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@Riot Assassin Ahri?

KyriaTheMystic·1/28/2015, 7:12:24 PM·27 votes·4,675 views

Allow me to start this off by saying I am perfectly fine with Riot trying to make Mage Ahri more present in her identity in her kit and itemization (through removal of DFG). However as someone who has grown to love her assassin/burst pattern, I was really saddened to see the removal of the damage amp on her Charm. The damage she does now (in terms of burst, not overall) I felt on PBE and still feel on live. I really just don't feel like playing Ahri anymore, and I was really looking forward to maining her this season after I got my placements done (I went 9/1 and got Gold 3).

To put it bluntly, I don't play Ahri to tickle the enemy teams balls from distance with my Q and W. A 'kite/poke' mage isn't why I liked her. I love her design, personality, VFX, voice, mobility, and (formerly) her ability to blow people up in spectacular fox-spirity fashion. To the people who do like that 'wear people down and eventually pick them off' style, good for you. This is a great patch for you, not so for me. If I wanted to play that kind of style, I would play... basically any ADC. That's what ADC does, slowly chunk people down until they get the kill shot/burst.

I see Riot promoting a lot of versatile play in kits (Nidalee hunt on jungle camps), and through items (the new season jungle items and pots), but they basically dropped Assassin Ahri into the trash and barely touched on her at all, instead speaking primarily on the half of Mage Ahri. While I could accept the removal of DFG as it was just an overkill item causing a toxic cycle of balancing, the removal of the Charm Amp on top was just too big of a hit. That's 40% of her damage during her burst window gone in one patch. Buffing the base damage on her Charm and the ratio isn't fair compensation for people who liked her Assassin play. I feel like I went from being a proper mid lane threat, to just sitting back on my heels and HOPING that if the enemy ganks I do enough damage to secure a kill. I feel pathetic in lane.

On top of this, without the damage amp on Charm... Charm is now, once again like it was a long time ago, now a very lackluster skill to use. Yes it still provides CC, but there isn't the satisfaction of landing it proper and blowing them up. Now you land it, deal a bit of damage, go on with your day. And you do this in the same patch as making Annie's Fire Shield (also a lackluster skill) now a LARGE part of playing Tibbers? AND you gave Fizz a damage amp on his ultimate? I just... I don't get it.

So, do you plan on letting people play her as an Assassin proper ever again? Or are you going to continue adjusting her as a kite/poke mage and alienate a portion of the players who liked Ahri in the first place? I know the old saying 'Riot hates assassins' isn't true. You made Zed for gods sake. I just would like an answer, maybe even discussion from Riot about us. The Assassin Ahri players, which I've not really seen touched on by anyone at Riot.

I would sincerely appreciate a response.

  • A concerned Ahri player, KyrosTheMystic

46 Comments

Decaedeus1/28/2015, 9:01:28 PM15 votes

This is the weirdest thing. Ahri was actually an insanely well-designed assassin. if she poked too much, she would be choked for her burst combo. She had strong roam and chase power, as well as high on-demand mobility. However, she had windows of no mobility and large vulnerability (Charm/Spirit Rush cooldown). I loved playing against Ahri, as she was the least bullshit assassin; there were ways against her, and when she killed me, I really felt outplayed. I also loved playing as Ahri; you had windows of power, and windows of vulnerability. Your burst combo felt visceral and deadly, and she was in character as a seductress who would lure you in, then turn around and nuke the living shit outta you. Now, she's like a shitty Xerath with mobility. I'm very disappointed in this rework.

Keevalroy1/28/2015, 7:15:43 PM10 votes

She could fight Zed, therefore she must be destroyed - Rito Gaems Belence Depurtment.

midorii1/28/2015, 8:32:10 PM10 votes

I would take a renerf of her W damage just to get the amp'd charm effect back. Right now there is no reason for me to charm if I can easily just hit them with my Q. They are nearly just as expensive mana wise and Q offers more damage and movement speed.

Why bother with charm unless you are cc'ing someone so your ally can hit them? I can with my Q and W perfectly fine all game. This change just made her really uninteresting :/

AnythingWere1/29/2015, 8:46:20 AM9 votes

I was just thinking this in the first game I played with the new Ahri. They basically just shit on my favorite champion, and if they don't fix her quick, they just wasted my money that I spent on her challenger skin.

Jungle Lux God1/28/2015, 11:40:53 PM7 votes

The reason Riot changed Ahri to be more like a kiting-oriented mage was because that was what made Ahri stand out from all the other mages in the game; she basically created this huge niche not as a kiting-oriented, mobile mage, but as THE kiting-oriented, mobile mage. And lets be honest here, that is exactly what made Ahri unique even before her changes, in that she had tons of mobility as a mage.

If you want someone with the same kind of burst pattern as Ahri, there is almost a dozen burst mages/ assassins I could recommend to you.

Krys Star1/28/2015, 9:40:11 PM7 votes

Unfortunately, Riot's not going to do anything about it and wont care about how we feel. We're voicing our opinions to a brick wall for the past 6+ months. The only active Rioter you see these days is Katey. Meanwhile the others, especially Baconhawk whenever I see his posts, just make sarcastic and cynical remarks ( and why he continues to do so shows that Riot doesn't truly care about respecting the community. Profit speaks louder ). We're stuck with the new Ahri, just as we're stuck with the new Cassiopeia and eventually we'll be stuck with the new x, x being the next champion they decide whose identity needs to be ruined.

FebruAhri1/29/2015, 7:59:53 PM7 votes

except that they nerfed ahri's damage while also removing dfg..

mi ramfan1/29/2015, 3:49:24 PM6 votes

Well, frankly your Assassin Ahri made my Mage Ahri unplayable for 2 seasons, so I'm having a little bit of trouble feeling sympathy for you.

Even without the damage amp, Charm is one of the best normal abilities in the game. It deals some damage with a meh ratio, it's true, but you're really using it for the CC effect. Landing one Charm guarantees your entire burst combo in lane and is a great initiation and peeling tool in teamfights. Yes, great Ahri players can still kill people without landing Charm. All Ahri players will agree that landing charm makes it much easier.

The problem with Assassin Ahri is this: there was no reason to actually pick her over other assassins. Want mobility? Good job literally other assassin has it, and most of them have it on regular abilities. Want damage? Other assassins do more of it and don't have to land skillshots (see: Leblanc, Fizz prior to 5.2). Utility/#LCSbigplays? Go play Zed or Leblanc.

On the other hand, Mage Ahri has her mobility to set her apart from other mages. Good luck doing the stuff you can do with Ahri with Brand or Malzahar. Making her a Mage just makes more sense.

Roguefayt1/28/2015, 8:45:40 PM6 votes

i know i was a huge fan of ahri had a skin thank god i didnt get the new one these changes have honeslty made her just aweful for the way i liked to play her thanks riot for making me shelf one of the champs i loved

Belisarius091/30/2015, 5:16:24 AM6 votes

I feel so sorry for the Ahri players. Her new identity is "useless."

I'm an Akali player, and I'm obviously not thrilled with the nerfs to my assassin. But even the nerfs to Akali pale in comparison to the gutting of Ahri. They straight up changed the identity of your champion.

You have my sympathies.

Zahz1/28/2015, 9:17:35 PM5 votes

wow are u seriously gonna down vote anyone that isnt ranting with you

Linna Excel1/28/2015, 7:39:38 PM5 votes

They don't want her to be an assassin right now. They are trying to move her back into being a mobile kiting mage.

Zahz1/28/2015, 7:19:51 PM5 votes

Its not really unxpected. Ahri is primarly a mage with assassin as her secondary role. Meaning her primary role naturally should be buffed stronger then her secondary.

50West1/28/2015, 7:31:52 PM4 votes

Well, if Riot intends on her being an actual assassin than you'll see them buff her amp damage off her Charm. If not, than there is your answer.

I think people will be surprised how much damage Ahri still does without a DFG.

Venera1/28/2015, 10:44:17 PM4 votes

The changes to Q makes for faster side lane ganks. If I play Ahri, my goal won't be to 1v1 burst someone, it'll probably be to get my side lanes to snowball or setup for the kill.

Oh and my AD Ahri got buffed. Yey.

Zushakon1/29/2015, 8:43:11 PM3 votes

I need to relearn how to play her, and until I do I'm withholding judgement on the overall change. However, my preliminary impressions are:

I do like the Q change. I would like to see it get a damage buff to make up for losing the bonus damage it otherwise would have gotten from Charm (this also applies to her ultimate as well).

I agree with the others who say that Charm feels underwhelming right now. Charm was an expensive and difficult to hit skillshot because landing it meant you had the opportunity to blow someone up. While not exactly useless,** landing a good Charm now feels very unrewarding compared to before**. I understand if they don't want to put the damage amp back on Charm, but perhaps consider letting Charm pass through minions or reduce the damage output of the target? Maybe give Charm a reduced mana cost or cooldown per level? As it stands, there is very little reason to level Charm more than once. (And yes, I am aware than Charm is usually leveled last.) I would occasionally put a second point in Charm early for the 25% increased CC duration. Now that her playstyle is more about long fights than quick burst, briefly CCing an enemy has a negligible effect on your kill pressure. Charm used to feel integral to her kit. Now it feels like an ill fit that was tacked on.

I guess my biggest complaint is that I no longer feel 'dangerous' when I play Ahri. Before, with all of my cooldowns up, I had the potential to catch and kill someone. Now I throw energy blobs and run away. Before, I would be the one trying to catch my enemies and they would be the one dodging/running. Now I am the one who is running, dodging, and trying not to get caught while they are the ones chasing. The counterplay for her being dangerous at close range with her cooldowns up was two-fold. She is incredibly squishy, so getting in close meant taking on a great deal of risk to yourself as well. Additionally, she is very vulnerable with her cooldowns down and needs to play cautiously until they are refreshed. Being near an enemy Ahri with her cooldowns up used to mean you had a very real risk of getting killed or chunked hard at the very least. I miss that.

If Fox-fire didn't do reduced damage for multiple hits or had better scaling, maybe that would make her feel dangerous at close range again.

Also, if she got a damage buff on her ultimate or if it buffed her other damage, it would make it feel less like a re-positioning tool with a free W tacked on and more like an actual 'shit just got real' ultimate.

Finally, Ahri is hardly unique as a kiting oriented mobility mage. Cassiopeia wears that crown quite well.

TLDR: This is more than just a change from an Assassin playstyle to a kite and poke playstyle, this is a change from playing like a predator to playing like prey.

LordVeral1/29/2015, 4:14:48 AM2 votes

she's as much of an assassin now as she was before. She doesnt need that damage amp on her charm or dfg to ace a whole team in under 5 seconds...literally...we faced an Ahri in the second game i played today and our mid didnt do too well seeing as how he hasnt played the role for quite a while...but she kind of annihilated him and then went on to annihilate the rest of our team for the rest of the game..her final score was something like 20/3 or something....Our team won...somehow..probably cuz i was fed as tristana -shrug- but....She's still scary shit

stealthfox941/29/2015, 3:57:50 PM2 votes

I still don't understand what the big deal is????

kirbyzama1/30/2015, 6:17:16 AM2 votes

I have literally only tested these changes in custom games (so take this with a grain of salt) but I noticed a few things. I also want to comment about the charm which people forget.

First observations. With Ahri's new Q she has a scary fast approach. Just straight up using your W in lane can be hard to get full value as most enemies keep distance. With the Q you can run up with W and get both spells to land easily and often safely. However Q still disrupts movement so it doesn't make it a great "Kite" option unless you are already at a decent distance where a smart opponent will give up. The problem I always had with the solo kite identity a number of champions have is that Kiting an enemy almost requires that enemy to be vacuous. I honestly wonder if we will see the return of the season 3 max W first Ahri return. There is defiantly stuff to play with here but her damage overall is nerfed which is sad but she was more or less just the assassin that could actually kill Janna. The idea of an elusive fox/pretty lady putting you on a goose chase is pretty thematic too, though so was the "kiss of death".

As for the charm. I see this a lot. Most people talking about the charm are using some hyperbole. When you talk like that even Urgot sounds op with his built in red buff. Charm is more often then not maxed last. Q is needed for the wave clear and w is needed for some guaranteed damage. So for the majority of the time Charm is at level 1 with a 1 second charm. Still a good CC but brand Annie and Xerath's stuns are better flat cc's, also far less expensive. Most AP mids have some kind of cc many of which are just better. Now wait you may be saying. Ahri is mobile! True after level 6 and whenever R isn't on CD but let's not over value a 1 second single target CC. Also as a disengage its kinda wonky as it positions the enemy toward you. Great for baiting tower dives though.

Don't get me wrong its a great team orient spell and is great for picking people and at level 18 you have a great utility but I just wanted illustrate it's no longer a kiss of death at all. Its just a utility spell. Honestly if they just reduced the mana cost on charm for early levels it would be worth adding to the spell rotation more often. Sure you could use E(get a 1 second NOT 2 charm) go oom but trade safely or you could QW and just dodge the enemy à la Faker.

Finally, there seems to be a lot of rose colored glasses about mage Ahri. Does no one remember the W into R for damage melting teams? I will still play Ahri and I'm sure I'll have fun(her passive makes more sense on this kit anyway) but I just wanted to share.

DEmperor951/29/2015, 3:21:41 PM1 votes

Removing DFG is a straight up nerf to assassin Ahri. Buffing her numbers to maker her blow people up without needing DFG is bad idea, and will make her a generic blow-someone-up assassin like LeBlanc is at the moment. The difference is that Ahri has magey playstyle, with long-range poke, waveclear, sustain, and all what LeBlanc currently have as weaknesses. Making her a LeBlanc without weaknesses is bad for character variety in the game, and will definitely make her unhealthy to play against.

I enjoy the new Ahri and I think the direction they took with her is right to make her much more unique and fun. She still does so much damage, and her charm hits like a truck now. Some people will definitely disagree and will voice their opinions on the boards about it, and that's fair. Everyone is attached to something and finds something fun, and not every change will please everyone.

Enemy Syndra GG1/29/2015, 12:36:44 PM1 votes

I'm pretty sure Die-hard assassin Ahri players will still be able to nuke people just as effectively. They removed DFG because they stated it was somewhat overwhelming to play against and didn't leave enough time to react.

SnackieCakes1/30/2015, 6:22:10 AM1 votes

Problem is you can't really have specifically BURST damage tied up with high, reliable mobility without having balance problems (see: Zed). It's not impossible to combine the two, but the character would have to be very limited, which is to say limited from other roles (like the mage role) - so there's going to be a conflict between your desires, and mage Ahri desires.

Nucleophilic atk1/29/2015, 6:39:21 PM1 votes

Where's assassin Fiddles? I demand that he gets good damage put on his Q and all of his W and R damage be in burst form.