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Some thoughts on Dynamic Queue as a true Solo Player since day 1.

Chocolate Frog··218 votes·8,119 views

Hey guys, I originally wrote some stuff on Reddit, but I figured this is a better place to voice our concerns since it's the official Riot Boards.

I've been playing this game since around season 3 ( Jinx or Lucian release, don't remember which came first) and I don't know if it's just the nostalgia, but the game was so much more fun back then.

I enjoyed learning about the game, playing the game myself, observing how people carried games, watching streams, even carrying myself on odd occasions.

It felt like a unique and rewarding challenge, queue'ing up to grind some soloQ.

When they first announced Dynamic Queue I figured it would be like teambuilder, or the new type game mode that people play in place of normals.

I didn't think that Riot would actually remove the best part of their game, its competitiveness.

We were constantly reassured that Riot would do no such crazy thing and here are the communications from Riot on the issue (credit to Reddit user /u/baberg for compiling the sources);

  • January 19th, Riot Lyte said "a few weeks after the season start" Source)
  • February 4th Riot Lyte updates it to "a month or two" Source)
  • March 3rd, a Tweet from @RiotSupport said it was "a month and a half" away Source)
  • March 22nd from Riot Socrates, it became "...we're concerned about the impact solo queue will have on matchmaking as a whole, and we’re assessing how to best proceed. Once we've fixed match times and position selection, we’ll have a better update on other queues." Source)
  • And in a reply to that March 22nd post Riot Socrates confirmed (emphasis mine): "We'll be honest: there's definitely a world in which solo queue doesn't return, but we'd rather keep it on the table as we work through these issues before making a final decision." Source)

Now, a couple days ago, a video from Riot Korea hit the frontpage, and we saw a Rioter saying that he feels as if they've lied to the players.

I just want to say that I feel the way Riot has handled this issue is very sad.

Here's a comment summarizing my thoughts when the Korean Rioter made his statement;

This is sad as fuck.

Like I would have been pissed either way, but I would have respected Riot much more if they had just said from the beginning; "This is how it's gonna be, deal with it or just quit."

But this, this treating of your probably most dedicated player group (the soloQ grinders) as if they're 5 year old children and you're just waiting for them to forget about the chocolate you promised them.

It's disgusting.

Not even gonna go in to the fact that pretty much every single person who actually matters, who knows how to play the game and who knows how this game works (the pros), have said it's a terrible decision.

And all for what?

To appeal to some casual fucks who log on once a week on saturdays to play a game with their buddies, and to let them have a false sense of ranking/achievement.

Something they're not putting into the equation though, is that the top 1%, the pros, the ex-pros, the streamers, these people are the ones who drive the masses. They're the ones doing your advertising.

And every single one of them hates Dynamic Queue.

Keep pissing them off, and you'll eventually get them to quit, taking their viewers/fanbases with them.

Of course, no constructive critisicm is complete without offering some solutions.

I'll add one more comment which contains what I think is the best solution, and after that I'd be very happy to hear what you guys think on this issue.

Some of you may know, this topic is now banned from being talked about on /r/leagueoflegends.

I severely disagree with the effort to silence people, when many people actually do want to talk about this very major change to the game we all enjoy.

Here's my solution;

How do you measure skill in a team game with 5 members?

Logically, if our end goal is true competitive integrity I see 2 ways;

#1) Measure the team as a single unit, AKA Ranked 5's.

If we win as a team and lose as a team, then it does make sense that we are an addition of all our skills and weaknesses and need to be measured as a collective 5.

The problem with this is that very few people have 5 friends all within the same skill level, all who have time schedules which are compatible with each other and actually want to constantly play with each other.

#2) Every man for himself, AKA SoloQ.

The old system was indeed flawed, as it allowed you to bring in another person of your choice.

While this did mess with the fairness of games (as admitted by Riot, since in previous seasons they made the opposing team of duo queues slightly higher in MMR to compensate), it was of a small enough impact to be negligible. It was a tolerable flaw.

True SoloQ on the other hand, is the only way individual skill can be accurately measured in a team game.

No duo's, no friends, every single person starting the game under the exact same conditions, being randomly matched with 4 other players at the same MMR level.

Playing enough games, and being the only constant of all your games, this system will give you a true represantation of your skill.

Now enter Dynamic Queue;

Think of all the possible variations between 2 teams.

1+4, 2+2+1, 2+3, 1+1+1+1+1, 3+1+1, I could go on listing but I'm lazy and bad at math so I'll probably forget some anyways, but you get the idea.

So the system has to assess all of these variables, make sure both teams have equal amounts of premades and same conditions if possible(for example a 3 man premade and 2 solo players on both sides), also take into account MMR ranges, and then check to see if one of their preferred roles are available.

Given the size of the League of Legends playerbase, theoretically, after a long enough wait, the system will find a suitable matchup.

But how long will the queue time be?

30 minutes? 50 minutes? 70 minutes?

Recieving complaints all day every day about queue times, Riot will of course choose to decrease the system accuracy in exchange for finding quicker matches.

It will broaden the acceptable MMR gap exponentially as time starts stacking up, desperately trying to just find 10 people to put in a game together, and that's how you end up with situations like this.

Riot could potentially be able to implement fair matches into Dynamic Queue, but it would come at the cost of staggeringly long queue times.

Ain't nobody gonna wait an hour for a game of League.

What do I think the best solution would be?

1) Make Dynamic Queue the new Normal Game Mode. Let'em have a Party MMR or whatever if it makes them happy.

2) Implement True SoloQ, no duo's, every man for himself.

3) Bring back ranked 5's.

By bringing back Ranked 5's as well, people who actually want to compete with their friends and be measured as a collective unit, have a way to do so.

SoloQ makes the dedicated soloQ grinders happy.

The Casuals have their own Party MMR as well, and can play with as many friends as they have online at that moment, whenever, wherever they like, and they get something to show for it. (Party MMR specific borders, icons, wards, whatever the season rewards are.)

Please, don't refrain from talking about this issue, and whether you support SoloQ or not, contribute to the discussion.

The moment we stop talking and just leave everything to the flow is the moment we've given up on the game we all love.

129 Comments

iainB8544 votes

Keep up the passion guys. I don't think I've ever seen so many upvoted threads about a particular change in LoL until this one. Don't rest and keep this up... I really want Riot to reconsider and give us back Solo Q! I love the competitiveness of this game and I find it so hard to enjoy with Dynamic Queue...

Velzard of Koz8 votes

I am afraid spamming the boards and circa 50 - 200 upvotes will not make them do anything, because it is fraction of their playerbase. In case of changes that are not tradeoff (like Master Yi faster dance on Ult), they'd listen, but with this issue? They'd rather look at their data. And Riot claims more players enjoy DynaQ.

The problem is that many players who said their opinion there enjoy it because they avoid toxicity and afkers. So instead of creating inteligently designed system that would be able to catch up probably toxic players and creating division of employeers who would judge it with more efficiency, toxicity is beaten this way. And so even though the reason why those people support DynaQ is because of Riot's inability to fight toxic people, there is this paradox that Riot's inability to work on perfectness of one system makes the other more appealing. Then there are those boosted by the system who, of course, won't complain.

It's the "Dominion failure effect". If enough resources, design and care would be given into Dominion and SoloQ, they might aspire to be successful, but because Riot has chosen shorter and easier path, decision better from bussiness point of view, they were covered and outcast by seemingy more successful solution for the practical majority. People in the far past has chosen blaming and burning alive others instead of realising their own mistakes, because people will find more appealing the easier solution.

There is simply too many aspects on DynaQ which are positive for what practical majority seeks (for some toxicity beating, for some relax with friend, for some simply fun with friends, for some teambuilder substitution, for some team ranked substitution, for some elo boosting) and for what Riot seeks (less problems to solve, more motivation to invite players and increase the playerbase, more profit), so even If they'll once release SoloQ, it won't have enough attention (less access to hextech Chests, for example), the way they favoritize SR over ARAM. DynaQ Ranked Premades get "all the love", other things are just secondary.

Also, some people choose the path of lesser evil. Is DynaQ as good as Teambuilder in the means of choosing what you really want to play? No. Is it enough? Yes. So while many Teambuilderers rant, others go to DynaQ. Is DynaQ as good as Ranked Teams in the means of fairness? No. I it enough? Yes. So while many Rankedteamers rant, others go to DynaQ. Is DynaQ as good as Solo/DuoQ was in the means of solo/duo strangerplay and fairness? No. Is it enough? Yes. So while many SoloQers rant, others go to DynaQ. And here you have majority for one true and only que to rule them all. Is it still accurate the way it is put? No. But there's nothing we can do about it.

I would prefer pure SoloQ, too, but over time recently I ceased to care. I'd recommend you either:

  1. Assimilate and find friends to play with for 5v5
  2. Limit your playing for ARAM/Normals/RotoQ
  3. Stop playing at all It will make you more happy. Should you do this? No, If you really want SoloQ, I'm glad for you, put I can guarantee you that If you assimilate and become the part of "elite" or find another game you will be happier, since it seems there is nothing to do anyways.
Elikain4 votes

They have decided that Summoners Rift is the experience they wanted to support fully and Dominion has proven not to be fun as they had hoped. Even through their continual support for years, Dominion playerbase has been slowly dying off and they have finally decided that removing it would free up the resources they had reserved, for the potential of doing something else the community might enjoy. The opportunity is there, now.

As far as the removal of content goes:

Riot is committed not to remove champions, they are committed to updating them or reworking them. They feel these are worth the trouble. I'm sure that the easiest part of this would be to say "fuck it" and press "delete" and yet they didn't do it.

But more serious projects, that require a lot of resources, also require a lot of thought and planning and as such (if it turns out to be a waste), it may get cut in favor of freeing up said resources for something else in the future. Wasn't Dominion a result of Magma Chamber hype? Oh, how you guys were hyped about that map and even i was. And nothing came out of it. The project in question tried to freshen up the League formula that has worked for years, and that is to provide a different objective - while Summoner's Rift was the best and most successful experience and no one wanted to adapt to something else. It was merely consumer's hype, where the content is interesting and fun for a while and then suddenly drops out of favor - forgotten until Riot makes a tough decision to act and remove the uninteresting content.|

Rotating Game Modes prove my point as well. Every other mode was fun for a limited time and then boards were saying "Oh, Doom Bots were stupid after 4 games". I personally enjoyed Ascension because it showcased the story of Shurima and actually brought Dominion in the spotlight, once again. URF seemed to have the most success and fun factor tied to it but even that fun would dwindle after some time, once all champions have been tested and the best, easiest, and most annoying combination would pop up in teams. If it was permanent, Riot would have to commit to balancing it constantly, for only a fraction of the playerbase.

ARAM is a fool around mode, that's why it exists and is polular. Summoner's Rift is the default experience and why that's so popular. Even Twisted Treeline is also dying, and i was a dedicated player to that map. But you don't see me on boards talking about how Riot doesn't care about me - the interest in that map is just not there anymore.

All the major content and competitions revolve around Summoner's Rift.

Augment ELO5 votes

Same. I really want this game to be a judgement of my skill. Last game I had a "premade 4" on my team. This premade 4 went Kennen ADC, Leona Top, J4 Mid, and Zyra Support. More or less troll picks, and they weren't good players either. I went 8/0/5 in the early game, but since the enemy team was a premade 4 in a Skype call with tryhard picks there was no way to beat them and I went 13/5 in a loss. All premade 4's are not equal, please bring back SoloQ!

PDE5 Inhib23 votes

I've seen a hella lot more "I'm quitting League" posts this season that ever before. Probably because they are using business major logic while making their decisions. Some of the shit they've been doing is so blatantly bad that I'm not sure what they are doing.

Zeal Seeker18 votes

I feel like riot is deaf, or just plain ignoring the situation. They haven't done anything to try fix the problem, they presented no ideas for a solution. It's been months now since the first promise of solo queue and all they have done is stall.

shyv35 votes

they're not deaf, people make a million posts a day asking for solo q, they know we want it. they just don't care.

pushing social play brings money in. people have more league friends, they buy gifts for them, they get excited about new skins together, they want to match skins with their friends. these are all things that have encouraged me to spend money on the game before.

and i didn't mind it. i liked playing normals with my friends, getting a full pool party team together, buying my friends skins and cute icons and stuff. it was fun.

but now i don't spend money on the game. the RP that i have in my account is the last RP i will ever buy. or at least until this shit gets fixed. which it won't, because riot only cares about money.

if you think they aren't listening, do more than just make posts on the boards which they can easily ignore. stop spending money on the game, encourage your friends to stop spending money on the game, stop playing ranked if you really hate it that much.

Chocolate Frog26 votes

Yep, I've also put a hold on my RP purchases for now.

Free to play games like this survive on whales.

Those guys who have like 5 skins for each champ, the ones who instantly purchase every new bundle, the ones who mystery gift everyone to get the exclusive summoner icons.

And guess how many of those whales are SoloQ enthusiasts?

I used to be one of those people, and up until today, I never really regretted that decision.

If not on League, I would have spent that money on something equally as frivolous to entertain myself.

Like, I want to throw my money at Riot, but they are making it extremely difficult for me to do so.

shyv7 votes

oh trust me same. i have a skin for every champ i play. multiple skins for a lot of them. lots of icons, rune pages, changed my summoner name a bunch of times (even before it became an IP dump and i had to spend RP on it)

i've been playing this game for a long time and i've spent a pretty decent amount of money on it. i don't regret it either. i had fun while it lasted. i'm just saying that until dynamic queue stops sucking dick i'm done spending money. no matter how tempting new skins might be, the RP in my account is the last RP i will ever use. gotta make it count.

Captain Aishi3 votes

I agree with that so much, I've been playing league since the lee sin release, and ranked since season 3, but i'm not playing ranked anymore until they bring back soloQ, just as i'm not spending any money on RP until they fix pool party Renekton

Elikain1 votes

It's funny that you say that. The game that doesn't require of you to pay a dime to play or even progress in it, survives on people who willingly pay them money. That player pool is extremely small and don't think they alone cover enough expenses to keep Riot and their entire network working. It's like you're saying these people alone are so rich that their pocket change to Riot is 100k a year, per a "whale" player.

Get me some real facts, instead of talking like that.

Chocolate Frog3 votes

We can't, because Riot doesn't release official numbers on these topics.

Not that they are obliged to or anything, but still.

I expanded more on why I think this way on this comment here.

The article claiming 0.15% of players bring in 50% of the revenue is quite interesting.

Trumpet5 votes

But does promoting social play really bring in more money for the long term?

If we look at the hardcore base of fans, the ones that are getting pissed off with these changes, they probably like in many other games fronted most of the money spent on this game.

It seems VERY short sighted to me to make this change AND to lie about it.

Now, the marketer in me sees this as a great choice for short term profits, but lacking in long term support as the "social players" will ditch this game when the next flashy thing comes out leaving the game a husk of what it was as the hardcore dropped out too.

I am sure that there is a way to cater to both groups, the one that ensures the long term success of the game, and the short term "burst spenders" of the casual players. But I really don't know what it is, however this model that riot is taking really destroys brand credibility, which is all they have. So yes next quarter will be amazing for them, but 1.5 years from now, not so much.

Thumpin4 votes

I'm just holding out for a response to this whole mess early this week. The statement from Riot Korea came out really late last week, tbh I didn't expect any response over the weekend. But if there isn't anything by next week I don't see the situation or my trust in Riot becoming any better.

612X0dbmDS16 votes

This was a well written post. You said everything needed to be said and I have nothing to add but an upvote.

Nαgma11 votes

Not even gonna go in to the fact that pretty much every single person who actually matters, who knows how to play the game and who knows how this game works (the pros), have said it's a terrible decision. And all for what? To appeal to some casual fucks who log on once a week on saturdays to play a game with their buddies, and to let them have a false sense of ranking/achievement. Something they're not putting into the equation though, is that the top 1%, the pros, the ex-pros, the streamers, these people are the ones who drive the masses. They're the ones doing your advertising. And every single one of them hates Dynamic Queue.

i totaly agree here , riot made a systeme for casuals cleary .. and **they didnt care about the one who promotes their games ** the top elo players and streamers who are most of the time high elo League couldnt be so populare without the famous streameurs promoting this game during 6 years .

https://twitter.com/FroggenLoL/status/718484846008483841 https://twitter.com/FroggenLoL/status/718484464817606656 https://twitter.com/FORG1VENGRE/status/717784137147527168

Thats just sad to see that , 2 monster of the solo q not able to play in a decent solo q systeme anymore . forgiven was top 1 of the ladder just by playing solo ( back when duo q was abusable like trio q ) . Thats sad because we will never see new names , riot fcked competitive integrity : a team is looking for a player -> pick up the best solo q players players who are not in a team will be hard to find since climbing challenger elo looks so fcking hard to do SOLO After a 40 min q -> tag solo => vs trioq | tag trioq => vs 5 man | tag 5 man => vs LCS team. RIP OR you get matched with diamonds player .

i feel bad for them because being matched with diamonds when you are challenger is like being gold 1 and being matched with Silver 4 trashs .

In my opinion the only way to fix dynamic q is to give it a solo q ladder/mmr ( if you tag solo you gain LP/mmr in the solo q ladder , and if you tagg as premades you gain lp/mmr in your premade ladder ) , delete 4 man premades and make 100% of trioq get matched with a duo . BUT bring back solo q is the most easy way to fix the issues .

Nαgma19 votes

riot didnt give us a single decent answer about solo q since the beggining . and now they mute reddit , because the most of solo q topics got thousands of upvote . socrates and lyte were bored to get their faillur thrown at their face every day . i guess thats just not acceptabble

Tik1159 votes

unfortunately Riot clearly have their heads in the sand hoping we will all forget.

The thing is this isn't like the Karma, Cass, Morde or Sona rework which affected (arguably) a small amount of players this affects the MAJORITY of players.

And here's the thing Dynamic que in normals? sure I mean when I want to play with friends and do dumb stuff like Heimer and Sol bot lane I'd go to normals so I can do that but in Ranked? if friends want to do ranked you could duo, have more then 1 friend? well sure that's a bit of a problem but from what i've seen many people who are friends use to do ranked solo to get an accurate judgement of their skill.

And I'm almost certain they'll never bring solo que back, Riot has NEVER reverted anything big once it's left the PBE, people wanted the mordes and cass rework reverted but instead kept that mess on, or when Olaf was Olaf'd, could of reverted, didn't, how quickly would our problems be solved if they just readded the old ranked? it should be easy unless they deleted all the coding for it (Which by the way, Rule 1 of game development, back up your shit, hand in your game dev badge if you deleted all coding and back ups related to it riot) but they won't do it, to them it's always "We know best, we did best" instead of going back to the drawing board they just throw everything to make it stick.

I mean at this point their hands close to the fire, they keep doing stuff like this they're gonna get burnt

I'm pretty sure all of us just want them to stop shitting round the bush and simply answer the question bluntly

Are we getting SoloQ yes or no?

(You know they'll stall again, or not, prove me wrong Riot)

Akeydel8 votes

Here's an alternate perspective which I think might help.

we saw a Rioter saying that he feels as if they've lied to the players.

The reason said Rioter feels guilty is because they DID promise SoloQ. But it wasn't an executive decision to scrap it, one that they lied about for months. It was a slow realization that, simply because of the nature of the two, "SoloQ is not possible with DynamicQ", one they came to after spending 3 months trying to figure out a solution.

By the time the New Champ Select Update came around, they fully understood the situation and wanted to let the community down easy. (I imagine the backlash would have been much worse it the update had said "we can't do SoloQ, deal with it")

There still might be a solution for people who want to play against only solo player ever. But I very highly doubt it.

Chocolate Frog13 votes

I appreciate your optimism, but please don't tell me that the developers of a billion dollar game company did not know this from day 1.

  • Dynamic Q allows for queueing of up to 5 people.
  • Solo Players have absolutely zero incentive to play Dynamic, they have none of the rewards(hextech, IP bonuses etc.) and they have none of the advantages ( voice comms, familiarity with teammates play styles), while they recieve the full unpleasantness of being forced to play with and against premades, so I think it's fair to assume that if Solo Q exists, no solo players will play Dynamic Q.
  • If no Solo players are playing, 4-man premades can never be matched up, the whole concept of Dynamic Q goes out the window.

They say; "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I find it impossible to believe billion dollar developers could be that stupid.

That's why I believe it was a lie, and that they never intended to release Solo Q in the first place.

Elikain3 votes

That is the exact problem Riot faces and players refuse to believe in the fact that, whatever they promised, may have slowly went the other way. And this post from a Rioter:

There's a world in which solo queue doesn't exist

also says that there's a small chance solo queue might not happen. It turns out that this situation actually happened, and players are outraged that even a 1% chance is not 0. Instead, their theories are that Riot lied, that they hyped them up to the very and end then they said: "solo queue is not coming, it was just a prank", leaving it at that.

The same thing happened with Magma Chamber, the map that was hyped to be a 6v6, SR-like experience and then Riot came to a conclusion that this project would not be a success - therefore got reworked into Dominion. And look what happened with that map as well - the player base was not there and it got removed because the costs of keeping it alive were greatly outweighing the gains - and this isn't about the money earned from that, it's about the playerbase and their satisfaction. There were too much problems to solve, it wasn't just about the art and balance. SR was the map that has existed for years and it's still the most popular (and competitive) experience that, as you can see, cannot be substituted just like that. It's something that's core to League's identity and pretending like something can easily be added into the mix, clearly doesn't work.

Rotating game modes were proof of that. Various game modes were popular for about a week, where the fun factor just dropped even after a few games. Rotating game modes were a test, to see whether such a mode can be maintained for a longer period of time. It can't. It is a dish best served fresh and hot and after running its course, everyone simply defaults to SR.

So Riot decided to fully support SR, because it was their best, most popular and even competitive experience that has withstood the test of time.

But yea, let other people take a steaming dump in RIot's mouth every time they don't like something and let them talk about their feelings getting hurt instead of having facts and data to back up their claims.

I am also a part of the playerbase that Riot "lied" to, and i don't even feel slightly offended or triggered like everyone else is. And we have these threads telling people how everyone should feel, like i can't think for myself or that if i am not a part of their herd, my opinion is not important - but theirs is.

Just like Tumblr feminazism - as soon as all these "men are oppressive" posts come up and a woman who doesn't feel the same way makes her opinion public, they immediately turn on one of their own because there's no freedom of speech in that religion.

Akeydel1 votes

I appreciate 100% of your post, well written and explained, thanks for the response.

Off topic, i thought Magma Chamber was the 1v1 map for this event, (also unreleased unfortunately), is that an adaptation of an earlier idea?

Elikain2 votes

Actually, that was a part of Magma Chamber that was for the event, what we now know as ARAM. Before that, this map was the Proving Grounds and i believe ARAM was reworked for the Freljord Event.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ibk_o4UGGM/maxresdefault.jpg This is how Magma Chamber would have looked like, and i believe there should have been teleports top and bottom middle of the map, that would let you traverse to the other side or have some sort of special relics to fight over. I don't really remember the exact details of the map, it was quite some time ago. To this day, i still think this would have been awesome but Riot did get themselves burned a few times like that and we don't generally want this kind of content. Their surveys of us tell them this exact thing and then people get mad when they announce their findings - calling them lairs and how they rig their own data - when on the other side, we are the reason why Dominion and Twisted Treeline are forgotten.

Riot didn't neglect these maps, we did. And they responded by removing it because the upkeep was high. And now, we're giving them flak for something we didn't even notice existed.

Cenobite Azaziel8 votes

The game peaked and is now in free fall. Tencent bought the whole company. The old owners and most of game designers are now keeping LoL on life support just grab a little cash before it falls into "meh" state in 1 or 2 years.

"Oh where are the evidences?" 1- League don't publish their total player base anymore. It is a total mystery how many ppl are playing and if the game is growing. When a game is doing fine companies boast about it, showing numbers and charts, like used to do in 2013/2014. When it is going bad (see JP x-box one sales =T), they don't speak about it.

2- Servers are shutting down. "But we have NA, OCE etc.." Yes. Riot is shutting down servers. Ladders, especific servers. See dominion. It is gone. Ranked team? Gone. All solidified to become one queue. They are cutting corners with servers expense.

3- Changing design dogmas. New champions all have something that the old designers thought it would be an ass to deal with. See TahmKench Kalista Bard trolling or Ekko excessive burden of knowledge or RekSai view. They reached the peak of design and are braking a few rules.

4- @Lyte 2014 hated voice chat. Talked about unfair advantage and increase of toxicity if you were obligated to use it. Now he's dead silent on the subject that in a 4/1 team you are practically forced into a voice chat or pay the price of being the team's leper, isolated with no ping and totally ignored.

5- Dynamic queue is introduced into the game not to make it fair or more fun. Hell, you can have a lot of fun in normal games with troll comps. When they throw you into ranked with team they want you to become a forced community. To feel peer pressure to buy stuff. "Oh see my new skin? ". "Come on dude, give me a skin it is my birthday ". They are throwing in the trash can all the work they did to make lol and "e-sport" (hate that word) taking a dump on the "soloqueue" natural habitat of pro players.

6- While the game is 6 years old and SCRIPTING (LUA script, BOL etc..) and BOTING (same) are a know problem, there is no VAC. There is no immediate answer to cheating. Some bans here and there but no solid tool to wreck the cheaters.

7- Elo boosting is a problem. Probably even bigger now with dynamic queue.

8- April fools "Hey, you like draven right? Draven draven ! Draven! Gimme you cash! Free icons? Hell no. Use you ip (ip sink) and the rest of it only if you buy anything.

9- Hextech crafting. Yay... introduction of RGN for key+RGN for opening. A.K.A. treat your customer as a addicted gambler. We only want cash from the whales =].

10- You probably won't see any more free stuff in this game. Free ward skin for team ranked? Gone with the ladder. Free sportsmanship? Nah, that is hextech crafting now. I hope this doesn't become a Dungeon Keeper portable.

11- The game is too harsh on new players. Hell I'm playing it for 3~4 years and I still have 20 champions I don't own (bought some with RP and my runes pages were bough with RP). Good luck for the begginers. I don't try to recruit anyone to this game. Meaning the game is focused in its early adopters or is trying to get new customers. It is impossible to full fill all the desires of the two player bases.

Steven Mcburn7 votes

At this point riot should just man up and do the easiest thing they can do.

Remove 4 man as an option. Boom. Fixed.

True solo queue, no duo's or anything. Dynamic queue with 2, 3, 5 man queues.

It's not that hard, people who want to play together can and people who don't don't have to. I don't honestly even care if the MMR and stuff is the same between the queues, let people who care about rank care about rank. I just don't want long match timers that are trying to fit in all the different random team sizes in elo ranges anymore. That shit takes ages.

Removing 4 man queues is the compromise that is needed to fix this debacle. I'm betting in terms of actual game-to-report ratios it's the most toxic anyway, I'm also willing to bet it's what slows the match making down tremendously and makes this take forever. I find it hard to believe there aren't supports queued up, especially when I hit fill to find matches and it still takes 10 minutes in silver.

ForeverLaxx5 votes

Other games with this type of system learned a long time ago that 4-man premades in a 5-man team environment cause way more problems than they're worth. For some reason, Riot chose to ignore the history and lessons of their forebears and went ahead with the system as it currently is. But then, Riot not learning lessons is what they're all about.

Chuck Charles7 votes

its not important to riot to have a competitive environment. the LCS will always be a thing even if it becomes a shitty, watered down, less popular version of itself.

games like WOW are still going even though the hardcore playerbase is gone. riot can and will continue to make money and have a popular game with league of legends even if the competitive aspect of it gets shittier and shittier. which is what will happen if this set up is left in place.

but they will be fine. the game will gone. they will still make money. i thnk people are delusional if they believe this game is just gonna disappear because it appeals to casuals. it might even make them more money in the end. it just sucks that they can't appeal to both.

i mean solo queue drives competitive. ranked 5's drive competitive. solo Q can appeal to casuals. do casuals even care about their rank anyway? thats what I don't get. the casuals dont need to play ranked with their friends because they don't really play ranked.

TNHA Baritone7 votes

And all for what?

To appeal to some casual fucks who log on once a week on saturdays to play a game with their buddies, and to let them have a false sense of ranking/achievement.

If this isn't the most believable things I've ever read....I don't know about anything anymore.

Streetlight Man6 votes

Well put

Stevev456 votes

My guess is they want the game that every one plays to be like the game the pro's play. As it was/is Solo Que, and competitive LoL are like different games. If they can force people to play on organized teams the two games will be more similar.

I liked the pick up style game that solo que provided though. I'm not interested in playing LoL in any kind of organized way.

Gene Freakz6 votes

Hey great post! I am a soloq supporter but so many posts have mentioned the fact that if Riot implements more game modes those game modes will have long queue times. I don't know the numbers of those who like soloq, dq, and everything in between. The fact is that solo queues, like me, are helping out those that want to play duos, trios, and quads because we fill a role and make queue times shorter. If dq were to be the new normal and soloq re-implemented , dq might have horrendously long queue times. That, however, is fine by me because dq can burn in hell except for the fact that you get to choose your role (unless you put fill or support in and you don't want to play support).

In all actuality Riot will not implement these huge changes in this season (or mabye at all) because that will take time and money, and that is sad because I enjoyed League a lot up until season 6. I have posted a lot about my distaste for dq and so have many others. This season will continue to be this way and people may leave or they may not. What will really affect Riot and the community is what happens in season 7. With all of the negative responses dq has received, we will have to wait and see how Riot responds to the feeling's of its player base. Will they bring back soloq or a similar game mode? We'll just have to wait and see, but once the final word is out, it could hurt Riot hence the delay and secretiveness.

The Deckowner6 votes

I am pretty sure dynamic queue will eventually cause all the high elo players to either smurf or quit the game. in high diamond/master/challenger the matchmaking is broken and queue time is extremely long.

KnKitsune5 votes

Like I would have been pissed either way, but I would have respected Riot much more if they had just said from the beginning; "This is how it's gonna be, deal with it or just quit."

If that actually happened, I'm sure Riot would have had an army of angry players(pitchforks and all) outside their headquarters. Or losing 80% of their playerbase, thus making stock holders take back their stocks because theres no reason to invest in a company that lost almost all of their customers in 1 week or 2.

Nagma is back5 votes

@RIOTSOCRATES @RIOTLYTE WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU ???

Nagma is back4 votes

why they cant reply a single fcking thread

Here Comes Six6 votes

Lytes on vacation. I think Socrates doesn't give a shit.

zmmby5 votes

Good argument. Upvoted and signed.

rtbf2256182415 votes

Tbh if Season 7 will be like this, then i've lost all hope. Because right now i can hope they're just experimenting.

Oerba No Naja4 votes

i like your ideas , it lmakes everyone happy and it respect competitive integrity .

Invictus Unbent4 votes

Signed and upvoted. I haven't touched Ranked this season, I've only played normal games. Please make the ranked system competitive again.

Scramrail4 votes

They say that the data supports the notion that Dynamic Q is more popular, yet they never indicate where that data is coming from. Ive certainly never been asked plainly if I would prefer solo Q over dynamic Q (and im not even setting foot into ranked without Solo Q).

The issue I take with this entire move is that they already had a competitive ladder for people to play 5v5 with their friends, ranked 5s, but nowhere in the entirety of this game is there a place for purely solo Q players to challenge themselves competitively. The only thing we had was ranked, but even that had duo Qs as the OP pointed out. But even still, I would much prefer the old solo Q back if it meant getting rid of dynamic Q.

From where im sitting, the only reason Riot doesn't want to release a purely solo Q is because they know it will kill dynamic Q by massively increasing queue times for all sub-5 man teams, and since dynamic Q is their baby they absolutely don't want to do that, even if the majority of the community did.

Korillo4 votes

I stopped playing over a month ago because solo queue never came, and it didn't seem like it was actually going to happen. They made that 1 save face post about it saying it was in the works, and then I just heard dead silence after that. Seeing the OP's post just confirms it I guess, SoloQ is over.

I liked playing league and could put up with the duos, but I can only play so often and being forced to try and find people to play at the same times I can play is just not realistic in my case - especially when there is a ranking system where players are separated by skill level. Most of the friends that I have I have made from other games, and we'll occasionally play league together but it's very rare, and honestly they suck at league. It's fun playing with them but I'm not going to play ranked with them because I like to have competitive games.

Eliminating soloQ loses that competitive aspect imo. I only queued for ranked solo, that's the only way I've ever played it, and I loved it. Taking this option away really sucks.

Karn Bishop3 votes

Yes, the fact that this game had a competitive nature is why it was popular in the first place, its why starcraft also got popular as well and to remove that is just slowly killing your game.

Secretlolz3 votes

Nicely done, But at this point I just hope Riot suffers a backlash bad enough to be imposible to recover from, similar to what happened to WoW

YossarianSensei3 votes

I feel like the biggest problem with DQ isn't actually the solo queuers but rather different premades have vastly different skill even if the individual players are about the same skill level

Some premades are super tryhard and some are just troll, it basically breaks the system.

Stoner Fox3 votes

Upvoted.

We need a true soloq system.

ForeverLaxx3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frog,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IRcVXOZy,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-10T18:32:12.100+0000)

Hey guys, I originally wrote some stuff on Reddit, but I figured this is a better place to voice our concerns since it's the official Riot Boards.

You'd think so, but Riot doesn't really use their own boards for anything outside of the idiotic "meme" section. Reddit is the only place they look to for player concerns, and since you stated yourself that Reddit has banned this kind of talk there (more evidence as to why that site is a complete joke), no one in Riot's office is going to see this.

Your efforts are appreciated by us players, but ultimately futile.

mogonk3 votes

Man, I thought my thread about this was the final word on the topic. I was wrong. Great post summing up the larger issues at play and why having Solo Queue in the game actually matters A LOT. Big ups.

But I stand by what I said in that post. I agree 100% with your reasoning for why Solo Queue should exist. But it's not going to happen.

1Maza3 votes

Best post on the Boards in a long time. I'm sure we'll never see a Rioter comment though.

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Gnart Even Close2 votes

Normally, I would simply disagree with these type of posts, but yours was actually incredibly well-written and acknowledged several key points. The problem simply is that playing with friends is more fun than playing by yourself, and many people want to play ranked with friends. This essentially means that to keep the player base, Riot would need both Dynamic Q and Solo Q. The issue is that this negatively affects Q time, making it less fun for both groups. I think a fair compromise would be to have Solo Q, Ranked Teams, and Dynamic Q. Dynamic Q would be with either 2 or 3 players, meaning that it would not affect or be affected by solo players going to Solo Q. When there are 4 man teams, there needs to be solo players to fill in the gap, and if that is eliminated, then there is no need to keep the solo players in the same system. I personally believe that this should all be in the same launcher, and it should adapt based on how many players are in the Q together. 1 would be Solo Q, 2 or 3 would by Dynamic Q, 4 would not be allowed, and 5 would by Ranked Teams. This should not negatively affect any of the Qs, and by forcing Dynamic Q to be with either 2 or 3 players, Q times could be significantly improved, and all groups would be satisfied. I sincerely hope that Riot deeply considers a solution like this instead of eliminating either Solo Q or Dynamic Q. If they need to finish tuning Dynamic Q first, so be it, but it would probably be easier to implement something like this sooner rather than later. Even if Dynamic Q is not taken seriously as a true ranking, at least most groups will be happier than they are now.

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