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Riot doesn't care about what you think about Game Balance

vIbvdOwbko·2/22/2015, 2:45:00 AM·48 votes·5,684 views

EDIT: This is exactly what I'm saying. You can't go a couple posts on these boards without people bringing up Lee Sin again. I'm going to be honest here, Lee Sin isn't as big a problem as he was. I don't know how hard he's crushing things in bronze/silver/gold/idk but he's not worth being discussed this often.

When people see "Gameplay and Balance", they assume that it's a place to go and talk about game balance, like the name insinuates. However, this isn't the entire case.

This section is basically "the Place People Come to Cry About Game Imbalance." There's no point in posting here unless you just want to bolster each other's beliefs that some champions are just completely unbeatable and that Riot's balance team undoubtedly consists of 7 disabled monkeys because they're so bad at their job.

Really though, Riot doesn't care at all about your insight on game balance. They have an entire team of people dedicated to adjusting the game and studying the game to see how they should handle things. Some things they do aren't the best choice of action, but they don't care. They're not going to seriously take the opinion from some random person on their forums that has some people agreeing with them.

I'm not saying that all of you are dumb. Most of you say some things that are pretty stupid but some of you make good suggestions and start reasonable discussion. But Riot doesn't care and this is just the place they created so people can vent their anger about a champion so they don't have to hear it.

I mean, it's obvious from just a glance that the people here strictly believe that Lee Sin is insanely broken and is impossible to beat but you guys haven't changed anything by making a 1000 threads about this champion, so just quit it. I've been here three days and already I believe 95% of you don't even have the game knowledge to contribute anything meaningful to any kind of discussion. It's not even surprising that Riot tends to avoid and ignore this section of the boards.

53 Comments

GloriousKaiser2/22/2015, 2:55:23 AM23 votes

More than that, I think this was the place of hope where people thought that Riot was offering them a place where they could talk with them. But that hope shattered a long time ago.

LankPants2/22/2015, 3:13:43 AM9 votes

I was with you right up until you said to quit it.

If someone refuses to listen and you truly believe your point is important then all you can do is try to rally like minded people and hope that after you kick up enough noise someone will hear you.

Besides Riot claims to pride itself on listening to its community.

WooBeeWoo2/22/2015, 3:33:28 AM5 votes

Honestly tho.... balance right now is fucking terrible and Riot has made some seriously horrendous balance and gameplay decisions some of which make the game seriously not worth playing. I used to play this game daily for over two years. but now.... I might play one game a few times a week and I've abandoned ranked because the game isn't allowing for most champions to be even decent in the meta. Its destroying the game health and its frustrating for people that really used to enjoy the game

Terff2/22/2015, 3:47:53 AM4 votes

Nah this is more like a misc section, everyone posts random shit here that isn't even related to gameplay OR balance because this is one of the most populated boards.

UnluckyWizz2/22/2015, 3:43:24 AM3 votes

I think this all the time, but don't bother to say anything because they would just deny it -__-

Sailor Mint2/22/2015, 3:27:42 AM3 votes

Just because 90% of all feedback is "bad" doesn't mean the forums are useless.

When many people cry about something it can sometimes point towards a genuine issue.

SEKAI2/22/2015, 4:31:01 AM3 votes

To be perfectly honest, the history strongly suggests that either there is simply no balance team or they really are a bunch of monkeys in the office room.

If they don't care about what's our say on the balance, why have the "Gameplay & Balance" board tag in the first place, to hear positive praise only? Don't you think that's counter intuitive?

So in the end, you simply made this thread to defend Lee Sin? I am no resident in NA board, granted, but every single time when someone brings up some beliefs about Lee Sin and made it to the Hot topic section, you'll always be there.

you guys haven't changed anything by making a 1000 threads about this champion

Because we simply can't? We can only hope Riot is actually aware that he has been dominating the game for nearly as long as this game's current age and they really don't see a problem with him? If today let's say Olaf or Urgot is dominating the pro scene, where do you think they will end up? Why not have consistency on what you do Riot?

Feedbacks are meant to be heard, and they even provide us with the space to do so, if you're simply suggesting that we should all quit with the negative feedbacks because we're already unhappy about it for years then I am sorry, you're simply delusional.

Magic Mo2/22/2015, 3:57:42 AM3 votes

funny thing, because after all that bitching, Lee sin has been nerfed several times and people still continue because apparently Lee Sin's ability to kick back an immobile ADC is unfair while a million other champions that can do the same thing aren't unfair. /GDlogic

Like really, what do you retards think is even OP about Lee Sin? Absolutely fucking nothing. There is NOTHING he does that somebody else can't do better, which is why he needs so much to even be able to function.

bureburebure2/22/2015, 8:49:09 AM2 votes

Thing is, you would think Riot would be able to come up with better solutions and decisions than most of the playerbase but a lot of their designs and balance changes over the last few months seem to be shooting themselves in the foot.

Despite them wanting to avoid power creep a good amount of champions coming out have completely overloaded kits, and mobility has become such a recurring concept in champ kits that most immobile champs have been left in the dust.

i feel like their business model also only really works in the short term...there's so many champions out now that it takes forever for them to get to certain ones who need attention very badly, and even when they decide to make changes some of them show a poor understanding of what the champion needs (i.e mordekaiser, the numbers don't matter because he still gets kited ridiculously easy and has little to no utility). i feel for them to a certain extent but i think there is a lot of people dismissing valid arguments and thoughtful feedback in a really pretentious manner under the assumption that the people making them are bronze scrubs or just buttmad.

Junkο2/22/2015, 8:47:01 AM2 votes

Lee Sin isn't complained about because he is overpowered. He is complained about because he is the only factor that determines a viable jungler, FOR 4 YEARS. Can't keep up with Lee Sin? You can't jungle. Let's not forget all the free stats he has for absolutely no reason, and 600 +200% scaling on a point and click ability, he has 2 gapclosers so the argument that he has to go into melee range isn't valid.

Solaxo2/22/2015, 11:53:46 AM2 votes

Funny, they used to care around season 1 and 2 and game was much more balanced....

JustMyBassCannon2/23/2015, 1:15:34 AM2 votes

{quoted}

This section is basically "the Place People Come to Cry About Game Imbalance."

Funny thing, that's what the old Champion Feedback and Item Discussion sections were. You had one good thread for every dozen or so where someone suggested something retarded, complained about something that wasn't really a problem, or bemoaned the loss of something that was a problem.

And, so long as we still receive that steady stream of bitching about Lee Sin (and whatever is meta-relevant), Riot really will not take most of what's said in this section seriously. They're a lot more interactive with this section than they were with the old forums, but they're taking about as much of the forum input as they did in the past. There's a thing here and there that they take seriously for every multiple-thousand threads that they either ignore or personally say "No" or "Good idea, wrong direction" or something along those lines.

You're also probably right on the 95% of forum members being unable to contribute to an actual discussion. They hang on buzzwords that Riot used in one patch or another video. They complain about something instead of learning to play against it. They see Riot put something on the PBE, then Riot removes it because it didn't do what they wanted, and the players use the most vitriolic things they can say against Riot for deciding the change was going to be a bad idea. They complain if Riot buffs something. They complain if Riot nerfs something. They complain if Riot changes something. They complain if Riot changes nothing.

It's so rare to find someone who can actually discuss something rationally...

GloriousKaiser2/22/2015, 4:09:18 AM1 votes

I think Riot is waiting out this storm until the next patch comes through. They'll have a Reddit AMA, where they won't need to worry since the changes are already through and Reddit likes to kiss up to Riot (OR SO I'VE HEARD).

GoldenVequalsgg7/4/2016, 7:41:39 AM1 votes

WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH THIS GUY PLZ:Lucian. I not only say to nerf him, i demand to nerf into the ground like u did to yi without any reason whatsoever.Is that fare? Riot your only measure balance is only around zed and adcs and what pros say(specifically the last one). U have completely forgot about solo quaue players. Ooooh did u forget? I THINK THAT THEY ARE THOSE THAT THEY ARE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN LOL AND IF U DON'T LISTEN THEM, NEVER ALMOST LIKE U DO, THEY WILL STOP PLAYING YOUR GAME AND THEN U WILL CLOSE AS A COMPLANY, WHICH IS HAPPENING OF COURSE. SO PLZ CONSETRATE AND MAKE THE GAME MORE FUN FOR PLAYERS AND NOT COMPETITIVE FOR FAKER AND DYRUS IN ORDER TO MAKE MORE MONEY, BECAUSE WE ARE, THE PLAYERS, WHO DECIDE THE ENTIRE GAME WITH OUR ACTIONS AND IF WE STOP TO PLAY YOUR GAME THEN IT'S GG. I'm not saying that u should do everything that any bronze kid says out there, but plz at least do what the players, the average players say. For example like WTF why u should remove devourer. First some junglers, the majority of them out there they don't have so much strong hard cc, compare to some others or strong early game due to overloaded kits(lee sin, elise, nidalee e.t.c.), so they need to farm and scale up and giving them this opportunity to stack up and become more effective in the late game was a huge advantage of them and if they fully stack( combined with the old guinsoo's which was also badly changed) they could counter the entire game and hey they maybe,in duels, were pretty frostreighting to play against, but they had a lot of punishments and balanced weaknesses like they were easily kidded and they were weak against hard cc and you could destroy them early game if they were about to get invaded and get rekt in team-fights by tanks building attack speed reduction and having a lot of resistances(sion, maokai,maplhite(attack speed slow with his e) e.t.c.) or by exhaust. Giving them right now this useless extremely high cost not 8 stacks not aoe dmg, guinsoo's plus the bloodrazor where honestly it deals, even with a minimum dmg to monsters, more dmg to them rathen than onto tanky champions, and because of that they have been all melee devourer junglers(except ww and volibear and kindred) completely unplayable and if not unplayable their win rate taunted down by 8-9% like master yi's win rate( 50%-52% down to 42.5% or so...). Yes feral flare was broken but devourer wasn't the same :(. I'm really unhappy about lol now and after my favourite junglers got destroyed well sry for that where i'm going to say, but fuck u riot. Yes u fucked up. U are not so good at ideas anymore(Taliyah, the new champ) or at balancing the game as u used to be 3 years ago and this is why the half of the percentage of your players in league have abandoned the game(and i will), cause you care only about faker and dyrus and high rank players and not about me, the average players and a starter to lol, u don't even give the opportunity to people to entry lol with extremely high costs to rounes, having to level up to play jungle and all that staff...

Remove bloodrazor and add again devourer and rework guinsoo's but to its old state. Not now. After years cause i know that u cannot add again something old back again fast and remove something new faster before it creates gameplay dynamics. But come on only kindred and ww use this, this is not balance and even after u buff yi he's still underplayed, at least on the jungle.

Plz i'm not saying that u must do whatever someone like me says, but keep at least opinion in your mind.

Aaa and also don't u think that patch 6.9 changes were good for the average players. First they were difficult to understand and not impact full to improve anything(example supports, still thresh really weak buff him more).

Fasmodey2/22/2015, 1:02:39 PM1 votes

They sometimes do, but what they do is more like what they want.

Superdum2/22/2015, 1:35:26 PM1 votes

Most of the threads about gameplay and balance are one-sided arguments. Who would want to talk if the discussion is not willingly to listen to the other side of the argument.

S H A Y C 02/22/2015, 3:03:15 PM1 votes

Im not saying the game is completely balanced or anything, but there isn't a champion in the game that can't be beat if you master your champion. Ive wrecked people as ahri and feel she is really strong right now, but by the same token I've wrecked other ahri's with my backup lissandra....

so maybe...just maybe...the reason you're voices aren't being heard about champion imbalance is because you're wrong, or at the very least more wrong than you are right.

KaisadiIIa2/22/2015, 11:50:35 PM1 votes

they created so people can vent their anger about a champion

you guys haven't changed anything by making a 1000 threads about this champion, so just quit it.

If this is a place to vent your anger, why should you stop posting your anger here?

KaisadiIIa2/22/2015, 11:55:50 PM1 votes

I mean, it's obvious from just a glance that the people here strictly believe that Lee Sin is insanely broken and is impossible to beat

Lee Sin's problem is not that he is strictly OP. Lee Sin's problem is that it excels at everything. No matter the game, Lee Sin is as strong as the champions that should excel in that game. He's a jack of all trades, master of all of them.

FearTheDankness2/23/2015, 1:02:54 AM1 votes

Stop complaining about Lee Sin, he has a win rate of 46.7%, giving him the 15'th lowest win rate in game. Look at Lolking statistics and note that in the JG match-up chart he loses against every single jungler. Keeping all this in mind it it quite clear that Lee Sin being op is not a thing, the problem which you all are facing is that you suck, and are so bad at the game that you are letting a blind guy kick your a$$. Please stop spamming the boards with complaints about Lee sin and put your time to a better use by learning how to play the game. Thank you, Hell just got Raised .Talon

DarthFantasia8/23/2016, 5:56:45 AM1 votes

Honestly, if the people that worked at riot were competent the game would've been balanced by now.

OyddAWqJ5r2/22/2015, 5:29:00 AM1 votes

I wouldn't doubt it if this is all true.

Circuit Bear2/22/2015, 6:38:54 AM1 votes

There are three things wrong with your argument.

1st) You assume we want them nerfed because they are overpowered. I personally want Lee Sin nerfed for different reasons that actually do echo from a lot of people I have been playing with for years. Lee Sin is unfun to play against, overplayed to the point I am not exagerating, every time I played in the past 3 months and didn't ban him, he was played. Yes, he may not be broken, but 2+ years of seeing him a dramatic amount does get old when Sona gets nerfed for being "unfun" from "magic statistics you aren't allowed to see". Yes, I am well aware he isn't overpowered. But I actually had a lot of faith in riot, and I wanted to make it clear why I was leaving with a lot of my posts. and No, that isn't a "idle threat" or a "we'll see you in a week" My match history will tell you I have played maybe two games in 2+ months because I got tired of how the game was operating. Tired of my favorite characters being fucked up for years and getting nuked out of playability or till they aren't fun for showing signs of dominance for a moment.(Skarner, Sej, tanks in general that don't end up toplane).

2nd) Most complaints stem from actual logical arguments that other people bastardize. For example, Cass rework? About fifty of us actually did a lot of math before her release. We told them, showing the math step by step, equation by equation why it would end badly. And how did it end? Yea, she is good now(in a sense she can win games) but she is still unenjoyable as hell and it took them constant tweaking. I told a lot of people Elise would end up top lane on release. I usually can call how things will end by looking at numbers. And I know a lot of people who post there are better then me, cause I miss things or my conclusions I have a feeling but I can't find the logical string to why. And I have seen people do better. And Riot ignores these and they end up being right.

3rd) As others have mentioned. Half the time, people have emotional and financial investment in things(I have spent far more then I should on this game, and I am done with that, even though they are releasing an ultimate for a character tied for my alltime favorite(with shyv, who is unplayable except top since the end of season 2, and I am a jungle/support main), this is because Stashu is the only one I recently saw who communicated. Yea, he screwed up, yea I don't agree with his results, but honestly? At least he tried to be straight up with us. A lot of this crap is honestly disgusting on communication. Sona changes? People post math explaining it, and Riot blatantly said "Yea well, we don't care, we are pushing it to live". When stashu was working on cass, I KNEW it would end bad, I had ddone the numbers, I had posted about the numbers, I had corresponded with others who had. And Stashu dissappeared and came back with Morello, the right option to do, and I still disliked it, but at least he tried to talk with us to a degree after he dropped the cherry picking crap. And that got more respect from me and I actually defended him a few times, though not as much as I should have.

But if Riot won't even take their own boards which they forced on us seriously?(and post to reddit instead, or twitter, and not fix any problems with this boards) then why should we take them seriously? Communication matters with your clients. Any professional knows that. Even if you can't give a good answer, saying you will look at it or why you can't, is better then just saying "F you" which they have essentially done or not given us an answer at all a lot lately.

LootedGamre1/25/2016, 5:23:06 AM1 votes

riot is a shit company and will lost their player base as well as income soon enough, Koreans are the only ones who play any tournament anyway so there is no team to go for except Asian countries due to them taking over NA RU and EU like crazy to get into worlds easy!.