Stealth - the rework that removed counterplay and its current state

6KEMBE4ORBA·4/14/2018, 2:41:50 PM·14 votes·4,472 views

You've all seen a Kha and maybe not so much - Akali with her **8 sec shroud **(W).

With the rework of stealth, Riot removed the counterplay options to stealth champs.

Currently there are no means to reveal stealthed champs except for one - you can play Lee and Q blindly into the map...

Good luck with that!

(sweeper + control wards do not reveal stealth)

It's kind of similar to the shielding problem - for which Riot made the new Irelia to sorta counter shields. Something, which I think, needs to be given to all champs as a strategic choice. (item?)

https://youtu.be/jVbfqhvduUQ?t=1h7m36s

In the Beyond the Rift video we have:

Qtpie - former professional player and last season ranked as 5th Challenger in NA. Cowsep - player ranked Master in the Korean server. Scarra - former professional player and high elo streamer.

They all see it as a problem which needs to be addressed. I've been on the same stance since the rework/changes went live.

What changes does Riot need to implement (or reimplement)?

  • Oracle's Elixir
  • pink wards
  • sweeper to reveal stealthed units (Qtpie's suggestion)

What other means can we think of and what would be a meanigful counterplay option in the current state of the game?

16 Comments

ViciousSummoner4/14/2018, 3:22:33 PM7 votes

item 3187 item 3185 These should've been brought into SR during the assassin update.

Tik1154/14/2018, 9:29:00 PM3 votes

Literally all they need to do is allow pink wards to reveal champs.

That's it.

Don't wanna do that? Fine give supports an item which does it

Josh Sand4/15/2018, 1:57:06 AM2 votes

If stealth was instead a shimmer or distortion effect, and you could knock champions out of stealth with AoE damage, that would be fine. There would at least be an element of risk when you tried to use your stealth to move in on an aware opponent.

Right now its just a free "first strike" button without any counterplay

Teridax684/15/2018, 2:44:42 AM2 votes

My personal issue with stealth isn't with how some of its counters got removed, but with how that happened without properly reevaluating the gameplay of invisibility champions. We're seeing a ton of threads popping up that complain about Kha'Zix and his ult stealth, for example, but what changed recently wasn't his stealth, but his damage. Because of this, I think people are focusing on the wrong issue here: the problem with Kha'Zix isn't entirely the fact that he can remain stealthed across the whole map, but that he can deal enough upfront damage to one-shot certain champions from this invisibility, effectively providing no moment throughout the very brief fight against him where his victim could outplay him.

Because of this, I think what needs to change first and foremost are problem stealth champions, before invisibility as a system. Kha'Zix is first in line, and what he needs more than anything else, imo, is to no longer be able to front-load his burst. Once he starts taking even a little bit of time to allow his opponent to react, he'd become a lot healthier to deal with, including with his invisibility. Additionally, I'd probably change Duskblade, whose innate burst has rarely ever been healthy, and whose damage tends to auto-reward stealth champions just for having invisibility, instead of providing actual gameplay.

At the end of the day, stealth is a means of shifting counterplay to a different point in a fight, so that the stealth champion can exert a measure of control at crucial moments over when and how they want to fight. What this implies is that, if a champion can essentially operate without counterplay at certain points, they should offer exceptionally effective counterplay elsewhere in a fight. This doesn't always have to be delays, but it should give whoever's on the receiving end a proper chance to react, and even fight back. To me, the problem with implementing item counters to stealth is that it's not particularly deep: once you get the itemized counter, e.g. a pink ward, sweeper, etc. back when it revealed stealth, your opponent no longer has stealth, and so loses out on a ton of power just because you spent some gold or used a cooldown. I don't like camouflage either because two of the three champions who use it can circumvent its reveal radius (Rengar's leap outranges his reveal radius, and so does Twitch's own range steroid), and in the end it still means you can get one-shot if the champion has Flash or some other gapcloser. As such, if stealth is to have counters, they should a) be available to all, without requiring players to rush a counter item or counter pick just to interact, and b) be fair for both parties. Increasing the duration of the shimmer upon taking damage, or even changing it to a full temporary reveal, for example, could be effective ways of ratting out stealth champions who got predicted by their opponents.

Muzét4/14/2018, 4:52:51 PM2 votes

Stealth = Invisibilty AND Camouflage Invisibility champ = Shaco Khazix Akali Vayne Kaisa Camouflage champ = All the others.

Odysseus2634/14/2018, 3:02:50 PM1 votes

personally i think twitch shouldn't be on the list. Buying a pink ward and roaming around with someone who has heavy cc is a simple way to negate it, i'm a twitch main btw. I can't tell you how often i get zoned ~gold 3 elo because i get revealed by a control ward and the enemy backs off or targets me since they can see me.

SexRaptor4/15/2018, 2:46:20 PM1 votes

"Something, which I think, needs to be given to all champs as a strategic choice. (item?)"

I stopped reading here because you nailed the main problem near the beginning of your post. They want champions like Irelia to counter shields and champions like... Uh... Lee sin? To counter stealth? Does his E even do that anymore?

When they should be providing the team as a whole options to counter oppressive or irritating mechanics. Pink wards or a version of dota's 'dust' item would lower stealth power and then power could be put back into those champions when their stealth is legitimately counterable.

C9 Squeeky 4/14/2018, 4:11:30 PM1 votes

If gold should be allowed to counterplay stealth, I hope they'd have to spend a decent amount of gold (more than 75g pink wards). maybe 500g or a component item of 800g or more. Not saying it should be a legendary item of 2K+ gold but not super cheap consumable either. But I guess consumables are consumable in their nature but my problem is when you can have more than 1 in your inventory.

Maybe they should just nerf the duration or how often they can stealth. Temporary Stealth is fine imo, it's their defensive mechanism/tactical, just not as high as it currently is now.

Kwattigor4/14/2018, 4:58:29 PM1 votes

the problem is those super cheap items would make the stealth champs useless they need to implement i new higher cost item with a active trhat has short duration in small area to play against it so u cant just buy something from 2 waves of minnions to completely make the champ useless or they could do something like HoTs stealth

Naramiel4/14/2018, 5:44:30 PM1 votes

Much like QSS exists as a counter to suppress, I think there should be an activatable item that lets the user (only) see invisible champs for e.g. the next 10 seconds. Just like QSS, this would be a tough choice to spend an item slot on, and just like QSS it wouldn't counter invisibility for your whole team just because one champ bought it.

Saianna4/15/2018, 8:40:13 AM1 votes

Remember that with each new anti-stealth item or a ward or trinket or consumable you are effectibely nerfing Teemo. And he already got nerfed so much that he can hardly even work right now.