Taliyah

dim2a·12/6/2016, 8:42:37 PM·2 votes·487 views

tl;dr I loved old Taliyah, and feel meh about new one -- this is analysis what was so appealing about old one, in which ways new one is better, and what I would love to see done with it. In light of ryali's changes, perhaps now is the time to take a close look at Taliyah.

Old Taliyah had a very high macro skill cap (Her ultimate can backfire more than pretty much any other, and her passive means roaming, wrong roams are very punishing), but low micro skill cap due to her abilities not being as sensitive to speed of input as they are for most mages. Overall skill cap was, I feel, about average, maybe slightly higher. New Taliyah has similar macro skill cap, but in addition a much higher micro skill cap, which leads to two effects: 1). Overall skill curve is higher, leading her to be relatively powerful at LCS skill than she is in plat ELO (I use plat ELO as baseline partly because I'm there in solo/duo, and partly because Riot stated at some point they use it for balance). Which required nerf pre-world to make it balanced for pros, and buffs post-worlds to make her played in plat (and she is still rarely played there) -- not an ideal situation. 2). People who enjoy high macro skill cap, but not micro, do not like her as much as they did before (she was my favorite champion pre-W-change. Post-W-change I have ~50 games on her partly in hopes that once I get used to her new W she will be my favorite champion again, partly for nostalgic reasons, but she never felt the same to me).

One reason for micro skill cup change is that Old Taliyah's W started as soon as it was pressed the first time (with range clamping!), so its power did not depend on how fast you can finish input of knockup direction. New Taliyah's W starts after you finish input of direction, so the speed at which you can complete that operation is very important now, down to milliseconds, when fighting champions in plat+ ELO. It also makes playing her feel rushed -- old lockout on W was disliked by some, but it also meant that she was not as macro intensive, an aspect of which I liked.

New Taliyah's W is more intuitive and simpler to use -- press-W-move-mouse-release-W is easier than the old way with two W presses. Yay for new Taliyah.

E used to be a zoning tool. It telegraphed the E-W combo, but enemies stayed nearby at the peril of eating a very powerful E-W. New Taliyah has ability for W-E combo, which is not telegraphed, thus damage had to be toned down. A fair trade power-wise, but she lost zoning tool (no reason to E-W now), and a telegraphed strong combo which felt very rewarding to land, for a middling damage non-telegraphed combo (W-E), which is similar to what a lot of other mages have. E zoning was a macro tool -- easy to execute, its benefit being in setting up a teamfight or zoning enemies from important locations which are macro benefits. Gone now.

would love to see Taliyah return to her simple-micro-complicated-macro roots.

What I would love to see is: -Keep the W vector casting IF it is possible to start cast as soon as first W is pressed. It is easier to use. -Have W cast start as soon as first W is pressed with range clamping. If it can not be done while keeping vector casting, I'd prefer to get rid of vector casting, but if we can keep both, great. -Make W-E combo not as effective or impossible (through lockout after casting W or other means), but up the E-W combo's damage to compensate, giving back her zoning tool.

I do not think she needs the 50% bonus damage to minions on her Q, it never felt right even if was helpful. But the stronger E-W combo will help a bit with waveclear (minions don't dodge telegraphed combos), allowing her to roam a little more easily (but not as much as the 50% damage bonus she used to have on Q), which for her current state is a good thing.

WIll it happen? I am not holding my breath since I know riot rarely reverts changes, but I surely hope so!

P.S. Old taliyah had a not-too-large but very loyal set of mains who played her a lot. New one... pretty much everyone I talk to thinks of her as "meh" champion. It is not a power issue, it is identity issue. The changes I hope for will not change her overall power (she could use a buff due to ryali's nerf, but that can be accomplished just with numbers), but will sharpen her identity, giving some people, like me, reason to play her over other mages.

P.P.S. One idea connected with Ryali's nerf (Taliyah was one of a few mages on whom ryali's was core, and not just get-sometimes-or-often item), is to make her E bigger, but expand slowly (1000-ish speed) so it is more avoidable, giving her zone control and a slow to make it easier to land her Q's. Lower non-knockthrough E's damage to compensate, if necessary.

1 Comments

Leo102412/6/2016, 9:20:34 PM1 votes

i just want the damage to minions back, without waveclear roaming is damn near impossible since you'll use most of it to push your enemy to back and the rest to waveclear, i hope they make it scale by (15%,25%,35%,45%,50%) extra damage to minions, she needed a nerf but Riot reacted WAY too fast in removing it entirely