Boards›Gameplay

OP.GG dodges = Riot "outsourced" matchmaking to the players

Kanyoupipu·5/11/2019, 8:16:07 PM·19 votes·10,490 views

It occurred to me as I was having to make the call to dodge after seeing a 29% win rate toplaner assigned to my team.... The players can OP.GG check on win rates, champs, autofills.... even the streamers and pros use dodging as an essential tool to climb.

If we as players can predict (beyond any reasonable doubt) the outcome of ranked games before they start... Why Cant Riot's matchmaking?

Riot seems to address queue time complaints, and autofill complaints, but they don't seem to acknowledge that they system they have in place REQUIRES players to actively perform due diligence and actively dodge games for a chance at success in a flawed system. It seems strange to me that the playerbase, and even Riot to some extent, has come to accept it.

I would really hope for a major overall of the ELO, MMR, LP system eventually. Maybe this is just wishful thinking for League of Legends 2.

46 Comments

Kai Guy5/11/2019, 10:27:54 PM23 votes

Because the matchmaker does not try to rig games and uses RNG to be fair to all players. You need bad players to play and lose games for them to get out of a incorrect MMR, The longer a bad player stays in a MMR the more they make a negative impact. If a bunch of folks dodge at the drop of a hat because they freak out with win rates you protect yourself but just up the odds of a mob of bad players getting pushed into 1 team.

What MMR would do is look to protect players Ratings in uneven games with K slowdown and We calculations. It would not look at actual game quality. A bad win rate is expected to balance out and improve as some one sinks. To care about win rates by teams you end up punishing good players if your MM actively trys to fix teams winrates overall to a value. Now, Riot could try have MM only look to put a highly negative WR champion per team but that adds a lot of time.

Its usually better to just let the ladder balance out. Its not just win % but also how many games. You don't Expect Ro for accounts to be accurate in MMR if people have low N and high K.

Ameliea5/11/2019, 11:57:48 PM5 votes

What are you suggesting? You dont want a player with a low winrate on your team. Neither does the enemy. So where to put him?

haaaaaaalp5/12/2019, 3:19:50 AM5 votes

Matchmaking is a better predictor of outcomes than you are. You are free to dodge, just don’t pretend you actually know better.

Using stuff like op.gg to dodge is nothing more than placebo. It makes people feel better so riot doesn’t try to stop it but it does nothing for them in the long run.

Dannar Hetoshi5/12/2019, 3:47:30 AM4 votes

Man, if this were actually the case I would have had everyone and their brother dodging on me because, through almost no fault of my own, I had about a 19% winrate over my first 40 games in season 9. I finished season 8 Gold 1. I started season 9 Gold 4. Over the first 40 games I managed to hold Gold 4. Over the next 160 games, my overall winrate has climbed to 52% and now I'm Plat 4.

bluefire mark 25/12/2019, 5:32:43 PM3 votes

So by your example.. your logic is, if i player has a low winrate, they can't play ranked because nobody wants them on their team therefore the matchmaking won't even find a game for them?

I get you don't like low winrate players but there's nothing you can really do.

xxgabrielxx175/12/2019, 2:47:38 AM3 votes

how about this...... if you are silver 5...... you play with the pool of silver 5 ppl til you get the fuk out to silver 4 etc... not hey this person is silver 1 lets stick him with 2 silver 5 and 2 bronze 3 vs this silver 2 team with one gold 4

Karlosbubi5/12/2019, 11:37:23 AM3 votes

What would it make if bad players can't play, they will drop in ELO are out of your way, but some how they made it into your ELO. Maybe they got stomped by otp a couple of times and will be better in other games, or they play champs like braum and can't carry when thier team loses. If they are bad they will drop if not they will stay ore climb, it's not fair to not let them play anymore or instant drop them.

Zertryx5/12/2019, 1:29:24 AM2 votes

The problem with the system is that it cant account for what you are gonna play every game, and why is this important? well take this into consideration. Some people Excelle really well at certain champions typically 2-3. but sometimes players are playing different champs than their top 2-3. Maybe they are bored of the 3 they always play, maybe they been having a bad day with them, maybe they wanna get more range and get better at other champs. So they go in and pick a champ that isnt their top 3, they might play that champ 10 games in a row and do pretty bad decreasing their win rate by a lot.

The system CANT know that you are going to pick that exact champ that game, it doesn't know if you are gonna play a new champ, a champ you are ok with or a champ you excelle at. because sometimes other people pick you champ, ban it or you get auto filled in a role where that champ sucks. And before people say "they shouldnt play champs they suck at in ranked" why not? the point of ranked is to try and improve, not only that but playing champs in normals doesnt always really determine how good you will do in ranked as match making in normals is very skewed. It's easy to win as adc soraka in a normals game more so than it would be in ranked. and say i did practice a champ in normals it doesnt mean im going to do well in ranked even if i did well in normals. because theres a high chance i was facing against premades that wanted to do fun stuff, or i get a diamond on my team or im against a bunch of iron players who dont care if they win or lose. ranked has less of that varible because most the time EVERYONE is trying harder.

This is why i think they tried to do ranked roles because someone like me, i can play mid / support REALLY well for my mmr, i can do top and adc alright but my jungling is prob low silver even though im a mid gold player. if i start quing for jungle in my ranked games im going to lose more

SKUMBAG FERG5/12/2019, 2:40:52 PM2 votes

Dodging is kind of a scumbag thing to do, and wastes time for 9 other people. "Essential"? It's just bad sportsmanship and there should be increasing LP penalties for dodging. After 3 dodges in a week you should lose more LP than for losing a game, of just automatically get placed in a lower division, like from iron 3 to iron 4.

Check third party websites less, play more, get a better attitude.

Akitaka5/12/2019, 6:37:44 PM1 votes

I cant believe people are so negative about dodging. I only dodge one or two games a day if playing with a partner. Dodges are a tool if your bot lane is level 30 and have 2 losses going 0/20 it's very reasonable to dodge. Another reasonable dodge is if you see the comps and you can tell oh hey we have a thresh adc with a zillean support okay that's terrible for late game dosent provide much and they likely going to feed the draven 9/0 since draven has leona for hard engages its prob a good idea to dodge this game if we dont have any late game scaling champion and no one to reach the backline to kill draven. It's a tool and you are limited to one a day per person because 3 lp dosent hurt mmr much at all.

retryCZ5/12/2019, 10:14:37 PM1 votes

{quoted}

It occurred to me as I was having to make the call to dodge after seeing a 29% win rate toplaner assigned to my team.... The players can OP.GG check on win rates, champs, autofills.... even the streamers and pros use dodging as an essential tool to climb.

If we as players can predict (beyond any reasonable doubt) the outcome of ranked games before they start... Why Cant Riot's matchmaking?

Riot seems to address queue time complaints, and autofill complaints, but they don't seem to acknowledge that they system they have in place REQUIRES players to actively perform due diligence and actively dodge games for a chance at success in a flawed system. It seems strange to me that the playerbase, and even Riot to some extent, has come to accept it.

I would really hope for a major overall of the ELO, MMR, LP system eventually. Maybe this is just wishful thinking for League of Legends 2.

{quoted}

It occurred to me as I was having to make the call to dodge after seeing a 29% win rate toplaner assigned to my team.... The players can OP.GG check on win rates, champs, autofills.... even the streamers and pros use dodging as an essential tool to climb.

If we as players can predict (beyond any reasonable doubt) the outcome of ranked games before they start... Why Cant Riot's matchmaking?

Riot seems to address queue time complaints, and autofill complaints, but they don't seem to acknowledge that they system they have in place REQUIRES players to actively perform due diligence and actively dodge games for a chance at success in a flawed system. It seems strange to me that the playerbase, and even Riot to some extent, has come to accept it.

I would really hope for a major overall of the ELO, MMR, LP system eventually. Maybe this is just wishful thinking for League of Legends 2.

Well, it is simple if you are saying that u get someone with 29% win rate in your games then you are in iron or bronze and there it is expectable. No one says that MMR system is the best or most accurate so stuff like this can happen, but it is still better then old elo system.

Bouwer5/13/2019, 8:46:18 AM1 votes

You haven't even played your placements.

Moonscourge5/11/2019, 11:09:14 PM1 votes

Winrates don't matter to the system.

Foxynth5/12/2019, 2:31:19 AM1 votes

Excuse me for perhaps sounding like an apologist. Imagine ordering a pizza from your favorite joint. Their pizza takes a while to make but it's a burden for you to wait so long, so you want them to make it express. So they do; but now it tastes like crap.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, y'know? Eventually, when trying to make things "better" or "more convenient" for players, you're gonna end up having to cut corners. The perfect system doesn't exist.

TGN Crusaddy5/12/2019, 7:17:31 AM1 votes

I haven't had OP. GG record even 1/10th of my games. The side is screwed and doesn't work like it should

ilikecookies15/12/2019, 11:54:47 AM1 votes

Tbh the fact that people think this way is sickening. Just because streamers and other players dodge or throwing to find "better players" shouldn't even matter to begin with. Like to use OP.gg to basically dodge games that you dislike the outcome odds is just well idiotic in my say. Because overall some people just like at percentage then make there judgement then skme people do full on research like how long this person played this champ .etc all that shouldnt matter because you are playing a ranked game sure odds are stacked against you because you feel as if your team will do bad but sometimes you just gotta roll with what it gives because in the longrun you either deal with it head on now so you know what to do for future cases or be what you are by dodging and throw after you couldnt get your IE Yasuo

ChumShot5/12/2019, 4:19:33 PM1 votes

Theres no reason to have both an MMR and Rank. #rankX should play against #rankX

It works like this in real individual sports. Weight class for example.

Trundler5/12/2019, 4:23:19 PM1 votes

If you think you know the outcome of an event with a 30% probability of occurring in advance "beyond a reasonable doubt," you don't understand statistics.

Pika Fox5/12/2019, 4:40:16 PM1 votes

Because players are terrible at predicting the outcome of a match "beyond a reasonable doubt". Humans are biased tp think theyre good at predictions, when we are often garbage at it. We have negative biases because it helps survival.

The Ýung Carry5/12/2019, 6:07:05 PM1 votes

Let's say I do promos right. I'm an ex platinum 1 player, didnt really play league very much for a while and I come back in the new season. Not only am I rusty but a lot has changed. I was platinum 1 and it's clear I have that potential. So I go in, do my placements, lost most of them, place gold 3 with plat 2 mmr. Not uncommon, i get 35lp for wins and lose 10 or less. I probably belong in gold 1 at the moment not plat 2 and my rank says gold 3. I lose almost every game playing against these platinum 2 players but I lose so little lp and gain so much I finally make my way to where I belong with a whopping 28% winrate. You see me, an ex platinum 1 player who is now in gold 1 and you dodge.. low key I was probably going to carry you as I'm getting a hang of things again.

You have very vague knowledge of the ranking system brother. Play some league, enjoy yourself, improve. Godspeed baby