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PSA to top laners from a jungler

TheThundersRoar·2/11/2018, 11:27:12 AM·89 votes·5,313 views

When you:

  1. know that the enemy jungler is a ganker who got leashed bot,
  2. literally memorized the exact time he'll show up from getting first-blooded your last 40 games,
  3. still don't ward your shit at 2:30, and
  4. shove your lane as an immobile champion,

then you don't get to say "lol jungle is op top lane sucks", because a disabled chimpanzee playing AP Riven jungle would've killed your ass.

There is a 1-minute window in the entire game where the enemy jungler is interested in ganking top, before heading bot and mid to snowball the carries. And you still managed to die. That's your problem.

I'm honestly jealous of you. I'm fucking garbage, hardstuck at this shit elo. But you...

You can very easily improve as a player and climb with this One Simple Trick. But you won't do that. You're probably going to downvote and get first-blooded next game too. By all means, go ahead. I'm just putting this out there.

69 Comments

Crystalysk2/11/2018, 3:29:08 PM27 votes

Tomorrow they will come here because they get cheesed by Twitch at 2:00, unacceptable! Early game ganks are so telegraphed i'm surprised people still manage to die at 3:00.

TheUrbanKitsune2/11/2018, 11:34:41 AM22 votes

Don't play top usually, but pretty solid advice I think. I have a friend who mains top and used to always rage and complain about being ganked early even though he was pretty much at the enemy tower. Overextending as an immobile champion (especially without warding) is usually asking for trouble.

I don't necessarily agree with the point that there is a 1-minute window where junglers will gank top though. Might be your playstyle but I think there are plenty of junglers out there who will gank top if there is the opportunity to make a play.

Rexxiee2/11/2018, 7:49:06 PM13 votes

"jungle is fine, just play around them for the whole early game (basically never play aggressive or try to do anyhting while they are not on the map) or instantly lose"

Wards do NOT stop junglers for camping you, they are not a jungler repelent, as junglers are so strong with double buffs that they can just run through them and sit there/dive you.

You know that is exactly the problem? Top laners have to bow themselfes to junglers now, they have too much game impact in the first 20 minutes and it needs to be lowered, period.

Jesus is Savior2/11/2018, 8:29:59 PM8 votes

https://i.imgur.com/gyeA9C9.png/img

SwiftKitten882/11/2018, 3:39:23 PM8 votes

if the op in the other thread was complaining about never getting ganks that would at least make sense.. right now if i can get the bot lane ahead then we win the game. if i can even take one of the bot laners down we can get first tower bot or we can take drag. it also give me an opportunity that even if one gets away we get a single kill and the opportunity to get them to blow more summoners.

i get jack shit when i gank top. only time i would do it is when im clearing top jungle and thier already pushed up to your tower and its a free kill. or if the enemy top is Nasus and i have no choice but to camp him all game. so i can give my top laner a change in hell by the time nasus reaches 6.

unless the enemy top laner is Nasus im not going to gank top unless thier laner is REALLY out of postion as i dont get shit for doing it. and honestly top lane has so damn little impact on the game nowadays when ADC's rule the meta there is almost zero reason, to go there UNLESS the enemy is shoved to your tower.

Barkley2/11/2018, 11:35:14 PM7 votes

PSA to follow up this PSA:

If you are said immobile champion in said lane getting ganked by said enemy jungler at said time,

and you burn your flash.... and still die (because you were under the enemy turret at 2:30, because apparently denying the enemy 1-2 cs under their tower is worth your death...)

So now you're a FLASHLESS immobile champion....

DONT FUCKING TELEPORT BACK TO LANE AND IMMEDIATELY START SHOVING AGAIN.

....The jungler hasn't even had time to leave yet! What do you THINK is going to happen?!?!?

The OP put it best when he said

There is a 1-minute window in the entire game where the enemy jungler is interested in ganking top, before heading bot and mid to snowball the carries.

but as a sometimes-jungler, I will tell you I will HAPPILY return to top lane and re-gank that ass if you are ACTUALLY this stupid. I like free kills and freelo just as much as the next guy.

Don't be my freelo, kids.

Lil Homie busta2/11/2018, 5:24:32 PM5 votes

Except when the jungle sits for 2 minutes in the top lane brush, denying you farm and getting the bonus xp from large monsters in the jungle, because why not. Also, even if you stay under your turret in the 2~3 minutes mark, you still in danger of getting dived by lv 3 double buff Elise/Seju/Lee, the people who can easily dive in early game, especially when you're level 2.

EssenceOfPoo2/11/2018, 7:25:23 PM5 votes

Hashinshit: Warding does nothing

[sg-miss-fortune]

but then again that guy is preoccupied thinking the game is league of street fighter where top lane champions should be balanced around laning phase so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

MorgManBasher2/12/2018, 11:08:15 AM4 votes

Oh look, a gold player that doesn't play top lane telling top laners how to play their lane. I wish top lane was only ganked once, that would be beautiful.

Squey2/12/2018, 10:53:13 PM3 votes

Its more like. Darius Hey jungler Teemo is pushing me so far into my tower that even if its warded he is a free kill. LeeSin .... Darius hey man he is still pushing me to my tower, im getting really far behind. Free kill if you come. Teemo Has slain darius. Tower dove by teemo and his jungler.
Darius Hey lee teemo's flash and ignite are down. Super easy kill top. LeeSin ... 2 min later Teemo Double kill. LeeSin Your trash Darius Im lv 5 and he is level 7. You waited till he has the entire place covered in shrooms before you ganked.... Teemo Takes top tower down.

10 min later. Team: "OMG teemo is super fed. You suck darius. " LeeSin "/all chat pls report darius, Inting and toxic." Darius "lee you have more deaths then me." LeeSin How do you even lose that match up? Only noobs lose to teemo. Tristana Dang darius your useless. Sona "/all chat gg report darius"

0-6-2 sona /surrender and game ends 18 min in. Lee gets awarded most honorable player on team.

Human Bullet2/12/2018, 11:05:28 AM3 votes

so not only have you never played top lane but you also have no idea how junglers work, cute.

Almighty Teemo2/12/2018, 1:38:56 PM3 votes

Funny, I always expect the lvl 3 gank from the enemy jungler, but I also expect my jungler to do literally nothing in the meantime.

Rootlo2/12/2018, 2:40:32 PM3 votes

PSA: When im laning vs an immobile opponent and i blew their flash. And i type in chat that they are pushed up and they havent left lane to ward that river bush, and i tell you that its a free kill, but you as a jungler keep wasting time dying trying to dive botlane then you suck.

Im trying to give you free kills, just come take them

PePsiLemoNN2/11/2018, 8:57:40 PM3 votes

But ... they literally dived me min 0:20 and 1shot me.

GGLineaR2/12/2018, 1:52:32 AM2 votes

It's worth noting that Top lane actually is horrible right now. But jungle is also in a very bad spot too.

Pretending that one is worse than the other, however, when you can't really compare the two is a bad idea.

DarkElfDaddy2/11/2018, 7:22:55 PM2 votes

I hope this travels to the eye's that need to read it.

Villainous V2/11/2018, 8:44:54 PM2 votes

Lol man I feel you. Remember playing jungle rammus against a jungle twitch and telling my nasus exactly what he was going to do. "Nasus don't overextend, twitch is gonna get red buff and lvl 2 cheese you with stealth and the slow." 1min later "An ally has been slain" Wtf man.

Iffy Jarl2/11/2018, 10:20:44 PM2 votes

Anyone who hasn't extensively played a role shouldn't be taken seriously when talking about it. There are so many champs that I once thought were so oppressive and once I played them enough I learned their ins, outs and weaknesses it's like when you first start and out and Teemo just seems so oppressive but you realise that all you need to do is not feed ur ass off and he is useless in team fights.

PopcornBunni2/12/2018, 12:14:57 AM2 votes

Okay but what about when Quinn has been pushed up and I've been under my tower for literally 6 minutes straight without any sign of a gank from my jungler then get bitched out for losing lane?

Cavemantero2/12/2018, 3:24:47 AM2 votes

I 2nd this:

Just played jg Olaf with a top lane Mundo who didn't ban Yasuo. Goes 0-1 to him. I gank his lane a couple of times and I get 2 kills on Yas. Mundo goes back up and dies to him under tower again. He proceeds to lose lane, loses tower, doesn't ward bush, doesn't ward at all. I go and kill the Yas AGAIN after he pushes too hard and comes in the jungle AGAIN even though Im down a level on Yas. Mundo goes to gank bot and loses his 2nd tower, then dies to Yas again under inhib tower. I don't know who he banned but if he can't play against yas he doesn't need to pick mundo or top for all that matter.

pryda0222/12/2018, 5:11:16 AM2 votes

{quoted}

When you:

  1. know that the enemy jungler is a ganker who got leashed bot,
  2. literally memorized the exact time he'll show up from getting first-blooded your last 40 games,
  3. still don't ward your shit at 2:30, and
  4. shove your lane as an immobile champion,

then you don't get to say "lol jungle is op top lane sucks", because a disabled chimpanzee playing AP Riven jungle would've killed your ass.

There is a 1-minute window in the entire game where the enemy jungler is interested in ganking top, before heading bot and mid to snowball the carries. And you still managed to die. That's your problem.

I'm honestly jealous of you. I'm fucking garbage, hardstuck at this shit elo. But you...

You can very easily improve as a player and climb with this One Simple Trick. But you won't do that. You're probably going to downvote and get first-blooded next game too. By all means, go ahead. I'm just putting this out there.

As a fellow jungler who is also a top laner your advice is flawed. If your top laner is a strong early game champ and is pushing he just made your job that easy to counter gAnk. Being able to judge who wins 2v2’s top at level 3 and who wins 3v3 and 4v4 at level 6 is the junglers job. And if you win 2v2 top then u want them to gAnk and I need to be there to make them pay not do a straight 6 camp clear and force your top to play like a pussy

Critmaster Garen2/12/2018, 7:50:34 AM2 votes

the problem is more that they dont just come once. catch up xp allows them to try 3 or 4 times in a row or sit in a lane bush for a full minute without getting punished for it. theyre not falling behind for camping your lane and not getting anything out of it, because they just get more xp on the next camp.

it was a lot worse last season though. they already tuned catch up xp down a notch. they can still camp a lot and not fall behind though.

DingDongDanger2/12/2018, 8:48:07 AM2 votes

My only beef with junglers is when they literally do nothing all game and just stay in jungle. Doing top is crap when you have your counter and your jungler is literally completely useless. Example: My kindred today... I screwed up my wave push (my bad admitted) and the enemy got ahead, I continuously got him to a quarter health without dying, about 3 times by lvl 6, and my jungler didn't even attempt to gank lane once even though it would have been an easy early feed for her. THEN she comes up top and sits in river bush, I get jumped literally 5 feet from her thinking she'd help (since she's there duh) and nope... she just sits in the bush, and then walks away. She continues to int for the rest of the game and we lose. GG Kindred.

People really underestimate how important a good jungler actually is. They help you get ahead in your lane and can shut down hard counters for your champion giving you the advantage as well as split push. When I jungle I try to help whatever lane needs it the most. If top is struggling I babysit top. If bottom needs some help I'll head there. Whoever is struggling is the lane I like to help because it will help keep them from feeding and allow them to get some pressure and feed in their lanes.

arghilost2/12/2018, 2:09:12 PM2 votes

imagine knowing all this and still being the jungler that doesn't show up top level 3 for the easy double when your top has lane/creep advantage. Not surprised you're hardstuck silver.

Illivashi2/12/2018, 10:56:33 PM1 votes

I'm honestly jealous of you. I'm fucking garbage, hardstuck at this shit elo. But you... You can very easily improve as a player and climb with this One Simple Trick. But you won't do that. You're probably going to downvote and get first-blooded next game too. By all means, go ahead. I'm just putting this out there.

Eh, this might be fine for the 2:30 mark, but I have had games where the jungler ganks 2:30, I live. Ganks 3:30 -> blow ghost or flash, ganks 4:30 -> forced out of lane/killed, all via separate routs so a single ward isn't fixing shit. And then you just look over at your jungler afk farming 0/0/0. But to all those saying "Lol just play safe dude," its not even about the kills. I might not give up any kills to ganks, but because my opponent has jg pressure and I don't, I am having to give up farm, exp, etc, meaning my opponent is getting a free lead from a little wasted time by the enemy jg. And you best pray that this small lead isn't on a late game scaling nightmare like GP, Vlad who now get to poke me and farm for free since I have to be prepared to 1v2 if I want to trade back.

As a top main I've been forced to climb to plat without ganks in prob 80+% of my games. I have to practically 1v2 (sometimes 1v3) the whole laning phase and still snowball my lane to win since half the time the lanes my jungler is camping are all inting anyways. However, this is mostly only possible in plat 3 and below because normally my opponents will luckily.. kinda suck. In higher elo, lol good luck.

So while I am fine with the whole "watch for ganks at 2:30 thing," the rest makes it sound like top laners are just whiny trash players who can't learn simple wave management and warding, and that if we play safe all will be well. When in reality, to climb you normally have to approach the game as a 1v9 because in low elo you can't trust your adc or mid laner from randomly trying to 1v5 at the beginning of a team fight. So playing super safe and conceding any lead you have is pretty much saying "welp, lets roll the dice and hope my team mates don't suck."

Also, the one minute window your talking about is kinda BS. While that 1 minute window might exist in the eyes of junglers on my team (practically minions who can type), the opponent jungler always seems to find time for me when I am snowballing, forcing me to 1v2/3 for a double kill and then mute my jungler when they say "good job" because I have to hold myself back from flaming them and telling them they aren't going to deserve the free win I am giving them.

So while I respect the 2:30 thing and also respect that there might be some pretty stupid people who play top lane who just int all day in any role, please don't act like this one piece of advice from a silver jungler suddenly fixes everything and that we will suddenly get to climb to diamond with your One Simple Trick.

Edit: And on the flip side to this you are trying to act like jungling is super difficult and "oh I envy you, I have to learn all these things, mean while my top laners get to climb with braindead gameplay." Uhhhhhhhhhhh, what?

What Is Smite2/12/2018, 2:40:29 AM1 votes

As someone who plays top and jungle I'll say this: Junglers tend to not capitalize when the laner pings out a used summoner spell especially Flash, that's a 5 minute/300s CD (255s with Spellbook). To the top laners who shove top without means of escape you guys are pretty damn retarded, either take the fight 2v1 and hope to trade kills or slow push so you're not fucked.

Marshbouy2/12/2018, 12:51:23 AM1 votes

This x100

MooooooooreDakka2/12/2018, 12:03:48 PM1 votes

As someone who has problems with this a lot, what are the usual times for early game ganks with the other jungler starting at the buff near you and at the buff opposite you?

Blåbæret2/12/2018, 12:49:09 AM1 votes

Top lane mains love to cry their eyes out because "jungle is OP". Literally the only reason to go top is to get free kills, and it so happens to be rather often that some mong is pushing his lane for no reason and is asking to be ganked. You don't get to cry when you're continously making that these sorts of mistake.

The Minion hunt2/13/2018, 1:31:18 AM1 votes

where is the counter gank or you dropping your ward top, were is you trailing your enemy jungle follow him? if my lane tp I tp, if my lane roams I ping mia or I follow him/ both. I ward for your opponent but I cant get that counter gank or ward if I'm pushed? more then 50% of jungles don't do their job. Keep tabs of what side of the map the jungle is on, trail him if he is early game to some sort don't get caught. ward so top can gank him. shit I know you just wanna free farm.

MajorMunchies2/12/2018, 4:11:28 AM1 votes

The problem with this is that some lanes almost require you to push. Ever play toplane vs a nasus? Don't harass him, he gets free farm and stacks. Harass him? the wave pushes into his tower, and he has wither making ganks extremely easy. Ever play gangplank? If you want to proc kelptomancy at all you need to q someone. On top of that if you ever decide to use barrels in lane you will end up pushing.

Another example: Sion, you want to harass with ANY of your abilities? you end up pushing the lane. Another example: Rumble... no explanation needed Another example: Teemo, Pantheon, Jayce - if you intend to use the champ for what they're made for (harassing) you WILL push the wave More examples: Olaf - want to use those axes? I thought so.

In theory this whole "don't push and ward up" sounds great, but in practice there's much more to it than that. Been playing toplane since season 2. Peaked at plat 5 (yeah not the greatest but whatever)

This is the reason why you see diamond, master, and challenger players dying to early ganks.

Automated Riven2/12/2018, 4:20:13 AM1 votes

While I agree that laners should ward early to avoid those ganks. It sucks that most top lane matchups are either 1 reliant on the jungler to even be useful. Or 2. So bad for you/your opponent that if your/his jungler doesn't come it's an auto loss the entire game. (as games in solo que are typically short enough that out scaling isn't really an option)

We just want to have agency over our own lane, similar to how mid bot have some aspects of agency even if they are losing.

Plus like keystones that don't feel like shit to use (klepto comet spellbook)

anmyauntieonpo2/12/2018, 12:13:14 AM1 votes

{quoted}

When you:

  1. know that the enemy jungler is a ganker who got leashed bot,
  2. literally memorized the exact time he'll show up from getting first-blooded your last 40 games,
  3. still don't ward your shit at 2:30, and
  4. shove your lane as an immobile champion,

then you don't get to say "lol jungle is op top lane sucks", because a disabled chimpanzee playing AP Riven jungle would've killed your ass.

There is a 1-minute window in the entire game where the enemy jungler is interested in ganking top, before heading bot and mid to snowball the carries. And you still managed to die. That's your problem.

I'm honestly jealous of you. I'm fucking garbage, hardstuck at this shit elo. But you...

You can very easily improve as a player and climb with this One Simple Trick. But you won't do that. You're probably going to downvote and get first-blooded next game too. By all means, go ahead. I'm just putting this out there.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, not my actual opinion or experience :O :

It's weird you were doing topside scuttle as this gank happened, and I managed to 2 v 1 both enemies to below 100 health while you sat there autoing a monster. You could have easily gone up and counterganked as soon as this gank happened and ended up with a 2 for 1 at the very least.

Pendergast8912/11/2018, 11:56:48 PM1 votes

My favorite is when my top dies to a darius or renekton solo pre 3 minutes. Then immediately tps into the middle of the lane and getting killed by top and jg. Then spam pings for help when their laner can now easily 2v1. No I'm not going up there unless we get the whole team as well cuz that's just feeding them even more money.