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LLStylish and RiotBlaustoise discussing Zed

2quick4u2·12/6/2018, 4:28:14 PM·35 votes·10,832 views

After LLStylish, Laceration, and Faker, Riot is also saying that zed is weak. In this video, LLStylish shows that zed has the least damage in an all-in at level 3 between Kassadin and Akali although Zed should counter Kassadin. Secondly Stylish tells RiotBlaustoise Zed's W cooldown issue, namely Zed's W is his only trade (since 1 shuriken doesn't count as a trade because of how little damage it does), escape and wave clear ability but it is on a 22 seconds cd, whereas Akali's W has 21 seconds cooldown, Leblanc's W has 18 seconds cd and these abilities aren't as important for these champion as Zed's W is for him.

Another issue is his and his opponents' itemization options. Zed's only good build is item 3147 item 3142 item 3036. The problem here is, Black Cleaver's smaller items are useless so you are really weak until you complete it and Black Cleaver has a stacking armor penetration but as Zed, if you don't deal enough damage with your W+E+2Q combo you won't kill him. So you can't use Black Cleaver that good. Other option would be transcendence with 30% cdr but then you can't take triumph which is really good on zed and you will have 30% cdr unless you don't buy a 10%cdr item which isn't optimal in most cases. Problem with the zed's opponents itemization is if they are AP they can buy seeker's armguard which is 45 armor with full stacks, (stopwatch which counters zed's all kit) and then upgrade it to Zhonya's for a really low price. That will reduce Zed's damage output significantly even though he is 1 level higher than this ap champion. If this AP champion also takes 10 armor runes, it is really hard for Zed to do anything.

LLStylish talks about the pre-season article that riot wrote, saying that assassins are hard to balance for example if Rengar gets fed he can one-shot anyone and carry the game, but if he falls behind he will be useless. LLStylish's asks if a Jax gets really fed, can he not do those things and carry the game as well? Except he wouldn't be useless if he falls behind since he has his stun and scaling. Assassins, who don't usually have any crowd control ability, can't be useful like Jax if they fall behind. The other difference is that bruisers have a lot more items to pick from, that are way more gold efficient than assassin's (mentioned in the video) but Zed, for example, can only buy the items I mentioned above.

The last point I want to make is Zed's early, mid and late game. Since Zed is an assassin you would expect him to have average early, good mid and bad late game win rate. According to champion.gg Zed has a: 50% win rate in 0-20 minutes 45,67% wr in 20-25 minutes 47,66% wr in 25-30 minutes 49,43% wr in 30-40 minutes 51,63% wr in 40+ So he has more win rate the longer the game goes on. The reason behind that is like LLStylish said, Zed isn't a champion before he completes his item 3147 item 3142 item 3036. I think an assassin who isn't that strong until 30 minutes is a bit weird.

I think Zed needs a buff, Lacaration has already written what type of buffs zed could get. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/HIiJwgkc-possible-ways-to-fix-zed

and this is Faker saying "Zed is crap". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6HbPBE9Hmk

ps: sorry for my bad English

68 Comments

A7X Kindred12/6/2018, 5:57:35 PM20 votes

Oh boy here we go again, Mage players will come and downvote this into oblivion and then rant about how zed is broken and stuff, Zed mains will give them facts and info about how he's not broken, mage players will ignore and instead point out that Zed has Maw to counter AP (which btw sucks).

They will then call their best friends the ad mains to downvote this as well, after a few days this thread will be filled with comments about a Zed being broken and not having any counterplay.

Fízz v212/6/2018, 4:58:27 PM15 votes

tbf pretty much any mid champ is gonna be trash to people like Faker with akali irelia aatrox LB, etc. around.

Zed still has above 10% pick rate and 50% win rate in diamond+. Zed isnt weaker than many other assassins that cant compete with bruisers/mages mid like Fizz and many other outdated mages.

MissMikasa12/6/2018, 5:45:09 PM8 votes

No. He's not weak. The meta is just not that good for him compared to other assassins.

Any type of buff will make him over the top 100% banned in low elo, and that is not fair to them just to appease the "high elo" players.

FOR JUSTICE12/6/2018, 5:13:03 PM7 votes

inb4 the boards goes ballistic once they decide to buff him

Sexy Jack Rabbit12/7/2018, 4:25:50 AM7 votes

As a mage only player I'll be the first say Zed is poopoo garbage. I think I only saw Zed played in my games a maximum of 20 or so times from the start of season 8 to now. I think it's partly due to how easy it is to poke him out with his lack of sustain (fuck akali) in this meta.

That said Zed being an Assassin that does better later is of no shock because his Ult passive or w/e copies a portion of the AD from the Enemy. Which is a stat that scales. So naturally he'll scale better.

SwiftKitten8812/6/2018, 10:14:33 PM6 votes

zed does not go below 49% in ANY elo. and in still managing a nearly 50% ban rate.

to even be consider buffing him is absurd

why the hell are we comparing him to champions like Jax Akali Irelia Kassadin Aatrox

ALL of those are some of the best champion in the game and most if not all could do with nerfs, and at least 3 of them desperately need those nerfs.

if u compare yourself to people who are blatantly broken then OF COURSE your going to "look weak"

i haven't mid laned in a while so i cant speak for mid lane's current balance.

but seriously anyone is going to look weak when u compare he to the best champs in the game...

Sulghunter12/6/2018, 11:44:39 PM4 votes

Here's an idea, instead of buffing an assassin, how about nerfing the ever loving crap out of everyone's damage, with the exception of Zed?

That way, Zed's damage will look good by comparison. Oh, and it will make the game far more enjoyable to play/watch as everyone won't have to fear that a single ability would blast off half their health outside of an ult, but that's just a minor side effect. The only result is that people will feel that trades or small skirmishes won't be so risky, but I think it is an acceptable change if it means Zed will become relevant. [slayer-jinx-wink]

R is for Reset12/7/2018, 3:43:03 AM4 votes

They won't buff his damage, just his utility which he desperately needs. He is far from being a mobile champion if his only escape and poke ability is on a 22 second cooldown.

TotalJerk12/7/2018, 9:32:13 PM3 votes

Zed simply does not do enough fucking damage unless he's fed. His kit is fine but his numbers are just hot ass. Most mages can just go item 3027 item 3157 and then proceed to never think about you again. Most of the people on these boards bitching about Zed are probably just salty that they can't just rush item 3285 item 3089 every game.

FéliXXX12/6/2018, 8:35:55 PM3 votes

there is an eu challenger player that asked a lot for zed buffs as well hes ign is diablo v2 (he renamed from zedrinos) and he had to stop playing zed in high elo.

Thefrostyviking12/6/2018, 10:45:11 PM3 votes

Thing is, Zed needs to have less damage than Kassa and Akali because he screws carrys way harder than they do until much later. his playstyle and poking has far less counterplay than either Akali or kass being only better than LB in it, his kit hasnt aged well at all in this sense.

Kassadin? Legitimately doesnt really do anything except roam unless you pick bad fights against him, all he does is farm and roam until later where he looks to make picks or do followup,,,,,not really a playmaker in any sense and his old kit also lacks counterplay later on at least he has a sufficiently weak early/mid for it to be alright, like he cant kill anything unless they screw up a lot.

Akali? While i agree that her post 6 ability to engage with her first ult is nasty to deal with as a carry her E and need to back off a distance before going back in still gives her sufficient counterplay, and her poke is the weakest one and most easily punished.

Zed? Similar to kassa in a sense that he wont do anything particular up to 6 but after that he will take any chance at all to just jump in, land hits in under a second then jump around once or twice while waiting for you to die, his poke is also by far the one that lacks counterplay the most since it both hurts and has massive range unless you stack armor, and while he is weaker without his W at the same time he can just do it twice and then go ham and get a kill so what does it matter?

While i think Akali might still be slightly overtuned and her "true stealth" is obnoxious she does at least have clear windows of weaknesses where she can be punished, and even several of them in a drawn out fight which makes dealing with her far more pleasing than with Zed who you either throw a stun or something to that effect the moment he ults behind you or you die, straight up die.

Or you Zhonya and explode anyway the moment you come out of it unless he´s diving balls deep 1v5.

Akali? E can be abused by her opponent, the need to back off to activate her passive can be abused and even her need to land her second ult dash can be punished.

So what is Zed´s issue and why should he never be buffed?

Shitty kit that needs a rework is what, because no matter what changes go through he will either be broken or useless, either he is hardcountered by tabi+zhonya and cant do shit or he isnt and is one of the most frustrating things anyone will ever play against.

"TL DR".

Zed´s kit has aged poorly and needs a akali level rework where he has multiple windows of counterplay to justify any kind of greater power pumped into it, because as it is now he will always either be useless or broken in high elo no matter what small changes go through.

Ifneth12/7/2018, 1:54:59 AM2 votes

What if, instead of multiple Shuriken hits on the same champion dealing less damage, Zed’s shadows just did less damage overall? He’s the Master of Shadows, not the Mage of Shadows. His gameplay should be about him.

With less damage on shadow Shurikens and Slashes, Zed would have less waveclear on his W-E-Q combo, and players trapped between two Shuriken could choose to walk into the Shadow one. He would affect other lanes less and be less rewarded for ‘fishing’ with his multiple simultaneous projectiles.

To compensate, Zed would receive a higher level scaling of his passive and higher initial base damage of E, to encourage all-ins and force him to walk up to waveclear. His passive could also be modified to halve his current W cooldown.

Fire Blaustoise12/7/2018, 5:22:10 PM2 votes

Nothing new tbh, Zed is same as Wukong (better during late-mid/late game). itemizations is trashy (if you compare to other class). Some already tried to talk about this, but they're downvoted to hell cause pleb got stomped by theses noob stomper.

item 2419 item 3191 item 3157 are seens as weak on this board [sg-miss-fortune]

Rıots Bad Client12/6/2018, 10:32:31 PM2 votes

what about Removing darkharvest(Or reworking it)

So that it disables items actives and summoner spells for 6 seconds if they get the target under 50%