Boards›Gameplay

Concerning "Rank = Knowledge" and Elo Hell

USmellLikeSheep··21 votes·1,335 views

Editing to add: This post is not about my accounts. I only used myself here to show an example of the change in mindset I wish to share with others who think they are struggling in elo hell, or are being told to "git gud" SIMPLY because of their rank without those people playing a match with you

Rank does not always reflect your knowledge of the game. It just as often reflects your knowledge of that Rank.

I'm tired of people throwing rank around like it ONLY reflects your knowledge of the game. It doesn't. Here is my case:

My original account, Eitan Leigh or Nova Skye depending on when you last looked at it, could NOT get any higher than B3. In normals, I would play with people that would say "But you don't play like a bronze, you should be climbing out". Fact was, I could NOT! And no one knew how to help me out.

So I did the most logical thing, and started over on this account.

Original Account's History: I was introduced to League via a college gaming group. I had never played anything like this before, and honestly, I hated it the first night. I couldn't get it. I understood nothing. I couldn't even find the keys to use on the keyboard. But they made me play, and I learned how to League in a group of no less than 5 - most of which were Gold and higher. So as soon as I hit 30, I went straight for ranked, assuming I could land around the same rank as my friends.

Well, obviously, that was not enough time to learn how to play the game in general. After a year of struggling through it and never getting out of B5, I found friends and coaches to help me outside of the club (who also helped). I studied and practiced and learned, always trying to play with Gold and higher players, to see the mechanics the "good" players used. Through sweat and many tears, the next season I was able to get as high as B3 - and that was it. By this point I was getting those comments of "You don't play like a bronze" from every single coach throughout the entire season. And I started hearing about this Elo Hell.

The problem: I knew the TEAMWORK aspect of League and could execute it well, including roaming, ganking, engages and disengages - as well as objective calling. I knew the game at the end of last season, where I was still in Bronze.

What I did not know... Was how to play in Bronze. The place where teamwork does not exist and it's every man for himself. The place where your previous rank decides how people respond to your shot calling. Where no one understands what you were trying to do on that engage, where they are fifteen steps to far back (or forward), where they overextend relentlessly and yell at the support for not saving them from a 1v5.

So this account was born out of frustration Hence the name. Sheep are either dirty followers or wayward drifters. Yes, I rage-named this account. And I approached the pre-30 portion of this account as though I were once again brand new to the game. I only played with one other friend or solo, claimed no knowledge of League when I screwed up, and silently evaluated every game with a "what went right/wrong" mindset.

I learned how to solo que. I learned to keep All Chat off. I learned how to read my team's knowledge level without checking external websites. I learned how to play with what I was given - no fancy plays if the team didn't understand follow up, save abilities for disengage if they tend to stay in trouble OR engages if they were on top of roaming/ganking, let people over extend with just a single ping of warning, and most importantly - did not follow those people without the entire team present.

This has converted beautifully into exquisite high level games and tolerable low level ones. I walk away from every game either knowing I was outplayed, that I just sucked that game and it's time to turn it off for tonight , that I was carried, that my one ult turned the game around, that I knew I had supported the right carry.... In essence, every game has much more meaning than a win/loss ration with stats attached.

I have not been tilted since the creation of this account. I have just yesterday started my ranked promos, and so far am being placed among gold/silvers. In normals, every other games has a plat in it, so I can already tell that the game has placed me with more knowledgable people.

I have started watching twitch accounts again, one in particular is in Plat. And my games do not look very different from theirs. It's encouraging, and enlightening, to see the problems I see in every normals game look the same as the problems in this person's ranked.

In Conclusion Rank CAN reflect your knowledge of the game/teamwork/mechanics.

More often, though Rank ALSO reflects your knowledge of the other people in that rank.

Elo Hell is, therefore, definable as not knowing how to play to your rank. This is usually manifested in people trying to outplay their teammates to be that one carry. Learn to be carried, and learn to support the most fed person on your team no matter your role, and you will find that Elo Hell really isn't a thing to complain about.

30 Comments

Dukues4 votes

Idk man I like the first 2 paragraphs but I don't agree with everything. Your right that rank doesn't always mean skill / game knowledge. But it is an decent indicator. There are players who don't play much ranked but play a lot of normal and their general skill or knowledge is more than their rank. Also playing in bronze is different than playing in other elos.

But that doesn't mean just because you can't get out of bronze on one account means you can compete in silver on another. Since your account is new it will assume your an average player and most likely place you in silver. If you keep playing you will be demoted to bronze unless you start playing better. And if you can compete in silver on this account then you should be able to rank your other account out of silver.

So although rank does not mean everything, it is a good indication of ranked game knowledge.

Like normals yea... people are trolling, trying new champions, new builds, etc. But in ranked people are playing champions they know in roles they know and trying to win. At least... generally speaking. Its a more competitive environment and you need to learn champions/roles/the game to rank up.

USmellLikeSheep2 votes

Yea, I may end up bronze again. I'm not saying I'm great. I'm saying I've already seen a difference between the two accounts - mostly because of my mindset in the pre-30 levels of the second account.

The point of this post is to redefine elo hell and low-level's abilities to overcome it. Yes, I may be low level still. But I am 1000% more equipped to handle it this time. I could probably go back to my old account and climb quickly if I wanted to. My play style and abilities have changed.

This thread isn't about me personally. I just used myself as an example of the change in mindset. Apparently no one on these boards seem to understand that.

Dukues1 votes

I didn't really at first but now I do makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

USmellLikeSheep1 votes

I will put a note in the post to help >_>

Lord Azır3 votes

You realize the reason you're being paired with gold / silvers is because when you start your first ranked games that's where you get placed right? That's the average player and the system assumes you're average. You have to be pretty bad to decay to bronze from there which is probably going to happen. I checked your most recent games and they aren't pretty.

1/6/20 2/6/14 0/9/12

Until you get your actual placement you can't say you belong any higher than B3, your last placement.

USmellLikeSheep1 votes

I get placed with Plats/Golds regularly in norms.

Lord Azır2 votes

{quoted}

I get placed with Plats/Golds regularly in norms.

That means nothing, do you get placed with them in ranked? No, you don't. I'm diamond 3 and I get the odd silvers in my normal games. Does that mean they belong in Diamond 3? Fuck no it doesn't. I also get challenger players in my norm games, does that mean I'm as good as them?

USmellLikeSheep2 votes

I wont' know my rank until I place. I'm not saying I "deserve" anything. Your comments and almost everyone else's here are exactly what I was posting about. You all focus on "me me me". Yes my game play can suck. Yes I've had an off week - I've had way better. You guys also are only looking at KDA stats. You weren't there for the one ult that turned a fight around and subsequently, or those times I managed to be in the right part of the jungle at the right time to stop a gank in progress. Things like that aren't documented via stats. What made a difference in each of those was that I read MY TEAM'S SKILL right, and I knew who I needed to be close by, which side of the jungle to ward for them, etc. Many of those deaths were obtained getting a teammate a triple or quadra (a few times it was just my presence that started the fight as bait, and I didn't even get assists for them).

Yes, I may be placed in Bronze, but with the mindset I outlined in my post (the ONLY reason I posted), I am 1000% more prepared to deal with Bronze and probably climb out this time. I also never tilt now.

You guys need to quit telling players everything is their fault and instead start helping them change their mindset to actually grow. I couldn't get ANYONE to tell me how to do this. I had to figure it out myself. I will not be the one to make someone else struggle the same way. Telling someone to get better does not equip them to do so!

Lord Azır2 votes

{quoted}

You guys need to quit telling players everything is their fault and instead start helping them change their mindset to actually grow. I couldn't get ANYONE to tell me how to do this. I had to figure it out myself. I will not be the one to make someone else struggle the same way. Telling someone to get better does not equip them to do so!

Except it is their fault. All bronze / silver players think they deserve to be gold+ and it's elo hell or their team holding them back. Well guess what kid, it's you and only you. You are the problem not your team, the sooner you realize that the sooner you'll look at your shitty gameplay and try to improve on it

USmellLikeSheep1 votes

And you've missed the point of this thread. This thread redefines "elo hell".

Meta Phyton1 votes

It's good, what you wrote. Definitely.

Just learning how to become untiltable is really, really valuable on its own eh? I hope people listen. I've been trying to get the message across too. I reckon we make some success. Even if only 1 or 2 people see the sense in it and translate it into become tenacious - that's a huge success in my books.

colesy1 votes

lol you think higher ranked people take normals seriously? i play jungle tristana in normals, fuck off am i tryharding when there's nothing at stake.

USmellLikeSheep3 votes

So do I. That wasn't the point. The point was I never saw these levels on my old account. If I solo qued, I was lucky to see one border on my side.

Dryditch2 votes

Just gonna throw this out there. If the "average player" is in gold, then the ranked distribution shouldn't be 95% Bronze/Silver.

Rustling Bush3 votes

if you couldn't get higher then bronze 3 then you deserve to be there, "but people told me i don't play like bronze", people shouldn't stroke your ego like that, you're really not. i was put in bronze 5 this season and i climbed to bronze 1 (currently sitting at 83 lp) despite the fact that i don't normally even play ranked, it was easy. i mean i'm looking at your current account and your going things like 2/15, 1/11, 4/12, despite you being a smurf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1SNoY6HIIo

meanwhile you got elo boosters going around going 30/2 in the majority of the games because their mechanics better, and mechanics are just a extension of ones game knowledge, are you going to say that those elo booster are just getting lucky teammates? sorry bud, but the problem isn't your teammates, its you, if your not skilled enough to carry yourself then its the elo you belong in.

USmellLikeSheep2 votes

It's not stroking ego when you PAY for high level coaches from top ranking sites to have them tell you that. I didn't need my ego boosted, I needed someone to tell me how to play to my team. All the comments on this thread point back to that one point - not a single one of you guys admit that you have to play to your teams level. When people start helping others understand this instead of saying "you need to get better" or "it's everyone else's fault" - both of those responses cast blame. Why cast blame when you can simply tell them to play to their team? This actually opens low level player's eyes to not only their own play but to also that of others, and gives them a way to take accountability for the game as a whole.

Sure, I may end up back in bronze. But mentally I am 1000% more prepared to deal with it based on what I have described in this post.

ETA: I also don't consider myself a smurf. As I stated, I started this account with the mindset of a brand new player, with more experience in this type of game than my previous account. I started over completely.

Yes, I have bad stats. I don't look at them. My last game I got cussed out by the enemy mid laner that lost a fight ONLY because I managed to get a flash-heal in that turned it around. After that play, we never lost another team fight - and we were WAY down in the beginning. That doesn't show in stats.

colesy3 votes

what? "elo hell" is where you basically hit your skill cap and don't know how to git gud to progress. that'll keep happening until you hit like ... diamond 3/4 and then the game just becomes a case of, well you're good but you need to put enough time in to it.

USmellLikeSheep6 votes

You can be good at teamwork and suck at solo play. I could only win games last year where my team worked like a team. Its one thing to know mechanics, it's another to know how to play to your team.

colesy2 votes

and the reason you were only able to win when your team worked together is because you don't know how to carry yourself, and because you don't know how to carry is why you're stuck in the elo you're at.

so yeah, you hit your skill cap so you need to git gud.

USmellLikeSheep1 votes

See my response on Summoner Grey's comment as an answer to this.

colesy1 votes

from my experience smurfing, when you're playing in lower elos you basically have to operate under the assumption that if you want to make a play and you can't execute it yourself (as in, you need a team mate to follow up correctly), just don't do it. also, at times sticking with your team can be better than "doing the right thing" if doing the right thing results in your team fighting a 4v5, dying and you losing baron.

getting fed in laning phase is extremely easy though, and you'll be able to make solo plays off of your lead, so it's pretty much a non issue. enemy team tilts, you start shoving your gold lead all over the map and you'll win the game. in diamond games you can actually expect people to follow up what you do and understand better which is around the time where being a "team player" gets a lot better since you can actually expect your team mates to actually carry.

tl;dr winning lane in low elo is super easy. you do have to play more self reliant in order to climb in low elo, and grouping even if it's disadvantageous from a practical standpoint can be more beneficial since the risk is your team dying otherwise.

beyond that though, you're just making excuses. "muh team" isn't why you can't climb, it's because not only do you suck but you can't play correctly around the elo you're playing with.

USmellLikeSheep1 votes

You are killing me with supporting the point and then disagreeing :P Let me put it this way: I have two mains, and I only que up for 2 roles.

ADC: Cait. I can solo 1v2 because I have all her mechanics down pact. If my support no shows, rages, or roams, I am fine bot lane. I might not win it, but I also won't easily feed unless I'm just having a bad day. That being said, I have learned a few things: assists as ADC are GREAT if the correspond to the most fed person getting the main kill. I will happily go assist-heavy ADC if my 15 assists are included in a top laner's 25 kills. This is playing to the team and not having to carry. Then there are games where I do carry. It depends ON THE TEAM.

SUPP: Nami. If I land bubbles and the ADC does not even auto them, I immediately start saving bubbles for disengage only. This is playing to the team.

On my old account, I was trying to make plays. I wasn't paying attention to my team, that they were completely incapable of followup, or too scared to be close enough. I wasn't playing to the team's abilities. Had I learned this lesson, I would have continued to climb. In fact, I believe that I was beginning to understand at the end of last season - hence the climb to B3. This created a blame game of either "I'm not good enough" or "They sucked" - which is something that is repeated over and over and over again on these boards and in team chat.

What I had was many people telling me that in duo+ que I played much better than my rank suggested. What I didn't have was someone telling me that this was because I learned to play as a TEAM with a certain skill level. I had no clue that most of my problems lay with my inability to understand that "teamwork skill" in solo que teams vary widely from game to game. What I understood was either "Your knowledge is lacking" (so I got as many coaches as I could afford), or "Your team screwwed up" (and started believing in this elo hell concept).

In essence, I have learned exactly when I need to get fed, or support someone else in doing so.

PS: This doesn't mean I only play two champs. Of course they can be picked or banned. These are just my mains. I don't have time to go into all my champs, but the theory is exactly the same.

colesy1 votes

but why does it depend on the team? you should be able to go off every game, you're at a low enough elo where people don't even understand match ups and can't even play counterpicks. even in higher elo, assuming you actually want to climb you need to basically go off every game unless you're completely hard countered, and even then you can impact the map and make plays elsewhere.

it sounds to me like you're saying your success depends on your team, and you consider yourself an enabler. now that's fine when you're playing support (to be honest, supports have to carry with good rotations, warding and landing key abilities), but hell no should you be playing adc and thinking "well I don't need to carry this", why do you think you're the "ad carry"? why do you think mid laners are "ap carries"? why do you think there are "carry" top laners? because the whole point is you're meant to carry the game. you'll do it more noticeably than tanks/supports by dealing the damage (they still have a large impact in making it possible for you to do the damage but that's not the point), but no way can you ever go in to a game and thinking "well i'll just let my team do the carrying and i'll tag along for the freebie".

so again, you actually just need to git gud and learn to carry. that means performing well solo and in group situations. it means getting fed from dumping your lane or dumping other lanes. it means rotating correctly. it means accepting the weaknesses in your team and playing accordingly.

USmellLikeSheep3 votes

Why fight to carry when someone else is already doing it? When you don't take the skill of the other four players into consideration even as ADC, you create a breeding ground for conflict, blaming, and tilting. There is a time to carry and a time to be carried. If I see in game that our top/mid/jungler is even with me, and there is a fight where I end up with the assist instead of the kill, I will happily take that instead of whining about kill stealing.

Since you are not really contributing to the point at hand, which is enabling people who complain about their teams sucking being the cause of their elo hell woes to look at their situation with a completely different mindset that will redefine "elo hell" and their ability to maneuver out of it, I will not reply to your comments again. You have completely missed the point of this thread.

The fact is I WAS one of the people who, depending on the game, either blamed myself or blamed my team's lack of coordination for rank losses. And I had no one explain to me that there was a different way to look at it. Sure, there are people here who are screaming "be okay with getting carried", but they don't tell people HOW to be okay with that - especially in the midst of a sea of posts that say "carry or don't complain".

Here's how to be okay with getting carried and knowing when it's up to you to carry instead: Learn to read your team's skill level and play accordingly. Play. As. A. Team.

Dukues2 votes

This is actually what I started doing more of and it has helped me a lot. Like I pay more attention to the game at hand and who is fed who is not. Since my old role used to be support and now is jungle I am used to peeling and trying to keep carries alive. In the off chance I am fed as jungler I will sometimes look to try and kill the enemy carriers in a team fight rather than peeling since I play bruser jungles. Still a learning experience, but I have apparently become good enough at it to rank into gold as I am close to having a 3rd accounts in gold this season, but still have more to learn if I want to reach plat or higher ranks.

Rain Smurff1 votes

You don't know the game. Your game knowledge lacks. You think you know what your talking about but that idea is scewed.

If you want advice just play easier champs and play to learn rather then climb. Climbing comes after.

USmellLikeSheep5 votes

I was not asking for advice. I am giving it to people who think like I once did.

Rain Smurff1 votes

{quoted}

I was not asking for advice. I am giving it to people who think like I once did.

ah my apologies, must of misinterpreted

Wreckanize1 votes

You do have a point that you have to play a little differently in Bronze. Exactly how might vary between champ and role. I placed in Bronze 5 this year, and ended up being a Sejuani main. Slow-scaling tanks aren't really known for carrying games, so I had to learn to adapt my build and play style to be more impactful on the game. Now I'm Silver II, and am maintaining a 67% win rate on Sejuani.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with others, I think you jumped the gun on this post. I agree that low Elo players may know some things, but they clearly don't know everything. You suggest we listen to you, and your justification is that your friends say you play better than your rank, and your smurf account is getting matched with better players in normals. These two things really mean very little. If you had just waited until you actually got placed in your 2nd account, you would at least have something tangible to prove you know what you're talking about. Pre-level 30 normal games and placements can be all over the board. You are try-harding, and they are probably fucking around. My friend a couple years ago placed into Silver IV or something. Every year since he's placed in Bronze III-V, and he can't pull himself out. Good luck, and let us know how you do.

Lucian Waifu1 votes

I would just like to say that I started out at Silver 5. The nest season I was dropped to Bronze 2 and over the next 3 weeks worked my way to Silver 2. If all you could get is Bronze 3 then that is exactly where you are suppose to be. By the way I went from Silver 4 to Plat 5 this season.

Edit: atm op.gg says your mmr should put you in silver 2, so you have definitely improved but learning how to carrying yourself is an extremely important role that most bronzies don't realize while they are bronze.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by USmellLikeSheep

I'm not seeing what you guys see...
Gameplay1 comments
1
votes
Kicked from placement game with "I agree", now can't log in
Report a Bug1 comments
1
votes