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Teemo shroom vs Shaco boxes

Lord DoNotSmile··1 votes·746 views

points after # are ones added to the list

#THIS IS ONLY A COMPARISON LIST#

Both can: -No longer stack on top one another. -Be TP'd on

Jack In The Box Advantages 1 Larger Sight radius than shrooms even when shrooms are maxed. 2 Stronger cc (Fear Flee) 3 Damage can stack (Shrooms only reset poison) 4 Costs less mana than shrooms (Teemo flat 75 vs. Shaco's 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70) 5 Larger activation/collision radius than shrooms 6 No cast time vs shrooms having a travel time when thrown 7 Can potentially proc other boxes when 1 is activated (fear Flee enemies into other boxes) 8 Higher cast range than a Teemo shroom (rank 1) 9 Subtle character model casting animation (#can look like an auto attack because of its ground spawn vs. Teemo throwing in direction) 10 Box can out damage shrooms with full duration of ticks (#Math will be explained on bottom, this is only considering base dmg, because both Teemo and Shaco can go AD or AP) #note that boxes can die while thy're attacking. 11 Cannot be deleted by Yasuo Windwall or blocked by Braum Unbreakable(#Click spawn vs being thrown) 12 Can BLOCK skillshots like hooks and and morg q's 13 Aggro Tank creeps (tank creep damage/ tank Baron and Dragon attacks) 14 Damage structures (Towers/Inhib/Nexus) 15 Tank tower shots 16 Cancel champion abilities (although not as versatile anymore with box stacking removed) 17 #Banshees block the flee but not the attacks. (Attacks cannot be blocked by banshees) 18 # (Tested this just now) Teemo shrooms can't bounce off blast cones. Some Shaco players do this to make sure the boxes proc instantly. (This is a neat trick that mimics a far ranged shroom-bounce except with a condition)

Noxious Trap Advantages 1 HP counter instead of flat hp. Will always take 2 melee hits to kill and 3 ranged hits. 2 Shrooms can't be kill in 1 hit or by abilities. 3 AOE dmg (Box is more semi-AOE) 4 Longer cc 4 sec slow vs 0.5 / 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 fear Flee 5 Higher max rank dmg (# I originally left this here, because boxes die pretty fast in late game, but this should be a list comparing only base stats and traits) 5 Bounces further than boxes can (#Can give vision to areas without risking facecheck, the shroom bounce is also more reliable than the Box bounce because of this) 7 Maximizes the effect of Liandry's (updated to point 14) 6 On a charge system (#This hard for me to gauge, it gives lower CD overall but I'm not considering mana costs and regen. I would need to test that.) 7 Lasts 5 min 8 Will trigger Cass' Twin Fang 9 Arms faster (Shrooms takes 1 sec to stealth vs 2 sec for boxes) 10 Does not make a visual or sound in Fog of War (vs puff of smoke and box laugh) 11 Higher cast range (rank 2 and up) 12 Better for waveclear 13 #Banshees block the damage but not the detonation, therefore nearby allies can still be poisoned. (Allies without Banshees can still be damaged.) 14 #Can apply spell effects (Spell Vamp, Rylais, and Liandries)

Damage Vs. Shrooms: 50 / 81.25 / 112.5 (+ 12.5% AP) each sec for 4 sec. = 200/325/450 + 50% (AP)

Boxes: (They last 5 sec, and attack 5 times in that duration) [35 / 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 (+ 20% AP)]*5 ticks = 175/250/325/400/475 + 100% (AP)

Both Teemo and Shaco Lv. 6 Shroom 200 + 50% (AP) vs.
Box 175/250/325 + 100% (AP)

...Lv11 Shroom _ 325 + 50% (AP) _ vs.
Box 175/250/325/400/475 + 100% (AP)

...Lv116 Shroom _450+ 50% (AP) _ vs.
Box 325/400/475 + 100% (AP)

5 Comments

Gildarzt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ye Qiu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HzYJpR9Z,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-25T04:20:32.410+0000)

Both can: -Bounce -Be TP'd on

Why Box is better: 1 Larger Sight radius than shrooms even when shrooms are maxed.

true

2 Stronger cc (Fear)

true

3 Damage can stack (Shrooms only reset poison)

true

4 Costs less mana than shrooms (Teemo flat 75 vs. Shaco's 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70)

true

5 Larger activation/collision radius than shrooms

true

6 No cast time vs shrooms having a travel time when thrown

False, shaco has an animation to put the box and you have to add you can destroy box before he goes invisibility because it takes 2 seconds.

7 Can potentially proc other boxes when 1 is activated (fear enemies into other boxes)

true

8 Higher cast range than a Teemo shroom (rank 1)

shrooms can jump over other shrooms

9 Subtle cast animation (Hard for enemy to see where you put it) vs Teemo throwing in direction

false, you can see the smoke of the box even in the fogg.

10 Box can out damage shrooms in early ranks (only until shrooms are maxed that boxes start to deal less dmg)

Is this a joke?

Shaco's W: 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 (+ 20% AP). Teemo's R: 50 / 81.25 / 112.5 (+ 12.5% AP) per second over 4 seconds. Tha's mean in rank one does 250 basic damage and 0,5% ap scale.

Again, is this a joke? Shaco needs almost 8 shots to do that.

11 Cannot be negated by Yasuo or blocked by Braum

False, both, they can negate the damage.

12 Can BLOCK skillshots like hooks and and morg q's

Teemo's shrooms too.

13 Aggro creeps (tank creep damage/ tank Baron and Dragon attacks)

that's a good thing or a bad because it means minions can destroy a box that you cannot get destroy because minions priorice boxes over minions or champs.

14 Damage structures (Towers/Inhib/Nexus)

True

15 Tank tower shots

True, but im pretty sure shrooms too.

16 Cancel champion abilities (although not as versatile anymore with box stacking removed)

true.

Why Shroomy is better: 1 HP counter instead of flat hp. Will always take 2 melee hits to kill and 3 ranged hits. 2 Shrooms can't be kill in 1 hit or by abilities. 3 AOE dmg (Box is more semi-AOE) 4 Longer cc 4 sec slow vs 0.5 / 0.75 / 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 fear 5 Higher max rank dmg

And lower ranks too.

6 Bounces further than boxes can (not really a real advantage honestly)

It is, you can put a shroom without expose yourself.

7 Maximizes the effect of Liandry's

Not only maximices, applies. Shaco's W doesn't apply liandry or rilay, doesn't apply any spell effect.

8 On a charge system

And not only that, lower colddown to respawn, shaco has 16 seconds for each box, teemo can stack 3 and has much lower coldown at rank 2 or 3.

Shaco takes 30 seconds to place 3 boxes, teemo can do it in 3.

9 Lasts 5 min 10 Will trigger Cass' Twin Fang 11 Arms faster (Shrooms takes 1 sec to stealth vs 2 sec for boxes) 12 Does not make a visual or sound in Fog of War (vs puff of smoke and box laugh) 13 Higher cast range (rank 2 and up) 14 Better for waveclear

So Teemo's R are better than shaco's W, I don't have any complain because is teemo's ult, but i dont get your point here.

Lord DoNotSmile1 votes

{quoted}

true

true

true

true

true

False, shaco has an animation to put the box and you have to add you can destroy box before he goes invisibility because it takes 2 seconds.

true

shrooms can jump over other shrooms

false, you can see the smoke of the box even in the fogg.

Is this a joke?

Shaco's W: 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 (+ 20% AP). Teemo's R: 50 / 81.25 / 112.5 (+ 12.5% AP) per second over 4 seconds. Tha's mean in rank one does 250 basic damage and 0,5% ap scale.

Again, is this a joke? Shaco needs almost 8 shots to do that.

False, both, they can negate the damage.

Teemo's shrooms too.

that's a good thing or a bad because it means minions can destroy a box that you cannot get destroy because minions priorice boxes over minions or champs.

True

True, but im pretty sure shrooms too.

true.

And lower ranks too.

It is, you can put a shroom without expose yourself.

Not only maximices, applies. Shaco's W doesn't apply liandry or rilay, doesn't apply any spell effect.

And not only that, lower colddown to respawn, shaco has 16 seconds for each box, teemo can stack 3 and has much lower coldown at rank 2 or 3.

Shaco takes 30 seconds to place 3 boxes, teemo can do it in 3.

So Teemo's R are better than shaco's W, I don't have any complain because is teemo's ult, but i dont get your point here.

False, shaco has an animation to put the box and you have to add you can destroy box before he goes invisibility because it takes 2 seconds. -I said it's subtle, the cast animation looks the same as an auto attack animation, because it isn't updated like Teemo's. Also I already pointed out the 2 sec delay later in the list, which is on a different point from cast animation.

shrooms can jump over other shrooms -Boxes can too, also that was the first thing I pointed out on the list... "Both can: -'Bounce' " (although I'm not sure about if the reliability should be put into consideration for this list)

Shaco's W: 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 (+ 20% AP). Teemo's R: 50 / 81.25 / 112.5 (+ 12.5% AP) per second over 4 seconds. Tha's mean in rank one does 250 basic damage and 0,5% ap scale. -No, because I made another point further in the list for late game dmg. I separated the two, because Shaco is early game and Teemo shrooms are more reliable in Teamfights (harder to get rid of quick). Early: Box 35-65 (20% AP) vs shroom 50 (12.5% AP)

False, both, they can negate the damage. -I was talking about the ability itself, Shrooms get deleted from windwall or bounce off Braum's shield vs Shaco's click spawn.

Teemo's shrooms too. -Cannot block skillshots (tested)

True, but im pretty sure shrooms too. -Cannot block tower shots (tested)

It is, you can put a shroom without expose yourself. -can literally be said the same for boxes wall hopping

So Teemo's R are better than shaco's W, I don't have any complain because is teemo's ult, but i dont get your point here. -I didn't even make a claim that Shaco boxes are better LOL.

Gildarzt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ye Qiu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HzYJpR9Z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-27T03:31:08.733+0000)

False, shaco has an animation to put the box and you have to add you can destroy box before he goes invisibility because it takes 2 seconds. -I said it's subtle, the cast animation looks the same as an auto attack animation, because it isn't updated like Teemo's. Also I already pointed out the 2 sec delay later in the list, which is on a different point from cast animation.

shrooms can jump over other shrooms -Boxes can too, also that was the first thing I pointed out on the list... "Both can: -'Bounce' " (although I'm not sure about if the reliability should be put into consideration for this list)

Not true, they can't because you cannot be sure where the box will go, it's not the same lol.

Shaco's W: 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 (+ 20% AP). Teemo's R: 50 / 81.25 / 112.5 (+ 12.5% AP) per second over 4 seconds. Tha's mean in rank one does 250 basic damage and 0,5% ap scale. -No, because I made another point further in the list for late game dmg. I separated the two, because Shaco is early game and Teemo shrooms are more reliable in Teamfights (harder to get rid of quick). Early: Box 35-65 (20% AP) vs shroom 50 (12.5% AP)

For each second over 4 seconds, again 250 + 50% ap. Read the ability.

False, both, they can negate the damage. -I was talking about the ability itself, Shrooms get deleted from windwall or bounce off Braum's shield vs Shaco's click spawn.

Because box need 2 seconds and shrooms are ready.

Teemo's shrooms too. -Cannot block skillshots (tested)

It could before.

True, but im pretty sure shrooms too. -Cannot block tower shots (tested)

If you say that, but you have an advantage there, you can put to push the wave, shaco can't

It is, you can put a shroom without expose yourself. -can literally be said the same for boxes wall hopping

And again, you cannot be sure that the box will be where you want.

So Teemo's R are better than shaco's W, I don't have any complain because is teemo's ult, but i dont get your point here. -I didn't even make a claim that Shaco boxes are better LOL.

And then, again, what is the purpose of this post?

Lord DoNotSmile1 votes

{quoted}

Not true, they can't because you cannot be sure where the box will go, it's not the same lol.

That was redundant...I already pointed out that they’re unreliable and different in that way anyways.... and the range and reliability advantage is one of teemo listed points....

For each second over 4 seconds, again 250 + 50% ap. Read the ability.

I can see where you’re going with this. Sorry, but you’re still wrong. I should’ve explained this in my last reply, (don’t mean to be rude), I checked you were a Shaco main at the time, so I assumed you knew that I was talking about Shaco’s boxes with their max duration of damage, not just 1 tick of damage from their basic attacks, in our last conversation. But with the full duration the boxes at rank 3 comes up as 325 dmg with 100 ap scaling (they attack 5 Times) vs teemo a rank 1 with 200 and 50 scaling. You get an ability at rank 3 before lv 6, so the box can be at rank 3. Even at rank two the box would match out the base damage of Shrooms and have better ratios.

#I just added the calculations on the post just now to avoid further confusion#

Because box need 2 seconds and shrooms are ready.

No, it’s because shrooms are projectiles when they’re thrown.

“This ability is considered to be a projectile for Unbreakable and Windwall” (look under Noxious Shrooms’ ability details)

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Teemo/Abilities

As for Shaco’s ground target summon

“Ability Details Jack in the Box is a ground-targeted summon.” (JITB’s ability details)

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shaco/Abilities

Finally, against your claim that Teemo’s Shrooms do not have a similar delay to Shaco’s two secs

“...tive: Teemo tosses a mushroom trap on the ground, which stealths and arms after 1 second, las...”

Source is same wikia link for the Noxious Trap’s projectile info.

It could before.

No. Checked update history. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Teemo/History

If you say that, but you have an advantage there, you can put to push the wave, shaco can't

Pushing wave was already on the list before we talked. I will convince you that they cannot tank turrets. Turrets shots are slow and teemo with the recharge system can tank 9 hits with 3 charges if the attacks are considered ranged. THAT would be absurdly broken. If you don’t believe me and still not convinced, you can test this in practice tool. It could before, but that was because Shrooms are mainly coded as wards, and towers could attack wards at the time.

And again, you cannot be sure that the box will be where you want.

Same reply to this, as the prev. similar remark.

And then, again, what is the purpose of this post?

Title is "Teemo shroom vs Shaco boxes," there is no suggestion that boxes are better, also COMPARISON LIST is on the top of the post. Pure info. If I made a claim, this title would be “Why Shaco boxes are better than Teemo Shrooms,” or vice versa but it isn’t.

I changed the "Why Boxes are better" and "Why shrooms are better" to their ability names to avoid confusion, since I wouldn't blame you if seeing the first subtitle was the reason you thought that my purpose was to claim one was better than the other.

Gildarzt1 votes

Ok, now all it's clear, sorry for my bad thoughts.

But you made, not a mistake, just a imposible situation. You said that the box hit all over the 5 seconds activation.

Well, that's is right now imposible if the enemy is not afk. Fear duration is 1,5 you need 3 boxes to do the all 5 seconds duration, and that's late and is quite difficult to get it, you need to camp, with teemo the enemy only need to walk over a shroom, more simple.

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