Vel's ult just feels bad now no matter how you use it.

Slamurai Jack·5/7/2016, 2:54:43 AM·41 votes·2,759 views

But before I get into that, I want to talk about what I do like about the rework. The first is the shifting of his abilities to maxing Q first over W. This creates much more interesting gameplay and forces you to interact with your opponent more often which is beneficial for both players. I also like the removal of the Q indicator for Vel's opponents; frankly, it was ridiculous that they ever got to see it in the first place. I also really like that his passive now scales with AP at the expense of AP scaling on his W and E: this makes landing your passive more important and gives his opponents more counterplay against him while making good play on his part more rewarding than before.

However, I greatly dislike how the ult was changed for 1 very simple reason. With the changes, Vel's ult now has 2 different and distinct uses, neither of which feels satisfying compared to before. The first is to simply use it how it was used before, mainly as long ranged follow up to an allied initiation of counter-engage to an enemy initiation. Your goal is to hit as many enemies as possible and inflict as much AOE carnage as possible. However, this is almost always worse to do than it was before since your ult no longer grants passive stacks; that big burst you used to get from proccing your passive on 2-3 people at once is simply no longer possible. This leaves the ability feeling much less impactful than it was before.

The other use of Vel's ult is to proc your passive on 1 enemy with your regular spells and then ult that person for massive true damage. And in 1v1 scenarios, this feels more or less fine. But in teamfights, you're going to be proccing your passive on nothing but tanks and the occasional bruiser and ulting a lone tank just feels like crap even with the true damage. Vel's ult thematically screams that it's an AOE tool meant to melt entire teams but the true damage part of the ability is almost always used on only 1 person and that 1 person is usually a tank. And you're unlikely to kill that tank either even with a full channel of true damage.

And thus, you're left with 2 unsatisfying uses for your ult: use it how you did before, but worse; or use it on a tank and ruin the entire feel of the ability while also not even killing that tank more often than not. The ult change also makes Vel's possible combos far more limited since any combo that doesn't proc your passive before ulting is effectively wrong. Before, calculating just how many passive stacks you needed to apply before ulting to get the kill was a very important skill on Vel'koz and gave him a high degree of unpredictability, but now ulting at 1 or 2 stacks makes those stacks effectively worthless. It also doesn't help that Vel is just plain weaker than he was before: Winrate in Plat+ is down from 53.5% to 45.5% if LolKing is to be believed.

30 Comments

It Hertz When IP5/7/2016, 2:19:06 PM14 votes

Now you know why Vel players were screaming for Riot to not touch him.

63536895_DEL5/7/2016, 12:39:41 PM14 votes

Wait, so the champion that everyone told Riot not to change, doesn't feel good to play after being changed when he was already fine like he was. How can this be? I mean, Riot obviously knows what's better for an already balanced champion than that champions dedicated playerbase! Right?

PKnowledge5/7/2016, 1:12:13 PM7 votes

Exactly what I was thinking. This ult feel soooo underpowered. That's not an AoE nuke any more. Now you have to choose between no damage to everyone, or 1600 true damage on one champion (Overkill on squishies, and not that strong against 4k HP tank !)

Some maths for lvl 6 Q+E+Z+R combo : (If you play Vel', you like maths, right ? :p)

Old Vel : Passive x3, Z maxed. TOTAL : 825 (+233%) magic, 250 true. That's 910 (+185%) damage for 25 mr

New Vel : Passive x1, Q maxed. TOTAL : 305 (+130%) magic, 573 (+140%) true. That's 717 (+245%) damage for 25 mr

And I'm not taking into account that old vel'koz would be played with full magic pen, so mr would be less effective in the first one. That's still 200 less damage if you have no AP. You need 300 AP if you want the same damage with new combo.

Tl;dr : At lvl6, new Vel'koz does less damage than the old one, and new ult is meh :/

tXQbsPrjN55/7/2016, 9:14:38 AM7 votes

Wow you mean this mage update was a complete fucking failure that accomplished absolutely nothing? what a shocker.

therealdragon5/7/2016, 12:36:43 PM5 votes

If they could just let his ult apply one stack of his passive, that's all he really needs and his passive says that anyway:

Vel'Koz's abilities apply a stack of Organic Deconstruction Deconstruction to affected enemies every time they deal damage. At 3 stacks, they consume themselves to deal 33 - 169 (based on level) (+ 40% AP) true damage to their target.

What was that? VelKoz's abilities. His ult is an ability. If they would just do this you could burst people right away instead of there being a delay between magic and true damage. Not sure this would fix the problem of it feeling better but it would at least be a start.

M0b1us5/7/2016, 1:12:02 PM3 votes

I agree. His ult is only better now IF you get a full stack of your passive on someone. Also shifting already very low AP ratios from his W and E to his ult makes his optimal build path extremely poor. His basic abilities all have pretty low scaling, so they benefit more from penetration. His ult now has a 1.0 scaling and deals true damage. So penetration in an optimal scenario is mostly pointless on his ult. This makes all his basic abilities work better with penetration (like the old Vel) and his ult scale better with raw AP (this new sad Vel).

Riot went and changed Vel for no logical reason. This rework will destroy his perfect state of balance that he was in. I for one think that Riot needs to completely revert the Vel changes (along with Anivia, poor girl).

Ulquiorra9955/8/2016, 1:46:46 PM2 votes

Here's what they should do:

Remove the AP scaling from his ultimate and the Deconstructed gimmick. Make it apply his passive again. There you go. He still melts tanks like Rito intended with true damage which now has a scaling and the flow of his kit is preserved.

But unfortunately, since Vel'koz is Vel'koz and not Lee Sin, Zed or Riven it doesn't matter how much constructive feedback Rito receives from experienced players, they ain't fixing him. That treatment is reserved solely for LC$BIGPLAYS, skin-selling champions it seems.

EfficientDynamo5/7/2016, 5:28:37 PM2 votes

One possible solution would be for his ult to add stacks of his passive, but at a much slower rate. Currently it damages for 2.5 seconds at .25 second intervals. Maybe it should apply one stack per 5 ticks of damage. You are still encourage to research your opponent, but it is still useful if you aren't able to hit everyone with your full combo.

Vanic9985/7/2016, 3:08:11 AM2 votes

Why did you say almaot always 1 target? It's not easy but it's not impossible to research multiple targets at once.

SIayton5/7/2016, 9:27:09 PM1 votes

I just don't like how restricted the ult changes make him feel. Before you could say, roam bottom lane and ult the enemy laners over the wall. Now without the ult stacking his passive, it's basically "wrong" to use his ult any time other than after an EW combo. And his W is basically "wrong" unless done after an E, so his flexibility feels VERY limited now compared to before. He's basically a Q and an E. What was so wrong with the ult proccing his passive? People SHOULD be punished for standing in the death laser for too long. it's not hard to dodge and if you're hitting more than one guy with it for an extended period of time, the enemy really has no one to blame but themselves.

IMO all they'd have to do is bring back passive stacking on his ult and he'd be a lot more playable right now. Just make it so that his ult can only stack it once and after they're researched it's just the ult doing the damage.

Additionally the loss of wave clear for Velk with the W nerf was a really big impact to his playstyle. He is NOT good at sticking his neck out in lane but now he basically has to if he wants to last hit. This opens him up to a world of hurt against stronger duelist midlaners and has dramatically affected his ability to quickly farm and keep up with champions that have more of an ability to get fed. Before it was possible to play safely in lane and keep up against someone like Zed but now you really don't have a fallback pattern and it sucks. In addition to that, being forced to build heavy AP means he lost his ability to itemize against champions like LB and still be effective. I used to rush banshees against her and fizz and be able to survive lane and still farm because of his passive but now that it needs AP to do damage, he lost that "fallback" pattern as well.

All in all the changes turned him into a very limited and binary champion with a much less satisfying ult and playstyle in lane IMO.

Rosemary Bread 5/7/2016, 9:35:19 PM1 votes

Since when people play him?

lolipopevelynn5/7/2016, 10:23:15 PM1 votes

fuck all of you guys saying velkoz is weak. that son of a bitch does 5k TRUE DAMAGE with full build.

get good.

GaleWinUnleashed5/7/2016, 11:12:12 PM1 votes

Try playing One-for-All Vel'Koz vs. Sion. It was absolutely essential to do your research before ulting, or you'd do next to nothing to all that magic resist.

TheOvermind5/7/2016, 6:51:53 AM1 votes

I remember picking Vel'koz into a heavy tank team before his rework , and going the old lyandrys rylai's penetration build and I was indeed melting them with the lyandry's burn on my ultimate, but it left me wanting more. I wanted more true damage ! Well now I got it thanks riot :D

YoureSquiddingMe5/8/2016, 6:31:02 AM1 votes

Honestly I do think his basic abilities are significantly stronger with the damage moved to his passive proc, but the ult just sucks now, and that was the thing that drew me the most to this champion. Even with the true damage, it still does about 30-40% less damage, and people always just walk away from it because of that. It's also more of a single target spell instead of an AOE spell with the passive interaction. I wish the ratio and base on his passive were lowered, some damage returned to the other abilities, and his R ratio lowered, with the ability for the ult to add stacks brought back. Those extra bursts are what made the ult. You could make the passive ratio 10% or 15% and bring the ult down to 60% again and I would be fine. Even if it adds stacks you wouldn't get the "op" true damage until it was 3 ticks in.

This rework did give me most of what I wanted in late game scaling and a passive improvement as well as tank shredding capabilities, but just ulting the lone tank for half his health isn't as fun as ulting everyone for 70% of their hp.