The reason I say it really needs it is because of Annie. At level one Shyvana get 2 extra armer and mr where with a rank one Molten shield Annie gets by 20/30/40/50/60 and it deals damage to enemies who use physical attacks. Mind you this is at top's level 3 she has this shield where Shyvana by level 5 still has +2 magic/armor from her passive.

Aleast allowing it to scale with any of her AD/HP/MR/ARM to increase her passive would give her a lot more of that true tanky power or sustain in the jungle without OP her.

32 Comments

19 19 191/19/2015, 11:51:54 PM2 votes

RIOT GIVE SHYVANA A CC OR UTILITY PASSIVE PLEASE :( I'm tired of these mages/ADC's preventing shyvana from doing anything. Also shyvana's ganking potential sucks so bad.

FiraBurn1/19/2015, 3:23:41 PM2 votes

No just no stop trying to get your champ to be op again get over it. The boring time when she was always top is over now we have a better top lane so plz no buff so I don't have to see this boring champ again.

Jungle Lux God1/19/2015, 6:42:41 PM2 votes

If Shyvana needs a buff, it should not be to her passive. Her passive provides so much free stats and invisible power that getting a buff there would not really contribute to much that the people playing her can feel.

As a matter of fact, I saw a couple Shyvanas in my recent games that built no magic resistance, but still had over 200 magic resistance. That's the passive working, sir.

Blue Collar Bear1/19/2015, 5:25:08 PM2 votes

Personally, I think her passive just seems underwhelming because it is currently a damage oriented meta. Penetration reigns supreme. It is not possible to stack defenses.

However, I would love to see her passive reworked to something similar to Thresh's passive. Dragons are hungry, yes?

soulbanana81/19/2015, 5:34:46 PM1 votes

I don't think the passive needs a change. As we all know, shyv is a hypertank. The passive, while bland, gives her a lot of additional resistances, giving her the highest MR(72.5 with passive) and AR(104 with passive) in the game at lvl 18 while having a decent amount of hp, being in the top 20 with HP at lvl 1, HP at lvl 18, and scaling HP . You also get the most MR at lvl 1 thanks to the passive and going again in the top 15 for armor at level one.(lolwiki doesn't tell me if they include the extra armor, so these are the values with the extra armor)

PalPlays1/19/2015, 11:20:35 PM1 votes

They should make it so that she can AA while running. It would help her ganks a LOT without providing CC.

JustMyBassCannon1/19/2015, 11:53:55 PM1 votes

Um, I have absolutely no trouble with her passive. It always shows me whether it's passively granting 5, 10, 15 or 20 Armor and MR, and I like that bonus resistance. It makes a noticeable difference early on.

MAZZ1M01/20/2015, 2:26:17 AM1 votes

From The wiki (which is accurate): Shyvana gains 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 armor and magic resist (doubled in Dragon's Descent Dragon Form).

Flat 20 armor and mag resist would be nice :3

Anyway, no one should be talking about her passive. Her lack of CC is the real issue in any Shyvana discussion. Unless you're ranged, have reliable gap-closers, or are extremely mobile, you need CC to be useful. Shyvana doesn't have any of those and is unfortunately a weak pick right now. Her W is a garbage gap closer because you have no other CC to force your target to fight you. Xin for example, does. He dashes to you and knocks you up getting in a good amount of dmg while doing so. Sejuani... well Sejuani. Aatrox has a damn good slow. Jarvan has his ult. Hecarim, yes, even Hecarim is more reliable in that he can run ahead of the target while hitting them with Q and push them backward with the E charge and even R them for extra time. Shyvana can't do that and can't reliably tower dive like Zed or Fizz once they inevitably make it to the safety of their tower turret.

Shyvana desperately needs CC.

If her passive defenses were replaced with good CC somehow, we may have an interesting tradeoff....

JChaosMaster1/23/2015, 1:31:07 AM1 votes

Well I cant say if CC is really a issue as she was intended to be a jungle player but having a whole having a whole 40 from her passive a still bad compared to again Annie. Who I love but at rank 3 molten shield give the same stat buffs as Shyvana's whole passive plus it will deal damage back to anyone who uses basic attacks on her.

And what the Wiki fails to mention is how she gets the increase DF and MR. They only increase as she ranks her ult maining the passive itself has truly NO meaning until she hit's level six and everyone know by now the damage dealer's has pitched their dorren stuff and gotten their boots and started building. So by level 6 the +20 "while in dragon form" is now null in useless.

To a point, I can and will keep talking because I like shyvana but that doesn't mean I want to see her Go OP or even more vi I would just like to see her make work. That don't mean I wouldn't mind seeing a overhaul either isn't it wouldn't take much work I think, just tweaking the passive and ult. I can say that now because out of all the transformation camps she is not the only one who cant transform at level 1 and requires Fury to do that.

They could keep it like that but if they tweeker her by letting us it sooner would be epic. That at rank 1 she could transform like normal but with each rank after would lessen the thresh hold. So at rank 2 we could transform with 75% furry and then 50% furry at rank 3. Allowing her lack of cc be balanced by her ability to literary fly "like a dragon" though the jungle. See now that a OP sounding idea but one that could still fit I would continue how but I don't think that would help.

So what how would one of you change her passive, because you already go my idea.

JChaosMaster1/23/2015, 3:19:05 PM1 votes

First I have to correct myself In saying I was wrong about Shyv's being the only one left who can transform, but Renek and Nasus have to wait until level 6 as well. But the amount of HP they get from said transformation is far better then Shyv's Passive increase and they basically get damage aura's while they are active. Shyv on the other and has to have her W up to compare. Second Nasus's does require mana, but Renek has no cost to his and only has to wait for cool down.

Well your kinda right envy but a bit off. I compare with Annie because she is a wizard who gets a better "Temp" buff then Shyv's whole passive. Shyv's passive increase each time you rank her R and only her ult. As for the Duration agument you have a point but +5 MR and AR still nothing and In later game when burst damage shred you Apart. Plus Annie's Sheild will grant Plus 50 magic and armor at rank 5. Which she can spam at with lowering cool down while Shyv requires full furry. So when both are level 18 Annie shield is stronger then Shyv passive.

AccountaBilabudy1/23/2015, 3:24:16 PM1 votes

Shyvana and Trundle suffer from the same weakness which is no good CC and being EASILY kited. They both have good kits, are strong when fighting vs melees who stand there and take it, but as soon as you try to dive onto that Vayne or Cait or Kalista its nearly impossible to get a hold of them.

You can be 8-0 with 250 cs with a BorK and Sunfire and Randuiins, but good fucking luck trying to kill that Vayne with a BorK and Phantom Dancer.

JChaosMaster1/23/2015, 6:37:40 PM1 votes

I agree a bit on Trundle but his passive is still nice with Spirit increasing the amount he gets back. This gives him pretty decend early sustain to stay in lain. Shyv does have some chase potential IF she has her ult but after that yea is she did Rush a Vayne or Kalista the bonus from her passive would be completely junk against them after Level 6.

B3ER1/23/2015, 7:13:15 PM1 votes

Rito: "Shyvana isn't allowed to have CC, otherwise she'll have too much in her kit without much counterplay."

Azir Cute

JChaosMaster1/28/2015, 1:32:53 AM1 votes

Anyone else have any ideas

JChaosMaster1/30/2015, 6:11:29 PM1 votes

[–]Zerksys 1 point 2 days ago* on http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2ttpzf/the_strength_of_shyvana_and_dragons_descent/?sort=new

Shyv needs more than just buffs. Her kit suffers from the same problems that people like nasus, ryze, udyr, warwick, etc... and the problem is that their kits are too linear. There's not enough ways to play them creatively and when played well (and the champion is viable) their is not much counterplay to their kits.

She needs a minor rework in order to give players room to make good plays both mechanically and in decision making. Also for god's sake either make that fury bar invisible to enemies or give it some use other than an indicator for when your ult is up. My proposed changes are these. I feel that they give her enough power to do what she's good at while maintaining key weaknesses in her kit that can be exploited for counterplay.

Passive: Dragonborn

Shyvana gains 2/3/4/5 armor and magic resist for 3 seconds upon autoattacking. Autoattacking champions gains 2 armor and magic resist. Capped at 6/12/18/24 (up from 5/10/15/20 flat) Dragonform: Shyvana gains 5/10/15/20 armor and magic resist (shyvana's autoattacks double these bonuses for 3 seconds) up from a flat 10/20/30/40

*Her passive is the most problematic thing in her kit. Passives that give free stats without conditions shouldn't exist. At least now the stat gain is conditional upon you using your autoattacks to sustain those free stats. This is consistent with her theme of "you must auto things in order to be powerful." Base values for her stats might have to be changed for early game in order to compensate. This change accentuates her power as a duelist and as a teamfighter, but makes her weak to poke. *

Q: Twin bite No change

W: Burnout See change on flamebreath

E: Flamebreath

Autoattacks against targets with the flamebreath mark deal 10 percent of target's health as magic damage consuming 5 fury after 3 successive auto-attacks rather than 2 percent per hit. (300 max vs. monsters).

If burnout damages a target marked by flamebreath, shyvana gains health regeneration per second equal to 0.1/0.2/0.5 percent (doubled against champions) of her max health per target. Doing so will consume 3 fury per second.

Dragonform: flamebreath mark no longer consumes fury

This change addresses a key problem that shyvana has both in the jungle and in lane. A lack of sustain on a champion without viable CC makes the champion either too weak or too strong due the necessity of flat tank stats. Sustain allows her to lane without being bullied too hard by ranged top laners and allows her to jungle without dying. This also allows for creative counterplay options as enemy laners can bully her away from minions in order to deny the regen. Her fury bar now has a use other than being a decoration.

Ultimate: Dragon's descent

Fury moved to passive to be available at level 1. Free fury regen removed until level dragon's descent is taken at level 6. Fixed: Shyvana's ultimate now pushes like it is meant to.

I cannot tell you how annoying it is as a shyvana player that your ultimate does not push targets that you ult into for the entire length of the dash. Fix this and you'll have a champion that can be balanced.

I like this idea

Strident1/30/2015, 6:21:17 PM1 votes

I think you need to improve your game knowledge. The passive very clearly tells you you get 5 Armor and 5 MR at levels 1-5, 10 Armor and 10 MR at levels 6-10, 15 Armor and 15 MR at levels 11-15, and 20 Armor and 20 MR at levels 16-18.

This passive doubles when you are in dragon form, so it is conditionally 20/30/40.

Annie is a much more immobile champion who's passive armor and magic resist is available half the time.

After also onsidering that this ability is a spell and Shyvana's is a passive, and that Shyvana is resourceless sides her ult, the fact that Shyvana's passive is weaker is not surprising.

I agree that Shyvana could get a buff, but I don't agree the passive being stronger numbers wise is the right way to go about it.

pleep1/19/2015, 5:58:22 AM1 votes

her passive is only really a factor in dragon form

JChaosMaster1/30/2015, 11:04:58 PM1 votes

Strident thank you for the FYI and your agreement. in a small sense. I started posting mine in other's because it is my view and I will post other's idea's and links in mine to spread the feelings of many. However amoung them mine is that Really only her Passive needs to be changed. Something like they did to Tristana. With a change or two her passive and tightening up her ult. Shyvana could easily be a good "Balanced" champ in the new season.

As for the Passive I think Shyvana's kit over all is fine. The stronger numbers "which I don't understand" was just a idea. I was just using Annie as a example in her 1 active is stronger then Shyvana's whole passive. It was again on the idea at level 3 Annie gets a better boost Still then Shyvana until level 6-10. Then by 18 when both them are max Annie is still more potent. In another post I went into detail about how she match's up against Renkton and Nasus, so if you think there is a champ who is closer to Shyvana's style I will use them instead. Now as to the passive most passive cover up weak spot's or complete a Champ build. You gave me all the prof I needed really because the Official site doesn't talk about her passive nor does it in game. Even the wiki didn't say anything last time I checked. I just remember the few customs I ran to see had her passive increase with each Rank her dragon was. So thanks for that.

If you or anyone see this can you post at what Point in time the mid game start on Rift, I only really know Tree Line where things run a bit different.

But by breaking it really down that way does show just how more useless it really is. Shyvana's passive really only has any usefulness in the VERY early game before everyone is really level three. At best you can delay on piece of cloth armor until level 15. That's really nothing to make worth mention's if enemy team has a decent/good Burst anything. The way the game sites sustain really only matters in jungle.

Again I only play tree line which does carry a few different rules but most part they are the same to. Just there we start with boots+basic item. Which is how I can see just how fast shyvana's passive dies off. In tree line most tank's start with boots, dorron shield or cloth armor. Right there without rune's or masteries I have a whole 5 Arm/MR above my enemy. In tree line there are only 2 lanes. So I can see where some champs can fall behind quickly where other don't. Because in 3's you Normally have 1 burst AP, 1 tank, 1 ADC. In the treeline 15 minutes is basically near end game depending if you can get everyone to surrender. With all the 3's I've played I never really seen the tank be the one to carry the team to victory from udder defeat. But again unlike in 5's in 3's tank/off tank's are some of the most hard to deal with.

Like that say on you tube If you care enough please leave a vote and if you want to leave a comment do so. I will be checking do discuses idea's or thought's on the subject. Also look at the other current Buff Shyvana boards Posted below:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/qXi39lIh-the-strength-of-shyvana-and-dragons-descent?show=flat&page=3

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8AU00VBr-shyvana-doesnt-suck-she-just-lacks-utilitycc?show=flat&page=4

JChaosMaster1/19/2015, 3:27:49 PM1 votes

That's really my true over all point. At level six she can get her ult and by now I think Shyvana has like 5 extra mr and arm from her passive. When she transformes she will have 10. Annie, "who I love" still has +20 of both with a rank 1 molten shield. You could agruee that it equal because it only last 6 seconds it works but in unless your in battle you don't need to care about it.

When I mention scaling it was a thought taken from Vladimir. Something like for every 4 AD points she get's her armor increases %, and for every 100 hp she gets her MR increases %. So then when she transforms it will double while she is in her dragon state. The percent's would be low and still only meaning full in dragon keeping her from going super OP instantly making her a good Late game champ.

The reason I pick those for example is because it's what she already has build in her. Building HP she could still build into a tank but would have more MR then most allowing her to chase/hunt the squishy Ap type's like Annie while in jungle or in team fights. If she build AD and gets armor she would have faster/easier clearing times in jungle and battling in top.

Ultîma1/19/2015, 4:58:42 PM1 votes

I think Shyvanna could have a bit more to her kit, however that is to say that buffing her stats is the wrong way to go.

Shyvanna becomes decently tanky post-6 as it is, and is a pushing god in top lane. While the E on-hit effect is neat, I always find it a bit underwhelming as I feel it should give her an additional movement speed boost towards marked targets for her to not be so reliant on her W to go in on the offense. Shyvanna's problem isn't really that she is weak, but rather that her kit isn't all that interesting to begin with.

EnvyDragon1/19/2015, 5:16:45 PM1 votes

Comparing a limited-window ability to an always-on passive seems kind of silly to me. It's like saying Garen's passive is useless because Soraka can heal for so much more on Q hit.

That said, Shyvana's passive is boring as hell and I'd love if it got reworked to matter a little more. Why give passive stats when you can just raise her literal base stats to the same point?