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Jinx - who needs a minigun?

Elikain·10/12/2015, 7:45:39 AM·14 votes·1,508 views

Hello guys!

Already saw one Jinx thread but really didn't think i could pitch in as people were all agreeing on their opinions, couldn't find the reason why.

So, let's get this straight: Jinx's Switcheroo is the skill i want to talk about. I realize she was nerfed here once however, her AS power was shifted to a more late game oriented fashion, rather than snowballing from a few early kills, effectively suffocating the opposition if they can't catch up to her (Passive pun! Hello Phreak! :) ) Now, the problem seems to have shifted to her Fishbones as the mana drain is a problem early in the game, where you have no dmg or crit or AS to have a devastating effect, outside of a few free pokes.

Let me just bring up Fnatic vs AHQ. There was one fight where Jinx flashed into the Baron pit, only to evade any danger from being killed but still be in range to AA Fanatic that was fighting the rest of the AHQ team in the farther end of the back red buff bush, and possibly a bit further.

What's the problem: Fishbones. Specifically, Minigun vs a Rocket Launcher. Pow Pow: shorter range, AS ramp up buff. The ability should clearly telegraph that it's a better option for AAing fast. It does. Fishbones: AoE + crit, +10% AD bonus, and with base AS of 1.2+, it simply becomes a better and a safer option for dealing with people. Pow Pow becoming only a form for taking down objectives fast. It makes no sense to me that Fishbones suffers no penalty in AS, because as a Rocket Launcher should telegraph, it's a slow AA AoE damage ability. Simply letting Jinx get normal AS while using it is exactly the reason why it's overbearing. Way too safe, way too AA reliant. Basically, a Jinx player turns off his brain and clicks on people, winning fights.

Ways to fix this (Suggestions are mutually exclusive):

  • More mana per shot This way Jinx has limited shots (her mana pool) and has to worry if she will have mana for her other abilities if the fight doesn't go in her favor. Right now, she has only to worry about her early game when overusing it but later, when all this damage AS and crits come along, only a few rockets are enough.
  • AS penalty for using Fishbones -15 or -20% overall AS on lvl 5 Switcheroo immediately on switching to Fishbones, but keep the Pow Pow buff benefiting the first rocket shot. Reward her for mixing up the forms, just like now.

I'm not for dumpstering her damage but it's very clear it has to be reduced slightly as her hypercarry nature gives her the edge in every fight already. Keep in mind that these are only suggestions, not actual facts. Maybe the right direction to go with her but not numbers. Interested to hear other opinions on her overall effectiveness or any other small changes to her :)

15 Comments

Adrian Umbra10/12/2015, 3:04:57 PM6 votes

Are we not going to talk about the fact that Jinx has some of the worst AS in the game at level 18 then? Pow-pow makes up for that rather glaring weakness. Fishbones does not. Thus, she does suffer on the attack speed front when not using Pow-pow. Jinx is already meant to transition into Fishbones as her AS gets supplemented by items.

And you'll notice during that fight that AN got... what? One? Two autoattacks off behind baron wall before he was out of range? Jinx being as immobile and squishy as she is, she needs resets or amazing peel (both of which AN could get) in order to stay safe and get that amazing damage off. You'll notice the one fight where AN's peel failed, he died instantly from the same AoE that killed his support. Sivir, Lucian, Kalista, or Vayne would have almost certainly survived the experience.

So go ahead and add an AS debuff to her Fishbones, these boards will be complaining that she's an underpowered piece of trash within minutes. Gotten so tired of people complaining about whatever's working in World's.

Sire Hippington10/12/2015, 2:39:11 PM2 votes

actually, fishbones does suffer in AS, as jinx has by far the lowest base AS/AS-growth of all adc. I'd love to see crit getting eliminated from the aoe of her Q, and maybe some cd on Q, so if she just went rocket, you can jump on her without fearing the absurd minigun dps, and if jinx backs off from you while switching to minigun, you can raun away and she's stuck on low range for some time. I also think minigun could get reduced to 500range, i don't see why it should have more range than sivir, lucian or kog. It's also wierd that a minigun does more damage to buildings than a rocketlauncher...

FANTAsticOrange10/12/2015, 8:12:14 AM2 votes

I Totally Agree with your suggestions and stand on the whole "Is Jinx Op now?" topic. I posted a similar thread a yesterday about it, but this is basically what it said.

In my opinion, Jinx is in a good spot right now, but I feel like, she's a little too high reward for her risk when picked, primarily in soloqueue: not competitive. To solve this problem, my idea was that:

-Jinx's Passive is changed to Get Excited: Jinx receives massively increased Movement Speed whenever she damages an enemy champion, tower, or inhibitor that is then killed or destroyed within 3 seconds. If she is using Pow-Pow, her minigun, her next three auto attacks will also occur in the span of one attack at maximum attack speed. If she is using Fish-Bones, her next Auto Attack will deal 20% more damage and have larger cast range and explosion range.

-To compensate, Jinx's Q Switcheroo, will no longer Increase Attack Speed in Pow-Pow form, and will no longer deal 10% bonus damage in Fish-Bones form.

My idea, although it seems like a massive change, was simply to shift Jinx's power later into the game, and make her pick more risky but more rewarding. For those of you who were here from the Bilgewater Event, if you haven't recognized it yet, the Bonus from Kills in Pow-Pow form is the Passive from the Item "Typhoon Claws." Not saying this is what should be changed about Jinx, but it was my idea and it solidifies what I think needs to be altered about her playstyle.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

IcyPepper10/12/2015, 9:09:49 AM1 votes

Simply letting Jinx get normal AS while using it is exactly the reason why it's overbearing.

Er... she has one of the lowest AS growth per level (only Gnar beats her, otherwise she's tied for second to last with quite a few champions), she has below average base attack speed, and she ties for third lowest base attack speed at level 18.

While using rockets, she does not have normal attack speed. They purposely gave her low bases and scalings to make her dependent on pow pow for attack speed, and to prevent too much rocket spamming.

Granted, they could nerf rockets a bit, but she's not attacking at a normal AS with rockets.

Asayake 5150glow10/12/2015, 12:20:12 PM1 votes

I think rockets should just cost more. They aren't super good in teamfights, unless you're really ahead, because melting the carries is better than chunking everyone. Rocket's are better in 1v1's due to the superior kiting, especially with Zap! and if you have Get Excited! However, my opinion is that Jinx rocket's aren't that strong when you can be miniguning them in the face. Granted, it's free damage if you can kite, but if you can't... (aka if they have gap closer)

And... you can kite easily just by buying Furor enchantment.

And they shouldn't do bonus damage. AOE crits itself is enough.

Saianna10/12/2015, 1:57:54 PM1 votes

How to rework/balance Jinxs Q in lots of ways:

  1. Reduce AS on fishbones (mentioned by OP)

  2. Increase mana per shot (mentioned by OP)

  3. Make it like Jayces. 3-4 hits.

  4. Make rocket shots a SKILLSHOTS

  5. Fishbones overheat

  6. You cannot crit with fishbones, but each shot applies small debuffs to enemy. Or even 1% max hp

  7. Rework. Increase AOE by 3x. Remove crit, reduce AS by 100.

Solidair310/12/2015, 4:39:13 PM1 votes

What if Rocket damage scaled up to its current 110% over the course of the game, much like pow-pow AS does? Maybe it starts at 80-90% and scales up from there.

QuartzGolem10/12/2015, 8:57:26 AM1 votes

Shes super low skill level and manages to bully lane very well, the rocket launcher needs slight debuff , other than that shes ok.

Athenes Lulu10/12/2015, 9:04:18 AM1 votes

I think removing the bonus AD and lowering the overall damage is better. Instead of dealing 110% AD, Fishbones now deals 90% (or something around that) AD since it's AoE.

Wait, it doesn't have AS penalty? I thought it does because of Jinx's naturally low AS + Pow-pow AS bonus. But other than that, some kind of AS penalty would be just as great.

She would still be strong even with these nerfs.