Everyone is too busy talking about conqueror to notice the actual problem: AP itemization.

Slade25·1/2/2019, 7:36:44 PM·22 votes·4,213 views

This will probably get downvoted into the depths of hell, but that's okay. I want to hear y'alls perspective in the comments.

As we all know, this is a high damage meta. True tanks are rare, as bruisers and assassins are far more viable in the current meta. Things like Dark Harvest and Conqueror are frequently complained about on the boards, but for some reason, people aren't catching on to how STRONG AP items are. Check winrates on any site of your choosing. AP champs are meta in top, mid, support, and share ADC with Lucian, Jhin and Kai'sa. Why is this dominance of four positions allowed?

Let's talk about specific AP Items. I'll use Banshees Veil as my examples. This is supposed to be a defensive AP item, so there should be significant damage trade-off when this item is selected. However, banshee's veil gives only 15 less AP than Luden's, the base offensive AP item for most mages; and it gives MORE AP THAN VOID STAFF. On top of this, it gives +60 MR (which is more than ANY tank item gives btw), 10% CDR, and a spell shield. How is that a trade-off?

AP champs need to have more clearcut tradeoffs. If they want to do more damage, they should HAVE to build Void staff or Spellbinder, rather than just having enough damage that they can build "defensively" and still one-shot squishies. Most AP champs already have CC in their kit; giving them the ability to build defensively and still one-shot is just too much.

TL;dr - AP champs don't need to build "offensive" items like void staff or spellbinder because their defensive options like Zhonya's, Liandry's and Banshee's provide enough damage on their own, leading to unhealthy itemization.

66 Comments

wildfox9T1/2/2019, 7:47:03 PM11 votes

edit : forgot to quote

However, banshee's veil gives only 15 less AP than Luden's, the base offensive AP item for most mages

banshee doesn't give mana which is needed for casting abilities,also it have less CDR and it doesn't have a damaging passive

TL;dr - AP champs don't need to build "offensive" items like void staff or spellbinder because their defensive options like Zhonya's, Liandry's and Banshee's provide enough damage on their own, leading to unhealthy itemization.

item 3812 item 3155 item 3748 item 3046 item 3053 item 3072 [sg-miss-fortune]

######(also you usually can't stack AP defensive items)

Moody P1/2/2019, 7:57:52 PM10 votes

mage players infest the boards and distract you by complaining about things that aren't strong like conqueror and assassins

BobaFlautist1/2/2019, 8:48:50 PM9 votes

God this is such a one sided, narrow, misleading analysis. I can't decide if you've done this on purpose, you've managed to fool yourself, or you're genuinely incapable of understanding why what you've written completely fails to present the facts.

Fízz v21/2/2019, 8:32:10 PM8 votes

Banshees neither has mana nor a damaging effect tho, thats a pretty big tradeoff. You could make the same argument for Maw except that most AD champs dont even need a lot of mana so its even better.

Also lets not talk about builds like item 3078 item 3748 item 3053 item 3026 that also have enough damage and defense

JeaneGreene1/2/2019, 8:43:02 PM6 votes

AP champs are picked in pro play for their CC, not their damage.

Akumu1/2/2019, 10:50:49 PM6 votes

Ya AP items are clearly the sole cause of damage meta, that must be why Brusiers 2 consistently 2 shot me, those sick AP items they all build.

Captain Mayora1/2/2019, 9:07:13 PM5 votes

What tickles my butthole is that there are AP mages that works so well with rylai / liandry that they can afford to get 3k+ health along with zhonya, still deal a tonfest of damage and never fear of getting killed because they can throw their whole spell rotation. That's... not fun.

Noor Sakata1/3/2019, 12:34:46 AM3 votes

Is this a troll post or what I really can't understand lol , idk , comparing Conqueror to Ap items ? wat

Somebody Love Me1/2/2019, 10:03:59 PM3 votes

It's not just mages

Bruisers have 3k hp while having 300+ ad and nasty enough damage in their kits to basically be assassins, while having better survivability than tanks.

Assassins one shot fast enough and have enough mobility to hopefully get out.

Mages have hella damage and utility.

Marksman....well they have damage. Damage that they can't get out because other classes either have more damage or the non damage perks outweigh a marksman's damage pre 4 items.

Every other class has damage and a way to survive or be helpful, and marksmen not named Ezreal or Lucian just offer damage. The two I mentioned have enough mobility and safety to survive and pump more damage.

I suggest take another whack at damage across the board. Not just in runes, but on items too. Then we assess items that should have utility and those that should not (duskblade sweeper). Then maybe another look at base stats. (FIX ADC BASE STATS THE BASE STAT NERFS TO MARKSMEN DID NOT NEED TO HAPPEN).

Thats what I thought would happen in preseason but it just ended up being preseason 8 part 2.

Edit: I didn't mention tanks. Tanks have defense and utility that gets outdone by damage so riot gives them damage as compensation.

This isn't okay.

koshkyra1/3/2019, 12:17:26 AM3 votes

banshees veil only gives 15 AP less than ludens

It also gives 10% less cdr, 600 less mana and doesn’t have the 100 (+10% AP) AoE damage passive. But yes let’s only talk about the 15 AP.

The thigh guy1/2/2019, 8:16:13 PM3 votes

Defensive stats are irrelevant due to the insane amount of free pen and true damage in the game, health is also most irrelevant due to the insane amount of %hp damage in the game.

Banshee’s and Zhonya are litteraly only bought for the active and passive abilities now.

SithesisLord1/2/2019, 10:58:08 PM2 votes

AP champs don't need to build "offensive" items like void staff or spellbinder

Void Staff is only really worth it to either overkill on MPen or against MR stacking comps.

Spellbinder isn´t for every AP champion. Optimal usage of it requires ability spamming to reach 100 stacks faster. And even with 45% CDR, not every AP champ can spam abilities quickly enough.

If they want to do more damage, they should HAVE to build Void staff or Spellbinder

Similarly, Divers, Skirmishers and Marksmen should HAVE to build LDR to deal with armor stackers, not have true damage in their runes or their items.

Lhuhz1/2/2019, 8:14:24 PM1 votes

Yes.