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@Riot Maybe Grievous Wounds should be stacks?

crzymdscntst·9/29/2017, 9:51:36 AM·23 votes·1,279 views

Each application stacks Grievous Wounds. All items apply it together at the same duration, extended by last application. (5 seconds) Reduces healing by 5% per stack, caps at 10 stacks. (50%) DoTs/same source may only apply it once every (1/2/3?) seconds.

This punishes more passive players with heals being more effective after poke, but also engaged teamfight is when the stacks start ramping allowing healing to be counteracted.

Remove Morello's application threshold by creating a stack rather than only applying at lower health.

Now apply a stack for 5 seconds.

Applies a stack every (0.5-1?) second.

New Support item to apply Grievous Wounds. Towers now apply a stack of Grievous Wounds per hit.

Important mention: Ultimate may need balanced around stack application.

EDIT: As a note, I've probably explained some of my reasoning in the comments below rather than this post. I also as a disclaimer will note that without testing, parts of this are of course a numbers game of balance. (Stuff like "Would 5 stacks at 10% be better?")

Executioner's and Mortal Reminder are an issue of build-pathing, not GW since they are built as a choice opposite to Lord Dominik's Regards a sort of anti-tank item fulfilling a degree of the same niche.

34 Comments

Pouck9/29/2017, 1:11:08 PM3 votes

I think the idea is good, but 'Maybe, with balance/tweaks'

I play Vladimir a lot, and it is true that getting denied half my regen just because of one auto with item 3123 sometimes feels extremely punishing. Specially when getting all in.

You throw some very good ideas in how to tweak it and it could really work out in a more dynamic way that its current state.

Reduces healing by 5% per stack, caps at 10 stacks. (50%) It seems pretty reasonable to me, specially in teamfight, the stacks would climb very fast, but in lane it would be more forgiving. The stacks should last at least 5 sec though, maybe more, making GW more challenging to apply is fair, but it needs to stick for a while to compensate.

item 3165 Maybe applying 1 stack per auto/abilities But increased 2 stacks when the champion hit is below 40% health

item 3123 Apply one stack per auto Double for melee ?

item 3076 and item 3075 One stack per auto inflicted seems fair too

summoner 14 and dot Maybe 2 stacks for ignite as one stack per tick for a dot?

Again you already show some very good ideas, specially the supp items and turret (which could maybe slow the champ as well if he get it after 4-5 shots maybe, out of subject another idea, no idea if viable) I might be biased and this change could make champ like Vladimir a nightmare in lane. But as its current state GW is not interactive as you mention.

Thanks for your contribution crzymdscntst

Unreformed Shaco9/29/2017, 10:37:03 AM3 votes

Are you kidding? They need to introduce more forms of GW, not remove it.

ADCs are currently unkillable because their supports shield/heal works so well their own lifesteal.

Instead of going on some crazy mini-rework on Janna, and nerfing everyone who uses Locket, they ought just make an item that reduces shields similar to GW does to heals.

Tentacle Advisor9/29/2017, 12:55:19 PM2 votes

The only concern I've ever had with Grievous Wounds was the item 3165 's application of them. Why does the item require your opponent to be at low amounts of HP before it applies? It's not like the mages can spam spells that much (even with the 20% cdr from the item) to constantly apply it? And if they have to have that limitation, I want to know why? And how come they need the limitation, but item 3123 applies it upon any form of physical damage, without any HP limitation?

And to add on to this, why a 35% threshold? Why do mages have to wait so long to make use of the GW effect? Especially if you consider the fact that there are many, many ways for their target to survive their burst with just above that 35%HP left, given the abundance of shielding and healing prior to the GW application.

Jbels9/29/2017, 12:30:38 PM1 votes

GW needs to stay where it is, and marksmen are not the only reason. Mundo, Vlad, Akali, all of these champions with uber sustain would be absolutely broken if GW worked the way you're proposing. RIGHT AFTER this change hit live, all you would see are threads that beg for GW to be reverted. Because people take for granted how oppressive these champions are without GW.

Honestly, there need to be more sustain champions like Garen, who can't just infinitely sustain without backing off to do so. Sustain in lane should be tied to a defensive ability, not offensive ones. THAT'S where you run into balance issues.

And as for Mundo's entire kit revolving around taking damage and then healing, blame riot for an archaic kit that doesn't translate well to today's current game

Tentacle Advisor9/29/2017, 1:51:58 PM1 votes

That's a fair point to make. Was that the reason why they got rid of WotA, way-back-when? Or was it solely due to it being too good on Vlad and Swain? I ask because my next question would be that, with the way Morello and Mortal Reminder work now, is it possible to bring back sustain to mages? (ignoring, of course, item 3010 )

DuskDaUmbreon9/29/2017, 3:17:00 PM1 votes

Sounds good, but it does feel like it needs to be rebalanced from your numbers. 5%/stack is too little to be effective, especially against champions where you need to quickly apply it. Maybe 10%/stack/5stacks would be better. Or maybe have each stack cut away 10% multiplicative, and uncap it, so it ends up more like -10%/-19%/-27%/-34%/-40%/-46%.../-99%, at however many stacks that would take.

Ichi Ni San9/29/2017, 4:48:18 PM1 votes

RIOT HIRE THIS MAN

Toru Itai9/29/2017, 5:08:22 PM1 votes

people have talked about this in the past. Rito just hasn't caught on yet.

OurLestrade9/29/2017, 10:31:27 AM1 votes

Sounds good, stops heal based champions getting completely gimped just by looking at something with grievous wounds.

Asayake 5150glow9/30/2017, 2:36:04 AM1 votes

This is way too weak, and you should be able to fully stack in in about 3 seconds since that is already a long time rn. For example in 3 seconds Mundo will already have half healthed a skirmisher, yet to fully stack this would take 30 seconds.

Unless each stack lasts for like 10 seconds and is refreshed with new applications.

Xion The XIV9/29/2017, 12:09:49 PM1 votes

but does it even matter? maybe 4/10 games that Don't have a Tank that rushes Thornmail will build anything with GW. I remember playing as Mundo top lane and bought 3 Health beads. The enemy never rushed a Bramble or any GW items. So I was allowed to stay in lane until I decided I wanted more items. I was against a Garen. I out sustained a lane against garen to the point he was forced to never stay in lane. You can't really say we need to fix GW when hardly anyone buys GW.

iDarkWind9/29/2017, 12:23:34 PM1 votes

To be honest, Riot should just intrudoce a item like: "x% of the damage ignores the bonus health from shields". Even tough Heals are also strong atm, I think shields are the biggest problem so far. Sometimes even when ahead as an Assasin I feel useless because at some point in the game the enemy support will eventually get locket, knight's bow and stuff like that. And if they're Janna or Lulu it feels like just their shields plus Locket ignores my full combo as an Assasin. If there was an item that would make x amount of your damage ignore shields, it would be quite nice, since it wouldn't make shields so oppresive.