Similar Gameplay between champs

Nalisai·1/10/2020, 4:54:20 PM·1 votes·1,036 views

Has anyone else noticed how similar several champs are to each other? Like, one is an easier version of another?

Example: Vi and Amumu and Nautilus and Leona. Q - Grab/dash including cc W - passive additional dmg/armor E - AoE dmg R - harder hitting cc

If I were to rate them, I'd say Naut is the easiest, then Vi, Amumu, and Leona. But they all play basically the same.

I wonder if this is intentional or just because the same minds dreamed up the kits? Any others spring to mind? Immediate thoughts from me: Lux and Morgana Olaf and Tryndamere (and Garen maybe?)

7 Comments

ModThe Djinn1/10/2020, 4:58:11 PM2 votes

I wonder if this is intentional or just because the same minds dreamed up the kits?

Likely neither. It's probably because those are tools that are useful on that sort of champion and you're oversimplifying. For example, calling Vi's R and Amumu's R the same kind of effect is true only in that they have CC, which is useful both on divers and tanks.

GDIvsNOD1/10/2020, 6:01:08 PM2 votes

I was just thinking about Neeko the other day and how she has some rough similarities to Morgana. Both have a root (Morgana Q/Neeko E), both have a "stay around this and take increasing damage" (Morgana W/Neeko Q), both have a slight defenseive mechanism (Morgana E/Neeko W), and the ultimate is "stay near me for a while and suffer". The difference ends there, of course. Neeko tends to do more damage, Morgana can shield allies, Morgana's ultimate requires being near enemies to use to begin with, and then staying near them, but has more rooting, Neeko's defensive mechanism can eat a skill/attack away from you (depending on timing/distance) rather than just being a spellshield, but Morgana can cast hers on an ally on a moments' demand regardless of positioning, etc.

Lux/Morgana comparison I've seen before too.

Reworked Mordekaiser has been called an "AP Darius". I don't ENTIRELY agree with this just because Mordekaiser was given a pull on his E and has damage in his passive, but I do see it. I think half of this comes to them having the same role/class though. Both want to "bring you to me then run you down for a bit".

Champions only have 4 skills (although some sort of have more with some having alternate condition versions or passives) and a passive, are either ranged or melee, and AD or AP (or hybrid). So, with ~150 champions and only a handful of roles, there will be many that inevitably have some overlap.

Paroe1/10/2020, 6:11:48 PM2 votes

While some champions are similar - Riven and Aatrox for example - your criteria for it is extremely broad and applies to almost any form vague similarity. Just because a champion has; CC, Aggressive mobility, a defensive steroid, and CC ult does not mean theyre "similar" or that their gameplay is the same.

Vi, thresh, nautilus, and leona are very different from each other. The nuances of their kits and their varying strengths set them apart, not even "hit Q press W" would be similar enough call them 'the same'.

Cind3rkick1/10/2020, 6:17:15 PM1 votes

Most champions can fit into this sort of thing if you are lose.

You literally just called it "cc on q" "Aoe E" "Cc ult"

However....

Leona has no dash Amumu needs to hit an enemy to go to them Nauti is the only one that pulls the enemy in Vi is the only one that dashes before hitting.

Leona W is an armor boost with delayed damage Amumu W is a AoE DoT based on max health Nautillus is a shield with bonus aoe damage on attack Vi is a third hit damage/debuff

Leona E is more like the Q category, firing in a line with a dash Amumu E is an AoE with cdr being attscked Nautillus is an AoE cc Vi has anither on-hit boost that hits in a cone.

Leona R is an AoE with reducing effects based on distance from centre Amumu is a snare on everyone around him Nautillus is a homing knockup Vi is similar to Nauti but she goes to the target rather than just a seperate blast.

Suddenly none of the abilities look the same. The ordering of the abilities typically go: Basic spell on Q Defence/Buff on W Mobility or Cc on E Unique ultimate.

We can put some crazy champions into similar categories

Leona/Camille/Volibear/Trundle/Yorick

All have auto attack boost on Q Aoe with some bonuses Gapcloser E Ultimates that generate insane pressure.

Yet none of these champions play similarly to eschother (aside from Voli/Trundle)

ChaosReyn1/10/2020, 11:57:27 PM1 votes

There are a lot of champions that fulfill a similar form of role within the game. There are a lot of kits that are intentionally set up a a somewhat similar way to others, to make it simpler to learn (ex: most people will say "shields generally go on E, heals generally go on W" for enchanter supports)

But I wouldn't go as far as to say "they're so similar that there's no reason to not pick one over the other" and that's sort of what I feel you're trying to get at. Using your example:

I'd pick Nautilus if my team has plenty of damage, but not a lot of cc. Nautilus is hands down a literal permastun in one champion...and that's pretty much it. He has multiple ways to just point and click someone for a lockdown and then keep them locked down.
I'd pick Leona if I had a weaker laner, since my passive would give them bonus damage, and a team similar to the nautilus example. She doesn't quite have the same lockdown potential as nautilus, but she gives what would usually be a scaling laner (that is, a laner who has a weaker early game but strong late game) more relevance in the early game while still being a huge lockdown threat and solid frontline throughout the game. Alternatively, one can pick Leona in a similar way to Pyke - picking her with a strong laner to try to dominate the early game and transition that into the teamfight phase.
I personally would never pick Amumu support...however, if there was a time to pick Amumu support, it would be a moment where our team needs a solid initiator that also does acceptable damage in teamfights. I dont like Amumu support personally, because he's generally next to useless early game, but if you had someone with a strong early game like Draven, or someone like Caitlyn who can play that sort of "zone defense" role to just have a super chill, passive early game, it could work out. (except with my Caitlyn...I want to shoot people, and you can't help me. :P)
I'm going to sub out Vi for Pyke in my example, since I'm talking about supports. And I would generally pick Pyke for a support if we had a strong early game and wanted to play it aggressively. He has probably the weakest teamfight potential overall of the 4, but his skirmish potential is much higher. It makes him a better pick if your goal is to create a super high pressure scenario early on, and transition it into more of a "pick off" style than a "teamfight" style later on. And obviously, he's not useless in teamfights - his cleanup of them is still strong. But he can't fulfill the frontline role that the other 3 can. Alternatively, I could see the opposite, where Pyke would be the "aggressive pressure" needed to let his scaling laner farm...but I dont feel like it works as well as the Leona example because if he goes too ham, that laner cant follow him up.

Nalisai1/13/2020, 5:29:30 AM1 votes

{quoted}

Has anyone else noticed how similar several champs are to each other? Like, one is an easier version of another?

Example: Vi and Amumu and Nautilus and Leona. Q - Grab/dash including cc W - passive additional dmg/armor E - AoE dmg R - harder hitting cc

Everyone pretty much missing the point I was trying to make, so I'll try again.

It's not about the abilities themselves, but in how they're USED by the champion. To strip it down a bit further, let's just look at Amumu and Vi jungling: Q - gap closer that allows for wall jumping W - stat boost with a passive dmg additive E - AoE damage assist for multiple target fights R - Unique Ult yes, but normally used to lockdown priority targets. Unique in that the circumstances for use differ, but not their overlying purpose.

Using this model as an example, you could probably play Leona in the jungle VERY similarly and make it work. E* - used to wall jump between camps and as a gap closer for ganks [edit] I got her E and Q backwards AND her E doesn't allow her to wall jump {/edit] MB W - still a defensive shield Q* - Being a slower attacker with little AoE to help, the stun combo becomes REALLY important for ganks and camps to help mitigate damage taken until you can build in some AoE (either Hydra, most likely Titanic, and Iceborn Gauntlet would be my go-to's) to ease clearing camps R - Another unique CC lockdown (which is really just a shorter duration and smaller area but targeted Amumu ult, really)

Is my point easier to understand now? I hope? Looking back I probably should have left Naut out since his Q doesn't allow a wall jump and that prob made my point more confusing...

- see edit