as a zyra main with 924 zyra-rankeds

Daniy··95 votes·7,062 views

Hello community , i would like to discuss about zyra , she has been my main champion since release now , and i just love that champion . The concept , the kit , and the theme. but i think she could need some little adjustments concerning her balance. First of all , i play her almost only in mid lane and rarely as support . what surprised me is , that zyra was nerfed many times , because the balance team thought she is too strong as a support ( that may be right , she was picked all the time at lcs at that time(im speaking of the later nerfs, not the hotfix)) , but they said , her balance in mid lane is "okay". the only thing that she got back for all her significant nerfs is a 0,05% AP ratio on her Q . now , the surprising thing is , she was designed as a mid lane mage , and was nerfed becaue she was not played in mid lane , but support . actually , she is now classified as a support as it seems ( the client suggests to buy support items like spellthief and sightstone , although she is designed as a mid lane mage). if you look at lolking , you can see that she is played as support mainly. in most of her matches , people buy a sightstone. Now to her abillities

Base stats: Her health is very low , which is normal for a ranged mage. but its still lower than most mages. for example: Zyra=355+74 ,Orianna=385+79, Syndra=380+78. Her movementspeed... its the lowest possible , in addition , she has no speedboost,dash or blink. shes very squishy and easy to catch. Her CC should help her with surviving , but thats very hard since most off the champions that are now played have a gap-closer , dash , blink or whatever.

PASSIVE: Her passive is very clunky , the speed and width nerfs were really significant , also the damage is pretty low ( for example , it deals 440 true damage at lvl 18 , kog maws passive deals 550 true dmg). it takes 2 entire seconds before you can shoot .Though , its not useless. when i play zyra , i get some kills with it sometimes (mostly because the people forget her passive , since shes played so rarely (most of the times they write it in the all chat too x) )) .

Q: the mana cost on Q is quite high , especially at lvl 1. for example , syndra Q costs only 40 mana at lvl one , and 80 at lvl 5. it deals 253+0.69 AP to champions , and 230+60AP if the target is not a champion. Zyras Q costs 75 at 1 , and 95 at 5. it deals 210+0.65AP constantly at lvl 5. also , it has a longer cooldown than syndra Q. (thats hard to compare though , syndra needs her Qs for her ultimate , but zyra does need it for her plants)

W: W grants 2% cooldownreduction on each lvl. her plants actually deal decent damage if you can manage to keep them alive. the problem is that mostly the ranged plants react very oddly. if you spawn them , they do not attack for around 2-3 seconds , and after that they start to shoot. also , plants die veery fast in teamfights , they mostly die in under one second . but if they dont , they are able to deal a lot of damage with her ult-buff. also the slow on her meele plants is awesome. i think there should be some adjustment that helps plants to not die in an eyeblink in teamfights. what i find random about her plant design is , that they are not able to attack towers , why? why not even reduced damage ? they always die with one towerhit. f.e , heimer turrets , shaco boxes , annies tibbers , they can all attack towers

E: the damage of E is 200+50% ap. it is also the slowest "snare-skillshot" (morgana and lux Q fly faster). but i think thats legit , since her E can pass minions and champions. the snare duration is almost not there at lvl 1 (0,75 seconds , always + 0,25 seconds with each level , up to 1,75 seconds) what i have noticed is , that i can not "fullcombo" a mobile champion if i land my snare , until i am lvl 10 , because the snare duration is just too low , and people like zed jump out of the snare , before the damage of her ult and Q comes off.

R: Her R is a mighty abillity. but it feels veeery clunky too. the damage at the "spawnpoint" is >almost< instant , like annies R , but it expands rather slow , so the damage at the end of the ultimate comes off with a huge delay, just like the CC. the damage is 300+70% at lvl 3 , which is the same damage as orianna ultimate , but oriannas ultimate-damage has only a short delay ( the cast animation), and the CC of that skill is instant , not like zyras R.

in conclusion (TL;DR) : i think her damage is pretty decent , sure , champions like leblanc deal tons more , but zyras damage is mostly AOE and has CC in it. her base stats are very low , her movement is shit , her skills are clunky ,her plants behave dump and oddly, because of that i think she could receive some adjumstments.

(what i find worth to mention is , that shyvana and even jax received buffs , did they really need them more than other champions do? was that necessary?)

(also, english is not my main language ,and that was my first forum post, please excuse the mistakes)

109 Comments

Ser Garland29 votes

All the this. I'm hoping for Zyra buffs in the future as I play her exclusively mid too.

A Miss Fortune6 votes

I also play her mid as well (I've played a few support games with friends.). Zyra needs a buff or two and would be great, but Riot obviously forgot she even exists after gutting her.

LICENSED HOOKER2 votes

aslong as shes not in the bot lane, Thresh _-

Ignis021 votes

There are many champs who are extremely under played and faced many of the same hardships as Zyra. Rito won't do shit about those champs because A). they ain't popular and B). they aren't one of the signature champs or whatever you call them like Garen, Teemo, and Kat.

I would like to see these changes though. Rito needs to focus on other champs.

Krucho1 votes

Popular champions are overpowered champions, if you nerf op champs you undirectly buffs all others, and im not sure what you are on about because Teemo and Garen are perfect examples of "signature" champions that never got their kit improved even 6 years after and are pretty damm far from being popular.

Pastramka1 votes

They care how dynamic playing a champion looks when you spectate matches.

And Zyra dosen't have an R that takes her half the map in the middle of a team fight that she just barely gotten alive from and stuns the whole enemy team while regaining half HP bar.

Her plays doesn't look like they are from an action movie.

Champions that never get significant nerfs; their spells make **them **go : woosh! woosh! clank! BOOOM!

http://www.animateit.net/data/media/august2009/ESCAPE.gif - they want that to be seen in LCS.

They don't want a mage standing still far away going:_ Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!_

Only Xerath can make " _ Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! _ " spells look good :D.

And the tanks... The tougher they are the longer the sick team fight lasts.

LCS : http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aE7zem1k89g/maxresdefault.jpg

VDc0zCqe0w16 votes

really good post, +1

hopefully Riot will start actually giving a damn about Zyra after 2 years of absolutely no changes

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

really good post, +1

hopefully Riot will start actually giving a damn about Zyra after 2 years of absolutely no changes

Not gonna happen.

MarhsallLee6714 votes

(also, english is not my main language ,and that was my first forum post, please excuse the mistakes)

Trust me when I say that your grammar is better than 90% of the people who use the internet. From reading your post up to this point, I would've thought English to be your first language.

On top of that, you made some really good points. :)

Daniy7 votes

thank you very much ^-^ , good to see people share my opinion.

Hupsis9 votes

I'd like her plants to get better AI. But I don't want her to get any more damage, that's for sure.

Passive is s**t. Has always been. The concept of it I mean. Would love if it got completely replaced by something more fitting and something that enhances her gameplay.

Her movement speed is low, yes. And I'm sure there are reasons for it such as:

  • aoe damage
  • burst damage
  • dps damage
  • cc abilities
  • zoning potential
Daniy3 votes

True , her damage is fine how it is i guess. but the points dps damage , and "partly" zoningpotential are countered by the fact that her plants die so fast. for example , 3 autohits , or one single-targer spell and an autohit are enough to kill them immediately. (there are abillities like nasus/renekton ult , rumble flames/ult , the sipin of garen , nasus E etc. Pretty much every abillity that deals damage more times than one in a short period kills them in under one second) but its true , against certain champions like cho gath , the zoningpotential is there , though cho gath heals back all the damage anyways, lol. i dont find her passive useless or complete shit , i wouldn`t mind something else that helps her gameplay , but i think its not a bad concept , just very clunky , slow , and not that great at all in ingame. about the movement speed , i think the only mage in the game that is as slow as zyra is anivia. every other mage has more MS (lux,syndra,malzahar,) , or a MS buff/escape (orianna,lissandra) lissandra even shares some similarities with zyras kit.

LankPants4 votes

Her movement speed is low, yes. And I'm sure there are reasons for it such as:

  • aoe damage
  • burst damage
  • dps damage
  • cc abilities
  • zoning potential

Azir , has all of those things as well as a dash and higher base MS.

iLuma8 votes

^ this.

originary916 votes

Gutt annie buff Zyra. Problem solved.

A Miss Fortune10 votes

I think you should work for Riot.

LankPants3 votes

I just love the fact you have a Tibbers icon.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

Gutt annie buff Zyra. Problem solved.

Buff annie gut kalista.

Lugg4 votes

Good post.

I hate any passive where you have to die to use it. WTF is that? If you are required to die to use it, while others have theirs all the time, it should do massive damage.

The biggest problem I see with Zyra is the targeting of her plants. It is REALLY bad. I also agree that they should definitely target towers.

I don't think her ult needs any adjustments. I honestly think it's one of the best in the game.

Slushi Simcambi2 votes

{quoted}

Good post.

I hate any passive where you have to die to use it. WTF is that? If you are required to die to use it, while others have theirs all the time, it should do massive damage.

The biggest problem I see with Zyra is the targeting of her plants. It is REALLY bad. I also agree that they should definitely target towers.

I don't think her ult needs any adjustments. I honestly think it's one of the best in the game.

I totally agree with you on death passives!

If I'm ahead as a champion the last thing I want to do is die and give away my spree gold. I'd much rather have a passive that benefits me during my lifetime. Plus with a passive as clunky as Zyra's it isn't even that useful if you die in the first place....

Auryiel4 votes

Her plant's HP needs to scale with AP Like +1 HP per 150/200 AP

It would make her much stronger mid where she builds way more AP then as a support

Also fix her plant AI, sometimes it's just plain shit

I also wish she had an entirely different passive, but that's for another discussion x)

If I had the chance to work on her, I'd rework her heavily and buff the shit put of her plants at the cost of her burst and make her feel like she infests a whole area with her plants. It would be fun to spawn a death thicket at your enemy's feet ^_^

I Miss Cannon1 votes

Her plants do extreme amounts of damage and i also can't see what's wrong with their AI. You can even use them to block skillshots like Thresh Hook, Morgana Bind, etc. Her hard CC also makes sure they don't die in 1 second and even then, the enemy can't really focus them, you still got your spamable Q. I don't think Zyra needs buffs at all, she's possibly the champion with the best sustained AND burst AoE Damage in the game. One root and you're basically dead if you get hit. If they buff her chances are she'll get out of control again.

360D3GR3SS3 votes

She has weird burst potential even though her numbers are low. If they were going to change her they would need to do a kit overhaul IMO. I do agree she needs changes but I think she needs reblancing, as in moving around her strengths a bit. Her range SHOULD NOT make her that squishy and immobile.

Saianna2 votes

I'd like that melee plants had totally different animations/colours than ranged ones. Just for the sake of clarity.

Also any kind of buff for Zyra is welcomed :D

TendajiX2 votes

All i care about is her passive. 2 second delay for a slow ass missle really easily dodged by anyone with mobility, boots, or anyone who remembers you have it. The damage is decent but it is too hard to land for such a low reward.

Drunk Rummate2 votes

I think her passive could use a change, and maybe tweak the CDR on her W so that you aren't always ending with 35% which is just hard to reach 40% from efficiently.

Outside of that I don't really like the argument that she's designed as a mid lane mage. It really doesn't matter what their initial intentions were, what matters is how the kit plays out. Blitzcrank was designed to be a tanky solo laner. Morgana was designed as a solo laner. Annie was designed as a solo laner. Look at where they go now.

Daniy4 votes

thats true , but my problem with that is , that they nerfed her only because of that reason , gave her nothing back (well , 0,05 scalio on Q , you need 650 AP to reach the same damage that you would have dealt before the nerf , so , very helpful as AP mid) , and now they even see her as a support , thats kinda ironic. first nerfing her because of the "missposition-play" , and then leave her there. meaning , when she would have been played mid , and not support in soloQ and in lcs , she would have probably not received nerfs.

edit: with annie , they reduced her base damages and made her skalios higher , (about a nice amount , if you compare it with the 0,05%). so they are trying to get her back to the designed role , but with zyra they just ont care as it seems. i think that would have been a good solution for zyra too , instead they nerfed her entire kit.

Skiddo2 votes

I totally agree. I absolutley love Zyra, and I think her damage (considering it's a lot of AoE) is in a pretty good spot, but she is fairly unreliable and clunky to play (thank you for mentioning the ult, that's always bugged me). You made a lot of great points here and I really hope riot can doing something with her soon. P.S., Your english is really great, and your champion balance analysis was pretty impressive!

U Just Got Slain2 votes

They're just too scared to buff her because she was once a monster, but it has been too long :(.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=U Just Got Slain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GxnnwdhR,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-07-01T20:50:15.737+0000)

They're just too scared to buff her because she was once a monster, but it has been too long :(.

You mean on release?

By that logic they would be afraid of buffing half of the roster.

Dengeden2 votes

I don't play Zyra as much, mostly because people don't like her but also because rushing Luden's Echo seems to be the only way to play her. That said, she's a lot of fun and I hope she doesn't get reworked. Buffs would be nice but not necessary. I run really defensive runes to make up for her squishiness and questionable scaling but I'm fine with that.

Onto her abilities: Her passive also procs spell effects like Liandry's, Luden's, Rylai's and Morrello's (and that's it). It's wide and fast enough to be fairly reliable. Kog'maw's got it knocked otherwise.

Her Q might have a bigger mana cost than most (and then there's Lux) but it's also the only spell she will consistently use in lane. Once you get used to the range (and synchronizing it with W), I'd say it's en par with most AoE poke spells. Mana shouldn't be much of an issue for her (if you can CS with AAs) unless she's facing ye old Yasuo/Zed.

Her E is too unreliable for me to max second. I usually save it for when somebody tries to engage on me. If you want to play Zyra as a standard burst mage, get Morrellos/Athene's, max this second and use it to clear waves (if all else fails). I've never tried it because I am hipster like that I don't see why I'd play Zyra if wanted to burst combo people.

Her ult is honestly the perfect addition to her kit. You can use to finish or initiate your burst combo. However, I recommend using the ult to run away and "kite". The risk of enemies dashing/flashing out of your combo is very high and you have little to offer after that.

Her W, oh boy, her W ... this ability both makes and breaks her. Just the fact that it's a vision tool that has a better range than sightstone is a huge bonus for me. But (!) the low base damage makes D-cap kind of inefficient until later in the game (and magic pen preferable). Luckily, the plants proc spell effects which is a great way to make up for their lack of burst (by adding burst). It means she's one of the few AP (mana) mids that can get Haunting Guise (early) (and eventually Liandry's) and Rylai's. This is also a nice way to make up for her base stats. I'm ambivalent about her passive CDR. With a standard mage build she gets 20% CDR from items, 10% from her passive, 0-5% from masteries aaand 15% from blue (makes 45-50%). Great, redundant CDR. It's partly why I forego the CDR-Mana items and take CDR from runes instead (and double to triple doran's). Its range and low CD also makes her plants a great way to zone people at any point in the game. Last but not least her plants will never die to one ability or AA from an enemy champion. It makes it very difficult to ignore them, as you need to waste both an ability and an AA to kill them (under normal circumstances). If her plants were quicker to attack (it's not like they're completely inept), I'm almost afraid she would be too strong. It'd effectively be a targeted ability with unparalleled range (in terms of non-ultimates).

TL;DR She's can be an unconventional mage due to weird scaling. Magic pen and spell effects are very useful for her plants. Her kit enables her to zone from afar and keep enemies off her back. The standard medium-long range mage build/play style also works on her (to an extent) even if I wouldn't recommend it. You need to time and hit everything perfectly and it doesn't efficiently scale with her W. All of her abilities are in an OK spot: Her Q is a standard poke spell. Her plants/seeds have their problems but offer unique damage and utility. Maxing E second isn't very reliable but doable (imo). It's a good way to stop engages on you either way. Her ult rounds off her kit nicely by adding more disengage with both damage and CC.

kunkudunk2 votes

I would like it if her plants would just attack correctly, no waiting and no randomly changing targets when I didn't auto attack something else.

Krucho2 votes

Her passive is a bit shitty like all "after death" passives it is just something that you never get to use in a perfect game, so effectively it is something you never **want **to use.

However I like the power of her kit and spell combos, they just need to fix the plant AI because yea it gets really pathetic sometimes.

But for a teamfight mage like Zyra to be decent nowadays she needs a little something more: it could be some insane range (Xerath) or some mobility (Azir). For her mobility problem, I was thinking of giving her W the possibility to create a tunnel (like Bard's journey) by putting 2 seeds close to a wall. Would be pretty damm cool at least.

Stellafreyja2 votes

She really does need a slight rework (and texture update...). I've always liked the idea of her being able to dash to her plants. It gives you mobility either for an escape (by casting over a wall) or an engage. Her Passive should definitely be changed. Her current passive would be nice if it was a passive on her ult, but I feel like that's too much.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

That's a good idea to combat her low MS, since people think giving her a MS buff will make her more op with her spells, so a dash with her still slow speed is a great way to add a little oompth to her.

Aèrith2 votes

I really do hope a Red stops by to give some input. I used to really enjoy her mid (after the hotfix, because she was straight up broken when she came out lol). Even though they probably won't fix all the issues with her, if I could pick 2 things to buff it would be the plant AI and to reverse the travel speed nerf on E. Her E was never a problem in mid lane, people complained about it in bot lane. I feel like it would be okay to restore it back to it's original state since we've all gotten enough dodgeball practice with these two. Blitzcrank Thresh

Pastramka2 votes

@Riot, get in here, discuss with us please how strategically diverse Zyra is.

GankLord1 votes

{quoted}

Hello community , i would like to discuss about zyra , she has been my main champion since release now , and i just love that champion . The concept , the kit , and the theme. but i think she could need some little adjustments concerning her balance. First of all , i play her almost only in mid lane and rarely as support . what surprised me is , that zyra was nerfed many times , because the balance team thought she is too strong as a support ( that may be right , she was picked all the time at lcs at that time(im speaking of the later nerfs, not the hotfix)) , but they said , her balance in mid lane is "okay". the only thing that she got back for all her significant nerfs is a 0,05% AP ratio on her Q . now , the surprising thing is , she was designed as a mid lane mage , and was nerfed becaue she was not played in mid lane , but support . actually , she is now classified as a support as it seems ( the client suggests to buy support items like spellthief and sightstone , although she is designed as a mid lane mage). if you look at lolking , you can see that she is played as support mainly. in most of her matches , people buy a sightstone. Now to her abillities

Base stats: Her health is very low , which is normal for a ranged mage. but its still lower than most mages. for example: Zyra=355+74 ,Orianna=385+79, Syndra=380+78. Her movementspeed... its the lowest possible , in addition , she has no speedboost,dash or blink. shes very squishy and easy to catch. Her CC should help her with surviving , but thats very hard since most off the champions that are now played have a gap-closer , dash , blink or whatever.

PASSIVE: Her passive is very clunky , the speed and width nerfs were really significant , also the damage is pretty low ( for example , it deals 440 true damage at lvl 18 , kog maws passive deals 550 true dmg). it takes 2 entire seconds before you can shoot .Though , its not useless. when i play zyra , i get some kills with it sometimes (mostly because the people forget her passive , since shes played so rarely (most of the times they write it in the all chat too x) )) .

Q: the mana cost on Q is quite high , especially at lvl 1. for example , syndra Q costs only 40 mana at lvl one , and 80 at lvl 5. it deals 253+0.69 AP to champions , and 230+60AP if the target is not a champion. Zyras Q costs 75 at 1 , and 95 at 5. it deals 210+0.65AP constantly at lvl 5. also , it has a longer cooldown than syndra Q. (thats hard to compare though , syndra needs her Qs for her ultimate , but zyra does need it for her plants)

W: W grants 2% cooldownreduction on each lvl. her plants actually deal decent damage if you can manage to keep them alive. the problem is that mostly the ranged plants react very oddly. if you spawn them , they do not attack for around 2-3 seconds , and after that they start to shoot. also , plants die veery fast in teamfights , they mostly die in under one second . but if they dont , they are able to deal a lot of damage with her ult-buff. also the slow on her meele plants is awesome. i think there should be some adjustment that helps plants to not die in an eyeblink in teamfights. what i find random about her plant design is , that they are not able to attack towers , why? why not even reduced damage ? they always die with one towerhit. f.e , heimer turrets , shaco boxes , annies tibbers , they can all attack towers

E: the damage of E is 200+50% ap. it is also the slowest "snare-skillshot" (morgana and lux Q fly faster). but i think thats legit , since her E can pass minions and champions. the snare duration is almost not there at lvl 1 (0,75 seconds , always + 0,25 seconds with each level , up to 1,75 seconds) what i have noticed is , that i can not "fullcombo" a mobile champion if i land my snare , until i am lvl 10 , because the snare duration is just too low , and people like zed jump out of the snare , before the damage of her ult and Q comes off.

R: Her R is a mighty abillity. but it feels veeery clunky too. the damage at the "spawnpoint" is >almost< instant , like annies R , but it expands rather slow , so the damage at the end of the ultimate comes off with a huge delay, just like the CC. the damage is 300+70% at lvl 3 , which is the same damage as orianna ultimate , but oriannas ultimate-damage has only a short delay ( the cast animation), and the CC of that skill is instant , not like zyras R.

in conclusion (TL;DR) : i think her damage is pretty decent , sure , champions like leblanc deal tons more , but zyras damage is mostly AOE and has CC in it. her base stats are very low , her movement is shit , her skills are clunky ,her plants behave dump and oddly, because of that i think she could receive some adjumstments.

(what i find worth to mention is , that shyvana and even jax received buffs , did they really need them more than other champions do? was that necessary?)

(also, english is not my main language ,and that was my first forum post, please excuse the mistakes)

As a zyra mid main all of the this however at the same time all of the not this and this is the reason. I'm scared for Riot to touch Zyra again she got some pretty hard nerfs and I'm afraid if they pay attention to her they'll nerf her into oblivion she's still viable mid not as strong as she once was but still viable. I want buffs for her because all you said is true but knowing Riot they might just do what I have nightmares about and nerf her so that she is truly a support.

EvilRabbitt3 votes

Hey, I resent that condescension :(Nami

Angry Monster1 votes

Riot no longer believes in roll placement while in (minus bot lane champs) and buffs/nerfs.

Proof of this is the last few champs released. Riot did not have a clue where Ekko was going to end up even though they did tons of mid gameplay vids for him. Where is he mostly ending up, why the top lane/jungle. Changed naut kit numbers around and claimed he would be still be a jungler, well he is not and being nerfed cause of the support roll(check PBE). Khazix been nerfed from 3 different roles cause he was over nerfed/rebalenced and had to move cause of new play style being forced on the champ. Elise, enough said.

When it comes to champ balance the players have to over come what riot does to the champs. Very rarely does anything work out the way riot foresees and tends to back fire Ryze, Yassou, lucain, cass, kayle, moakai, nid, shy, skaner, zil, oalf, everyone from the above, and others.

Uiru2 votes

Role.

Tell your friends.

The Ellimiist1 votes

It's pretty simple really. If you have too much utility you're going to be good as a support. Zyra has tons of utility, especially in zoning. If you have massive scaling your good as a mid.

So what can they nerf more easily, her utility or her damage. Also which lane needs champs more.

Sadly as you probably notice it's very hard to have a champ that is totally viable in both roles and not op in one of them (zyra/morg being slightly op as support and kinda weak mid.)

Anyways point is I don't see them buffing zyra just to make her more viable mid since obviously that will make her op in a support role again. Having your "main" switch around in what roles they are played is part of the risk you take when you decide to play only 1 champ.

SnugglePuggle942 votes

Morg isn't a weak mid. I take her mid all the time and wreck a lot of considered "op" champs.

kJs1 votes

Why isn't she played often? I'm just curious. Does she do well against all the mobility mid often has?

MudintheWater1 votes

I main Morg mid, and in team builder almost always win lane and do well. In ranked, I almost exclusively play her support. Why? Because she fits both roles and oven if you're first pick there will be a dingbat below you who will pick a mid laner and tell you to go support because they think they are good and know you can support with her. And then they feed and it's frustrating as hell being stuck in support with a bad ADC rather than laning.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I know exactly what you are saying. That's why I play Morg mid in team builder, because in draft or blind people will think I'm going support.

The Ellimiist1 votes

Doesn't mean she isn't slightly weak atm in mid =/

I mean I won mid other day as blitzcrank >.>

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ellimiist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GxnnwdhR,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2015-07-02T04:28:48.147+0000)

It's pretty simple really. If you have too much utility you're going to be good as a support. Zyra has tons of utility, especially in zoning. If you have massive scaling your good as a mid.

So what can they nerf more easily, her utility or her damage. Also which lane needs champs more.

Sadly as you probably notice it's very hard to have a champ that is totally viable in both roles and not op in one of them (zyra/morg being slightly op as support and kinda weak mid.)

Anyways point is I don't see them buffing zyra just to make her more viable mid since obviously that will make her op in a support role again. Having your "main" switch around in what roles they are played is part of the risk you take when you decide to play only 1 champ.

You see this guy mains zyra mid,I used to main support zyra since s2,she needs some(though "some" wouldn't be my word of choice) help as well.

I'm not sure why you are so afraid of buffing a skillshot based champions with 2% pickrate,worst case if they do manage to overbuff her(good luck with that in this all in bot lane meta) then people will remember she exists and after they undo some of the overbuffing you will have more variety.

If I were you I'd be more afraid of things like ryze/fizz/yasuo/ahri buffs,all of which got some rather recently.

Byakuya Kuchiki1 votes

fuck you gut her so she does nothing.

-salty vayne main that gets beat by every zyra "support"

SnugglePuggle941 votes

Maybe you should learn to play against her rather than being offensive like that

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