So, yeah.. that Thornmail item that has existed forever.. kind of sucks balls.
Why? It is completely countered by 1 lifesteal item. Please add a passive to Thornmail applies Grievous Wounds when it applies reflect damage.
Thanks.
Lol they don't even need an item anymore. Warlords is good enough.
https://embed.gyazo.com/592489ee47272b1a374946e5d745212c.gif "Sucks balls" hehe
I honestly think thornmail should be removed from the game.
Tank main opinion on the item (it's my own opinion though): thornmail punishes champions for fighting tanks correctly. Tanks are weak to sustained damage and the items meant to counter it are about making it happen slower (Omen, heart). Thornmail however punishes the opponent for a continued stream of damage that's meant to whittle down the tank.
"But thornmail is weak right now!"
Yeah it is and it can't be strong because of how it punishes you for fighting tanks correctly. If thornmail was good enough to be core on every tank build, then tanks would have no counter (well I guess it would be sustained magic damage that would counter them then. But sustained magic damage is rare and hard to balance).
Omen and heart don't punish people from fighting tanks correctly, they just make it harder.
Yep, it's pretty useless item. Life steal and magic resist makes thornmail useless.
It's not meant to completely negate lifesteal.
It's fine as it is.
How about no? I dont want tanks being dominant this is what assassins and mages are for to oneshot the adc with their burst
You can't buff thornmail. You just can't. Reflect damage is a very toxic and cancerous mechanic in any game, let alone this game.
I'm sure you never fought a fed rammus in the late game as a melee or ranged AD carry, but it is stupid. The fact that you kill yourself by attacking is not cool.
If you ask me I think thornmail should be reworked into a pure defensive powerhouse against physical damage. Something like removing the reflect entirely, adding 50 armor, and a new passive that reduces all physical damage taken by 10%-15%
I'll pop in here and say what I usually do about Thorn.
It shouldn't even be a Tank item. Tank gear should be about helping your team directly or indirectly. That can be with auras, with slows, with slow burn damage in an AoE, or even just a bunch of CDR to help you spam your CC more often.
Thron shouldn't be a Tank item. It should be a Diver item. It should help give tanky champions and edge over that Marksmen they just jumped on. To that end, allow me to suggest something completely different.
.
Grants armor, attack speed, 40 magic damage OnHit, and- Unique passive: Your basic attacks apply stacks of Gored to enemy units, stacking up to eight times. Melee attacks apply two stacks per hit. Unique passive: For each stack of Gored on an enemy unit, you reflect (percentage) of the physical damage they deal (pre-mitigation) as magic damage.
Clean, simple, and most importantly interactive. The problem with Thorn is that you don't have to do anything for it to mess someone up. That's why it must be so weak. But by adding in the requirement to actually interact with champions attacking you, suddenly there's room for counter-play. Don't let Irelia jump on you and you won't have your damage reflected. By adding OnHit damage into the mix, this new Thorn also helps to make you more of a threat even when you aren't being attacked, unlike live Thorn.
With the addition of Knight's Vow and Deadman's Plate to the game I would argue that there are ample armor options in the game for Vanguards, Juggernauts, and Wardens alike. Divers could really use some itemization tailored to them.
But then they'd have to increase the cost, and it's already a hard buy. The combine cost is like 1250 isn't it? Totally absurd.
I've never really understood the whole 'It's countered by lifesteal items!' line.
Isn't Thornmail the counter item? You are trying to make THEIR items less valuable by buying Thornmail. Obviously the purpose of Thornmail is not to make it so no auto attacker can ever survive an encounter with you because they kill themselves, that would be horrible. The point is to reduce the effectiveness of their build by weakening their damage and sustain.
I think people see that effect and just expect to much. Buying one item should not allow you to auto win every encounter with auto attack centric heroes via making attacking their opponent a losing strategy.
I feel thornmail is fine as it is. Yes, lifesteal PLUS MR will counter it, but that's 2 items countering one, it's better than the other way around. It should not let you just sit back and have adcs kill themselves no matter what they build, it'd be unhealthy. Having said that, slight buff in % of damage reflected (add another 5%) could be appropriate, but MR+lifesteal countering it is how life should be. If you really want grevious wounds, you can get an appropriate item in addition.
[{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-09T13:48:53.874+0000)
So, yeah.. that Thornmail item that has existed forever.. kind of sucks balls.
Why? It is completely countered by 1 lifesteal item. Please add a passive to Thornmail applies Grievous Wounds when it applies reflect damage.
Thanks.
It only sucks if you're asking it to do something it isn't supposed to. Even with LifeSteal, you're diminishing their healing. Get grevious, get a Sunfire, and you're passively doing damage that you can't without those items.
i would like 2 thromnails. one with GW and one that negates critical strikes by half( or insert balanced number here). this way adc would finally have some fkn counterplay in mid/late game
the point is to force the enemy to buy a lifesteal item imo
can we stop saying thornmail is countered by lifesteal when in fact lifesteal is countered by thornmail?
Tanks shouldn't be allowed to 2v1 an ADC + Soraka, that's not fair at all when tanks can already 1v2 mages, supports and assassins
Even more important: Thornmail and sunfire cape exist to lessen sustain and have damage that adds up. Stop acting as if thornmail is a damage item that's meant to make ADCs literally kill themselves.
We would like Thornmail buffs
