Changes to rank system

Crispykills·Apr 1, 2015·3 votes·1,737 views

I believe the solo que rank system is complete non sense. There are many ways to make the climb more rewarding and fun for those climbing to master tier for the 5th time and those (filthy) casuals just trying to play and see progress. I find the rank system solely based on win/loss doesnt help at all. In a solo que match it should be based more on solo stats, its completely ludicrous for a player to have stats like 17/4/3 with 350 cs in 35 mins to win a game and gain 13 points. And on the opposing side if they lose to lose 20lp. Where as a clearly lesser player who went 3/15/3 with 112 cs in 35 mins to win and get 18lp and get promoted. IT should be based more on your personal in game stats. If someone is keeping up in lcs stat farm game and kills consistently, how do they be penalized for a lesser skilled team or a 4v5.

Speaking of 4v5 those games should always be terminated or just give loss prevented to all players except the rage quitter or troll. I would find and im sure many others could agree that even if you lose with stats like 17/3/4 you should gain LP because you clearly are higher skill level and dont belong in what ever rank you are currently at. This will stop most rage and boosters. also makes for a more rewarding time playing because you will see progress in your status as opposed to winning 4 games and losing 2 to equal 0 LP. It makes people not want to play because its essentially a waste of time. You update stuff all the time, why not alter the way rankings work as well? Its the biggest part of LoL.

Ps. Also give my fav champ fiora a new skin, like a pool party skin where she beats you with a pool noodle in a swim suit, or a zorro outfit where she ults and leaves her initial, or even a steampunk fence team fiora. Thanks

27 Comments

COWmanLordApr 3, 20153 votes

The main problems with your system stem from how easy it is to abuse. If you can gain lp without winning then suddenly the focus becomes "What can I do to increase my stats" rather than "what can I do to win the game". This would be terrible and would only worsen a community that already struggles with toxic people.

Now here is the essay I ended up writing on why judging individual players would be very very difficult.

Creating an accurate system to score each player individually would be nearly impossible and saying that isn't nearly as much of an exaggeration as you might think it is. Riot would have to create what would most likely be the longest and most complicated piece of code ever written in order to make it accurately measure every play

For example you place a ward in dragon pit. Do you get points or lose points?

This seems obvious. Why would it be bad to have dragon warded? Well, here are a list of questions you have to ask to truly know if that was a good ward.

1. Where in the pit is the ward. You may have placed the ward in the back of dragon pit, meaning it gets you less vision of the river, but it is also less likely to get swept or found by a pink depending on where it is.

2. Was the ward just to check over the wall to see if they are getting Dragon? If the ward is just to avoid facechecking, is it worth any less than a regular ward, placed for vision? It may keep you from walking into a bad situation, or let you get the timer, but it could also just end up being a waste of a ward.

3. Will Dragon spawn within the time the ward is placed? Clearly placing a sight ward that will just fade away because dragon doesn't spawn for 3 mins is a waste, but if you didn't have the timer you may not have known that.

4. What role are you playing? Typically it's either the support or junger who keeps dragon warded. However is your ward worth any less if you are the mid laner or adc? What if you are the top laner and you walked all the way down from top lane just to place a ward?

5. What was your team doing while you warded? For example your team was grouping top and pushing for the inhib while you were warding, and loses a teamfight because you were not there. Or what if your team was grouping for drag? Maybe a teamfight had just ended and you were placing the ward before you backed.

6. Did anyone find your ward? If someone got extra gold because the found and killed your ward that helps their team, but how does it affect your score? Maybe you placed it in a rarely swept spot and they just got lucky or misclicked. Maybe your ward was in the obvious place, but your team needed that spot warded.

7. What happened while you warded? You could have missed farm or gotten killed while warding. Maybe you went to ward as a support and your adc got hit by a blitz hook and died.

This is a quick list of different things to take into account even when all you did was place a ward in a specific spot. As you can see each of these questions also generated several more specific questions to go along with it. Now imagine you multiply this for every spot on the map you can ward. Some of those spots would have more questions to ask, some would have less. In the end though there would be a huge amount of programming to be done, simply to cover warding. You would have to do even more do calculate every aspect of a teamfight.

Now you should clearly see that creating an accurate system that can thoroughly evaluate every aspect of a game would be ridiculous to attempt. Not only because of the incredible amount of time and resources that would need to be spent to develop this program, but also because of the godlike computer system needed to maintain it. Riot would need to have a system of servers running an unimaginably complex piece of code for every single player playing a ranked game all at the same time, for every single action they make. The data storage needed would also have to be gigantic.

You may be asking, "Why can't they just do something simpler than this piece of god-code?" The answer to that: expoitability. If the code isn't this complex then it would be too easy to exploit. For example if every ward a player placed gave that player 0.01 points, then people would just buy sightstone and sit in base for 20 minutes spamming wards. Even if you make it so that only well placed wards give you those points, then people will just race to the areas which give more points to try and place wards before anyone else can. It needs to be this complex to get rid of the potential for exploitation.

TLDR:

Riot needs to make the most complex piece of code in the world to accurately judge everyone's individual performance.
If they don't people can just exploit it.
They would also need a god-computer to run that code.

KazaashiApr 1, 20151 votes

What good did going 20/4/10 with 400 CS at 40 mins if you didn't win the game? That is why the Ranking system only looks at Win/Loss Ratio. The only thing that matters is if you are able to turn that awesome #LCSBigPlays KDA into a win for your team, then obviously you need to work on something.

CrispykillsApr 1, 20151 votes

I addressed the issue already, so an opposing player who goes 3/15 gets promoted and its ok? So is losing LP for a 4v5? You didnt understand what im saying, solo que is for individual skill, it should be based on such just like in WoW. Win/Loss should be for 5v5 teams, these stats mean you dont belong in the elo your at, and obviously its a team game, one person doesnt win you the game, Thats like putting a pro basket ball player 1v5 agaisnt any college or high school team, he wont win, but he is definetly better than all of the other players, the rank system should reflect that.

KazaashiApr 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I addressed the issue already, so an opposing player who goes 3/15 gets promoted and its ok? So is losing LP for a 4v5? You didnt understand what im saying, solo que is for individual skill, it should be based on such just like in WoW. Win/Loss should be for 5v5 teams, these stats mean you dont belong in the elo your at, and obviously its a team game, one person doesnt win you the game, Thats like putting a pro basket ball player 1v5 agaisnt any college or high school team, he wont win, but he is definetly better than all of the other players, the rank system should reflect that.

The ranking system is based off of Elo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Because this is a team game, your individual performance is too subjective to accurately measure with statistics in a way that is unexploitable or financially feasible. The only way to measure if your performance has a meaningful impact in games is how many you win vs how many you lose. The only consistent factor in your games is you. Individual performance in one game doesn't matter. Your performance over 50-100 games matters more, and the most reliable way to qualify that is through Wins vs Losses and the order in which they are achieved.

Also WoW PvP and LoL PvP are not the same at all. Apples and oranges.

CrispykillsApr 1, 20151 votes

That's my point exactly, win/loss isn't everything. By your logic playing well shouldn't be rewarded if the other 4 people feed or rage quit, which results in a lose then you suffer from it as well. That's not fun nor does it encourage a player to keep playing. There is a match history for a reason, that's a perfect way to keep track of consistency. Other factors such as an outstanding kda, cs, obj taken should be factored in so the player can see progress due to the lengthy amount of time dedicated to playing. At that point everyone might as well play bad n let the team carry them for a win whe, they don't deserve it. Win/loss should be for set teams, solo Que should reflect more of solo skills.

ZephyrDrakeApr 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's my point exactly, win/loss isn't everything. By your logic playing well shouldn't be rewarded if the other 4 people feed or rage quit, which results in a lose then you suffer from it as well. That's not fun nor does it encourage a player to keep playing. There is a match history for a reason, that's a perfect way to keep track of consistency. Other factors such as an outstanding kda, cs, obj taken should be factored in so the player can see progress due to the lengthy amount of time dedicated to playing. At that point everyone might as well play bad n let the team carry them for a win whe, they don't deserve it. Win/loss should be for set teams, solo Que should reflect more of solo skills.

stop trying, if you do well but still fail to win then guess what? you aren't doing well enough. You can have a horrible KDA but still be useful to the team just like you can have a godlike KDA and be the most worthless member in the team. Kills/cs/barons/dragons means nothing if you don't translate them into killing the nexus. You can kill the enemy all you like it won't change the fact that if that's all you do then you aren't doing anything useful. HELP YOUR TEAM SINCE THIS IS A TEAM GAME

CrispykillsApr 2, 20151 votes

I won't stop trying just like you won't stop being negative. I seen you write on other posts the same things your saying here. You only comment on the win/loss not any other topics I touched on. The fact that you don't see how a matchmaking system named soli Que should reflect solo skill is apparent. Like I said, it's not just about the win/loss. Point being 4v5 games still count against you. And with a godlike kda/farm ect, as a solo Que player , that player doesn't belong in that league with those stats regardless of win/loss.

ZephyrDrakeApr 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I won't stop trying just like you won't stop being negative. I seen you write on other posts the same things your saying here. You only comment on the win/loss not any other topics I touched on. The fact that you don't see how a matchmaking system named soli Que should reflect solo skill is apparent. Like I said, it's not just about the win/loss. Point being 4v5 games still count against you. And with a godlike kda/farm ect, as a solo Que player , that player doesn't belong in that league with those stats regardless of win/loss.

i don't care if you have something like 9999999/0/0 if you cannot win YOU CANNOT ADVANCE. This is a TEAM game, not a SOLO game but that's okay, keep wasting your time by trying to change a system to something that's even more broken and so easily exploitable it's not even funny

CrispykillsApr 2, 20151 votes

You literally make no sense and missed my point completely

ZephyrDrakeApr 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You literally make no sense and missed my point completely

cry more baby

red panda zApr 1, 20151 votes

I made a big talk about a way to address the ranked system in a way that promoted good skills as an individual player instead of solely based on your teams' win or loss, but no one responded :/

If anyone's interested... http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/5QcN49Ue-suggestion-for-ranked-system

CrispykillsApr 2, 20151 votes

I completely agree you wrote a great article!

pastagayApr 2, 20151 votes

Winning the game is WINNING THE GAME, not doing well and then losing.

CrispykillsApr 2, 20151 votes

So you condone someone feeding and being carried rewarded with a promotion? Also someone rage quitting n you suffering a lose in lp because of it. If your going to comment at least be critical and back up statements. Individual performance should be rewarded. Just like every other sport or game. Its nit just a win/loss

pastagayApr 2, 20151 votes

But it is. If you compare it to some sport of real sport like soccer: You won't win the World Cup if your team loses every game no matter how well you play.

CrispykillsApr 2, 20151 votes

that is a set team, if someone in high school is playing outstanding and is a clear stand out from the rest of the competition but his team loses, does he not still get offered a scholarship? does he still not get awards? If its going to be win/loss then have set teams, not a game mode called solo que that isnt based on solo skill. There should be a reward for a player who does really well but as a team fails to win. Its not a hard concept.

KazaashiApr 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So you condone someone feeding and being carried rewarded with a promotion? Also someone rage quitting n you suffering a lose in lp because of it. If your going to comment at least be critical and back up statements. Individual performance should be rewarded. Just like every other sport or game. Its nit just a win/loss

If someone consistently feeds, they will not climb. Sure, they may get carried sometimes a win some games, but not enough to climb.

CrispykillsApr 2, 20151 votes

No shit they wont climb, however if the feeder is on your team, how does the game justify you also suffering a loss in lp for him feeding? or opposite if u manage to win the game regardless of feeders, why should the feeder gain lp for a win?? Its like saying whats the point of performing above average if you can just let the team carry you and gain lp, there should be rewards for playing well. Its not a hard concept, mebe not as much lp as you would from winning, but if u played exceptional and the team lost there should still be some lp to at least lessen the lp loss or even it out. Not fair at all to try and carry a game and lose 20lp with an amazing kda. you still havent adressed the 4v5 issue. It would be more pleasurable experience for all players if the rank system changed a bit.

KazaashiApr 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No shit they wont climb, however if the feeder is on your team, how does the game justify you also suffering a loss in lp for him feeding? or opposite if u manage to win the game regardless of feeders, why should the feeder gain lp for a win?? Its like saying whats the point of performing above average if you can just let the team carry you and gain lp, there should be rewards for playing well. Its not a hard concept, mebe not as much lp as you would from winning, but if u played exceptional and the team lost there should still be some lp to at least lessen the lp loss or even it out. Not fair at all to try and carry a game and lose 20lp with an amazing kda. you still havent adressed the 4v5 issue. It would be more pleasurable experience for all players if the rank system changed a bit.

Because I understand that the enemy team has a higher chance of getting a feeder/troll/afk/dc so after I play 200 games, I will actually have won more from the feeders/afks/trolls/dc, than lost.

If you consistently preform above average, you will win more games than lose and you will climb. It may not be as fast or as smooth as you want it to be, but that depends on your skill lvl vs the people you are matched with.

CrispykillsApr 2, 20151 votes

Again its not the point of my article, i understand how the current rank system works, i dont need 7 people to explain it to me, this is a suggestion to make the rank system better and more rewarding for players in general. How can you not see that? you still havent addressed a nullification or reset in game when there is a disconnect or a rage quit turning it to a 4v5 or 3v5. Regardless of win loss. if you perform exceptional regardless of outcome consistently there should be rewards so u can see progress in the game you spend so much time on. This isnt an article about me and my play style, this is for the many who feel this way about the rank system. And so even if you consistenly perform above average it doesnt mean a win everytime. How ever there should still be bonus lp for playing at a high level.

KazaashiApr 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Again its not the point of my article, i understand how the current rank system works, i dont need 7 people to explain it to me, this is a suggestion to make the rank system better and more rewarding for players in general. How can you not see that? you still havent addressed a nullification or reset in game when there is a disconnect or a rage quit turning it to a 4v5 or 3v5. Regardless of win loss. if you perform exceptional regardless of outcome consistently there should be rewards so u can see progress in the game you spend so much time on. This isnt an article about me and my play style, this is for the many who feel this way about the rank system. And so even if you consistenly perform above average it doesnt mean a win everytime. How ever there should still be bonus lp for playing at a high level.

I don't think you fully understand. The system is designed to make up for the rage quitters and the 4v5/3v5/2v5s. Loss prevention for them would just be exploited and it attempts to solve a non-existent problem.

Given that you are not the DC/AFK/Troll/Feeder, you have a 4 out of 5 chance to get one on your team and a 5 out of 5 chance to get one on the enemy team. With a long enough series, there will be more undesirables on the enemy teams than on yours, so you should be able to capitalize on this more often than the other team, which will lead you to win more games. Maybe you need to work on finding the weak link on the enemy team and exploiting the shit out of them.

The system rewards you for winning. That should be your only objective when playing the game. Blowing up the enemy Nexus is the only thing that matters in the entire game, not how many Barons you got, Towers crushed, CS achieved, Kills scored, or wards placed. All of those things help you win and are necessary steps in getting to the enemy Nexus; however, literally none of that matters if you cannot destroy it first.

You don't have to win everytime to climb in ranking only 51% of the time. It will be a slow and infuriating climb, but it will happen.

CrispykillsApr 3, 20151 votes

i completely understand how this system works, and this are just my suggestions to make it better. So first off i clearly said loss prevention for those left in the game, not the quitter. The person who quit gets a loss. 2nd off, lets not talk about who understand things when u claim that a 4 out of 5 chance ( which is 80%) to get troll. and a 5 out of 5 chance (100%) to get one on their team is completely false. Although i do appreciate you telling me the overall goal of how to win a game, which i dont need and again isnt the point of my article. Lets get you some credibility by understanding simple math. If you read my article or this response, understand that these suggestions are again to reward players for outstanding play, regardless of win or loss. and also to help not get a loss in a 4v5, and actually feel and see the progress/rewards to continue motivation to not only keep playing but to keep supporting the free game by donating money and such. So yes, it should count on how many kills you have, cs, barons ect. because thats how you carry a game as oppose to being in the low level skill bracket, it will help the person in SOLO que advance to where he should be. There is ranked teams for a reason, and there is solo que. win/loss should be for the ranked teams. not solo que

masterdragon481Apr 3, 20151 votes

Changing the ranked system in this way would be toxic as all hell; people wouldn't act as a cohesive team and would compete with each other so they moved up the most at the end of the game. It doesn't promote teamwork in what is a TEAM game. It's just going to make all of the self entitled jerks yell and blame team mates even more. Also by this logic, supports and tank junglers (who die more times in games than adc's might) will by definition move up more slowly than an adc, which is completely unfair.

What the ranked system needs is a loss forgiven and no lp loss for a dodge (maybe with some limit as to how many of these you can do). It is completely unfair to lose lp when you are playing a 4v5 for the entire game. Those that disconnected from the game would not get this benefit and would lose their lp the same as now. The second reason is if you just lost a game dude to a toxic player, queue up again, and get the same person on your team a second time, it is ludicrous to be forced to play another game with them.

CrispykillsApr 3, 20151 votes

Appreciate your constructive input sir, however i disagree with you. The people who play league are already toxic as hell, and nothing will change this community, it is world wide renowned as the worst community ever in all of gaming. With that said, the jungle/tanks/supp would all be different stats required. Such as assists, damage taken, amount healed ect. for that role. And yes it is a team game, however i feel it would be way more rewarding to receive the bonus lp from each stat in game, to if not boost, at least lessen the LP loss. for example winning a bonus of 11 lp bu losing the game losing u 20 lp only results in 9 lp loss. or even nullify it completely. This would promote a healthy enviornment and motivation for players to actually play better. we all know poeple all believe they are challenge tier, but in game most likely feed ect. With the bonus LP to individual efforts, this game would be much more improved all around. Also, im glad we agree on th 4v5 loss prevented motif. IT is extremly common for someone to feed and afk. Others should not suffer from that.

masterdragon481Apr 3, 20151 votes

Edit: hopefully I added this before you read it; but if this community is so toxic, why should you bring about a system that promotes it even more? That just seems like you are digging the hole even deeper.

If it was only lessening lp loss then you might be able to make an argument for it. Otherwise there is just too much room for abuse. Tanks could intentionally tank extra tower shots or take more damage from camps to lower health to get more lp. Taking a champion with a heal would become mandatory because otherwise you aren't maximizing the amount of lp you can get per game. I realize that I am being really picky here, but I think that there would be no efficient way of making this work.

In addition, you touch upon a problem that doesn't really have an answer in League; champion roles are not set in stone. How would the game distinguish the mid laner, adc, support, and top laner? I suppose one way could be the items that they build, but tanky top laners could still be confused with supports. If there is no way to identify who played each role, you can't assign lp (or have lp reductions) based on role.

Yea, we definitely agree on the 4v5 business. It wouldn't be abuse proof, but I think if you made the lp punishment for leaving a game more severe and didn't punish the others, it would be a little more fair.

CrispykillsApr 3, 20151 votes

There could be ways such as in team builder to label the role you intend to play (tank,mage,fighter ect.) And i really dont think it is promoting toxicity, because not everyone is toxic, its just people no matter what. How ever, there should be things for multikills,(doubles,triple,penta) because it is such a rare acheivement it should mean more. The extra lp gains would really help motivate to keep playing well and performing well and im sure with a combined effort in brainstorming we could come out with a great way to add some new changes to make it more insteresting and also more rewarding for your average solo que player. Of course there are ways to exploit everything, just like the old jungle items for mad-stone, that doesnt mean never improve on the game. If someone is in the jungle taking extra dmg for the lp bonus for example, somone can counter jung for the kill or they just wont be helping their team making it really pointless as to how the game is played anyway. And the stats will reflect that because after game stats show (dmg dealt, dmg taken from champs, dmg dealt to champs ect)

masterdragon481Apr 3, 20151 votes

Team builder is far from the norm and isn't ranked. So the fact that team builder identifies roles is actually completely irrelevant because there is no lp to gain or lose from playing those games.

I also fundamentally disagree that this kind of system isn't promoting toxicity. Your motivation is no longer on winning the game but is based on selfishly acquiring the most you can for yourself.

To pick apart your pentakill argument, there are a large number of factors that go into a champion getting a penta kill. Why should an champion that gets more of the kills get more benefit out of the engagement? If the ADC only managed to get the last hit on all 5 champions, they don't deserve to get extra lp.

To pick apart your counter jungling argument, you are assuming that the enemy jungler knows that this jungler is doing that. That is an assumption that can't be made. Junglers would most likely gank and interact with their teammates less so that they could max their own lp gains. And if junglers aren't helping their team, just like you said, it would be pointless as to how the game is played.

There is way more going on behind the scenes that stats by themselves don't explain. Harass champions become instantly prefered over burst champions. Why? You are going to deal more damage, on average, with harass champions over the course of the game when compared to burst mages that kill champions instantly. Damage dealt? Junglers will reign supreme. Damage dealt to champions? ADC and APC are highly preferred. We have already talked about damage taken being a problem. Stats are correlated with success, they are far from the only thing that should be considered.

As another example, a champion that split pushes all game and has insane CS counts and lots of towers taken doesn't deserve to gain more lp if he did that at the expense of the game and his team. This is epitome of the toxic play that I am referring to. If the split pusher doesn't have an incentive to win the game because he can get the lp he needs from split pushing, he is sacrificing his teammates and their lp gains by forcing them to 4v5. How is this fair?

The idea is that what goes on behind the scenes drives a team to victory, and your lp gains are based off of that. If you are doing what you are suppose to do, for your role on your team, you will see victory. If you are capable of going 15/0 and still losing the game, then there is something fundamentally wrong with what you are doing; whether that is communicating with teammates or making mistakes of your own. Similarly, if you go 0/8 and because of your engages and sacrifices can cause your team to win, your lp shouldn't suffer from that.