wanna know why fiora's winrate is low

freepointzs··25 votes·4,503 views

it isn't because she is weak like some fiora mains try to claim. It's because her strength is dueling/splitpushing. In solo que/dynamic que games are pretty much decided by teamfights. It's why heavy aoe damage/cc champions have always been strong in this environment. split pushing is just hard to pull off in a non-ranked 5's environment.

Doesn't make her any less unhealthy. She is impossible to duel, gets rewarded too much for going into a tanky build, is impossible to itemize against due to percent true damage.

It's just that her strength's are best utilized in a coordinated environment (lcs) rather than solo que where constant ARAM pushes are the norm

52 Comments

WadeWilson13378 votes

The biggest issue i personally have Fiora is that she outscales basically every top laner in the game. Usually when you scale harder than an Irelia, your early game suffers as a consequence, but this isnt the case at all. Fiora has infuriating poke with her Q, sustain, and if you try to trade on her she can just pop her W and bounce away. And then beyond level 6, if she has her ult, you basically cant fight her without jungle help as no one can 1v1 her. Its just dumb thats shes strong at all points in the game.

AlwaysByMySide2 votes

{quoted}

no one can 1v1 her.

Tryndamere Nasus MasterYi Jax

All four can potentially 1v1 Fiora at every stage of the game (except Nasus, who has to get stacked first, and probably not Master Yi who needs to get those on-hits to scale).

Also, I don't know where this "Fiora is dominant in lane" meme is coming from. Fiora can potentially beat people in lane through outplaying them, but a Darius, Teemo, Kayle, Quinn, Graves, Poppy, Trundle, or Pantheon is able to more easily dominate her in laning phase, for example.

Ztoka2 votes

Don't forget Pantheon... Riven and Poppy do pretty darn well against her also..

WadeWilson13372 votes

Pantheon falls off very hard, but yes he counters Fiora pretty well. I dont agree on Riven, atleast not in her current state. I couldnt say much about Poppy, though im 90% certain she gets outscaled pretty hard, though ive never seen the matchup.

Sightless661 votes

Poppy has a pretty easy matchup against Fiora. You can fight her easily early on, and then you can push out very quickly and force teamfights that Fiora either can't join or can't do as well as Poppy in once the midgame and lategame start. An equally strong Fiora usually isn't able to strongly punish her for doing so. Add in how much Poppy just completely denies Fiora during teamfights, and you have a nice little counter set up. Just so long as you never 1v1 the Fiora late game then you're golden (and if you're playing right, you should never have to).

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

People always complain about how Fiora goes 2 damage 4 tank items and beats them. You know how you beat her? You curbstop her so hard in lane before she hits her 2 damage item powerspike through jungle ganks (Q CD is long as hell before level 9) or by picking someone she literally cannot fight/kill. Panth and Trynd both have extreme dominance on her throughout the lane to the point top lane is almost a guaranteed 2v2 with both junglers up there and Fiora also loses almost every ranged match up in the book. She has weaknesses because her early game is quite bad and if you pick a champion that cannot punish that it is all on you and not her. She does next to NO damage before 1 item since her bases are so bad (3% on passive and 105 base on Q) and exploiting that is how you beat her so if you pick something stupid like Maokai top against her you deserve to lose.

WadeWilson13372 votes

Tryndamere can be so easily kited that even with just her Qs, she can just lunge away from him while she ults, and then step on him since she can stack armor and he cant. Trynd is fairly weak early on as well, making it pretty easy for Fiora to abuse that with an above average early game. Nasus Very similar to Trynd, needs items to do anything. With fioras true damage, Nasus isnt a problem and she will likely crap all over him until MAYBE the 20 minute mark, and thats if the Fiora didnt destroy you in lane. MasterYi ...I really dont see on this one..again maybe with sated and bork, but not so sure about that one. Jax Fiora counters jax so hard. His E is quite possibly the most telegraphed stun in the entire game, as soon as he helicopters around and trys jumping on you, Riposte. Now hes got no cc, and you just murder him as he will be fairly squishy, especially pre6.

DarthSpectrum2 votes

As a Fiora player, it is true that all 4 of these champions have the upper hand against her.

Tryndamere isn't that strong early, but his W AD reduction brings Fiora down to his level. It is difficult for Fiora to win trades against Tryndamere as Tryndamere can utilize his 35% crit chance from his passive at all stages of the game while Fiora's vital damage relies heavily on her bonus AD.

Tryndamere is probably one of the only melee match ups that can beat Fiora constantly throughout the stages of the game.

Fiora can disengage from Tryndamere with her slows and her lunge, but that is pretty much all she can do against him. She will lose in a 1 v 1 fight if both champions have similar gold.

For Nasus, I was actually surprised at how well she beats Fiora when I first played against one. Fiora's vitals start off at 3% maximum health true damage. That is nothing compared to how well Nasus can sustain. Champions that typically beat Nasus are those who can safely put out consistent damage without retaliation from Nasus such as Teemo or Quinn. If Fiora tries to all-in Nasus, she might win the trade but Nasus will out sustain her with his passive. Also, Nasus' ultimate counteracts Fiora's damage. A Nasus can ult after Fiora hits most of her ultimate vitals. The health he gains from his ultimate will not be penalized from the vitals Fiora hit earlier. The same applies to other abilities that regenerates health or gives a strong shield. This is why champions such as Mundo, Nasus, Lulu, Shen, and Pantheon have such good win rates against Fiora since they can negate the damage from a few vitals.

Yi beats Fiora if he goes the infamous tank build. Yi deals physical and true damage as well, but in higher values. It essentially becomes a stat check - one that Yi usually wins. Yi just need to AA and can still output better numbers than if Fiora hit every vital perfectly. If Yi builds glass cannon however, Fiora can usually get him by bursting him down with Grand Challenge.

Jax is my main, and the match up is surprisingly skill reliant. I get the feeling that you do not know Jax well; I can assure you that while a mediocre FIora can beat a mediocre Jax, a good Jax counters a good FIora.

Jax's E allows her to dodge Fiora's Qs and AAs, effectively rendering her useless while it is up. Moreover, Jax can decide when to close his E. The time frame that Jax can maintain Counter Strike is over 2 times the duration of Fiora's Riposte. Essentially, Jax can simply jump on her with E up and not close it until he sees that Fiora uses Riposte. If Fiora decides to hold on to Riposte, Jax can literally just start walking away. Fiora can chase after him with Q, but she will end up tanking minion aggro. No matter Fiora's decision, during the time Counter Strike is up Jax will take no damage from Fiora, while Fiora would have received at least 2 auto attacks.

In an all-in, there is no doubt that Jax would win. The reason Fiora appears to counter Jax is because she exploit Jax's greatest weakness, his inability to mitigate poke damage. Jax's counter strike has a 16 second CD at rank 1. This leaves Fiora ample time to sneak in some Lunges.

AlwaysByMySide1 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere can be so easily kited that even with just her Qs, she can just lunge away from him while she ults, and then step on him since she can stack armor and he cant. Trynd is fairly weak early on as well, making it pretty easy for Fiora to abuse that with an above average early game. Nasus Very similar to Trynd, needs items to do anything. With fioras true damage, Nasus isnt a problem and she will likely crap all over him until MAYBE the 20 minute mark, and thats if the Fiora didnt destroy you in lane. MasterYi ...I really dont see on this one..again maybe with sated and bork, but not so sure about that one. Jax Fiora counters jax so hard. His E is quite possibly the most telegraphed stun in the entire game, as soon as he helicopters around and trys jumping on you, Riposte. Now hes got no cc, and you just murder him as he will be fairly squishy, especially pre6.

Tryndamere can also easily QSS her ult late game, so her armour stacking doesn't mean a lot when her big ult nuke is totally useless. Or, hear me out, he could auto the shit out of her through her ult because his base stats literally shit on hers. Tryndamere is weak early on against certain match ups. His early game crits do much more damage than she does early game, and require much less work to pull off. He also is one of the few champions who can decrease how much true damage she does, by decreasing her AD. Tryndamere can potentially 1v1 her early game, and late game it's not really close. Mercurial Scimitar OP.

Is Nasus gonna 1v1 Fiora early game? No, not really. But then, why would he try? Also, Fiora doesn't beat Nasus in lane. She doesn't do enough damage to force him out or kill him. He easily sustains it all back. Nasus can start beating Fiora 1v1 at around 300 or so stacks, assuming she hasn't been fed.

A non-sated Yi is barely a Yi at all. He can easily kit her attempts to proc his vitals with highlander, and in a pure DPS war he wins easily.

Nah, it's all about timing. If he lands the stun, he wins, if she lands the stun, she wins. Though to be blunt, late game I have the feeling he just auto attacks her to death.

SpookyNeedle1 votes

Jax against Fiora matchup is in Jax's favor, counter strike lasts 2 seconds while reposte lasts .75, so mind games.

WadeWilson13371 votes

Jax winrate vs Fiora in plat+ 45.75%. Lol.

AwesomeChad5 votes

and thats why riot uses LCS/competitive league to get a better idea of what needs to be nerfed.

Very Hard Engage3 votes

not at all, its that people below plat dont have the "mechanics" to play her right, because in LCS shes a monster at out dueling everyone in a 1v1 in the bot lane split push game.

people are just upset they cant get a penta with her anymore or blow up the enemy back line.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Plat+ her win rate is low though o.o

Very Hard Engage2 votes

{quoted}

Plat+ her win rate is low though o.o

its 49.6%, what do you consider "low" http://champion.gg/champion/Fiora/Top

Edge of Daybreak2 votes

{quoted}

its 49.6%, what do you consider "low" http://champion.gg/champion/Fiora/Top

Well considering the fact that boards is acting like she is this 100% winrate uncounterable god of league I would hope it would be at least 52%. Hell people are asking for compensation buffs for nautilus who is actually ridiculous.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Anything under 50% is low. unless their play rate is 10% or above then 48% is low,

Anything above 54% is high, unless their play rate is above 10% then above 52% is high

So 50%-54% for normally played champions, 48%-52% for those with a play rate above 10%

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

its 49.6%, what do you consider "low" http://champion.gg/champion/Fiora/Top

Don't use Champion.gg, use LeagueofGraphs.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fiora/platinum

Very Hard Engage1 votes

oh wow, thank you for the daily update. im so curious to know about the super narrow scope of how she performs in a limited number of games.....

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

oh wow, thank you for the daily update. im so curious to know about the super narrow scope of how she performs in a limited number of games.....

Then just change the scope yourself + Plat+ is usually the range people use when talking about game balance. Even champion.gg is Plat+.

So thanks for your lousy sarcasm.

Silents4293 votes

Doesn't make her any less unhealthy. She is impossible to duel,

I have 2 trundle games in my match history where I completely destroyed Fiora

I have another one a bit further back as Garen where I comically beat her too.

I have 2 from last patch where my Shen was insane against her.

I don't know if I just naturally play Fiora counters, but she really isn't that hard to play against.

Masala Chai2 votes

Trundle is a fairly good duelist in his zone Garen is OK match up vs Fiora Any Shen that wins against Fiora is either a God, or the Fiora was playing for the first time.

Shahamut1 votes

I have also beaten Fiora as Trundle, and Garen, and even Skarner... Skarner has to get 3 items first, but eh.

Garen wasn't even fair... Neither was Trundle really.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Fiora ults.....you W as Shen and half the ult duration is now gone. It's not an EASY match up, but it is definitely not hopeless for Shen since his Sunfire spike is arguably better than Fiora with Tiamat and parts to her Hydra. Shen also provides global pressure when compared to Fiora since she cannot effectively follow his ult with tp because her TP ganks are among the worst for top laners.

Masala Chai1 votes

Right thinking about old Shen RIP.

Silents4291 votes

No Shen destroys her in lane because he forces her to play on his terms because of his taunt, Most of her damage will plummet with his W

Trundle doesn't need to be in his Zone to fuck up Fiora either, AA + Q + AA With thunderlords will literally half her health before she gets any armor items. I literally toy and dance with Fioras in lane to the point they stop coming to lane from how ruined they are.

Masala Chai1 votes

Oh, right. THinking about old Shen QQ

Scoroct1 votes

I think shen may win actually as long as she doesnt have ult (so pre 6 mainly) since his w can nullify her crits from e and stop vital proccing through autos (cause while it has a low cd, early game her Q isnt completly spammable yet in a proper all in). plus his shield and dash let him chase fiora after she tries to Q poke. I don't know yet for sure just I played fiora vs shen and he would always outrade me due to his passive shield and/or w. If she isnt building a lot of AD his shield alone can absorb most of her passive if he keeps it up

AlwaysByMySide3 votes

{quoted}

I think shen may win actually as long as she doesnt have ult (so pre 6 mainly) since his w can nullify her crits from e and stop vital proccing through autos (cause while it has a low cd, early game her Q isnt completly spammable yet in a proper all in). plus his shield and dash let him chase fiora after she tries to Q poke. I don't know yet for sure just I played fiora vs shen and he would always outrade me due to his passive shield and/or w. If she isnt building a lot of AD his shield alone can absorb most of her passive if he keeps it up

Shen fucks Fiora up in lane, yes. His W also blocks her Q's vital proccing. Shen trades very well versus most melee champions, and Fiora is no exception.

Scoroct1 votes

Ahh ok so does jax's dodge work similarly? blocking her Q? i wasnt exactly sure if during the matchup shen's w stopped my Q from procing the vitals, cause if so thats really nice for shen and jax.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

The only thing you have to watch out for is W on your taunt, but you should never have to taunt her anyway since she will almost always bring the fight to you where you will bash her skull in anyway. You can honestly probably go that entire lane without taunting her and just farming and fighting back when she wants to fight and be more useful since she (realistically) will never kill you and Shen does more on a kill-less budget (which he also probably won't be on anyway since he can just ult out for Assists/Kills and Fiora can't do anything about it since following him is a waste of time since her TP ganks are awful and would be late regardless).

Luxana Crowngard2 votes

Dis is why you play Fiora Support :^)

La Barbotte3 votes

please dont

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

"It's just that her strength's are best utilized in a coordinated environment (lcs) rather than solo que where constant ARAM pushes are the norm"

Is that why she has a negative win rate in every region, other than NA which is the worse major region?

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

This forum demonized Fiora. There are way stronger champions out there at the moment and some them are even more annoying to play against. She is not even that popular. Someone could decide that Fiora is in every game, but she is not from the most popular champions. Check lolking and champion.gg. She was popular for 2 weeks after the rework and then people stopped spamming her.

Bisaknosp1 votes

if you leave out the tanky part this description also fits for Vayne

EvilRabbitt1 votes

Have you ever played tank vayne? #terror

Only Play Darius1 votes

They pretty much killed that build once sated devourer got changed to 4 hits for ranged champions. And good riddance, absolute cancer

Dunkrius2g1 votes

item 3512 item 3046 item 3742 is all she needs to 1v1 anyone

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't make her any less unhealthy. She is impossible to duel, gets rewarded too much for going into a tanky build, is impossible to itemize against due to percent true damage.

It's just that her strength's are best utilized in a coordinated environment (lcs) rather than solo que where constant ARAM pushes are the norm

It continues to sound as if anyone with Dueling power is Unhealthy. The very fact that she becomes a Monster in Dueling, is indicative of her title as "The Grand Duelist." Her dueling won't get nerfed, because that's exactly what she's suppose to be good at. Rather Riot would want to nerf what should be intended weaknesses. (Even though it seems like they are not sure what those are suppose to be.) They also don't want to remove the %HP true damage, cause that's what allows duelists to 1v1 anyone, without becoming completely oppressive against Squishy targets. Duelists are designed to have few means of actually counterbuilding (otherwise tanks would brush everything off.) Yet Fiora's vitals are designed to add counterplay, in place of Counter building. (Though perhaps there is too little Counterplay because she can proc vitals too easily, or too often.)

That in mind, I do agree that she benefits way too much from tank itemization. A duelist should probably be pretty vulnerable to Burst and assassinations, compared to tankier counterparts.

{quoted}

if you leave out the tanky part this description also fits for Vayne

Arguably, Vayne does have some Counter build options, as her W is based on her AS. Meaning that she's affected by AS slows from Randuins and Frozen heart. On the same token though, the Fact that her W scales with AS means that her Actual shreading ability can scale heavily, later in the game. Not so much with Fiora, as her passive is gated largely by how often Vitals show up on her target.

Then again, the fact that Fiora's passive isn't nearly as scaling reliant, is likely the reason why Tanky Fiora even works. Even if that wasn't the case, not being completely scaling reliant on her passive means that she's a lot harder to put her behind.

Scoroct1 votes

Personally, I am sorta ok with Fiora being able to duel anyone, and also being built as a bruiser (which is what most duelists are, try to duel jax, yi or irelia, xin, the only full glass cannon duelists are assasins and tryndamere basically) although i do agree she probably does too much damage (or maybe its that she sustains too well without building dmg). although honestly without her ult tank fiora seems to not do as much as people make it out to be, making QSS against tank fiora extremely effective later on.

I think a very annoying thing though is that you cant choose to not fight her due to her w being a 50% attack speed and movement speed slow that works even if you didnt hit her. I think a reasonable nerf is that her w should have no affects on enemy champions unless they damage her while she uses it, or something like that. It sorta lets her fight many laners at lvl 3 cause they cant get away or trade back even if they dont waste attacking her during it.

Shahamut1 votes

I beat her frequently as Skarner... straight up 1v1 after I get a few items... :/

Frius1 votes

50% winrate

some just get nerfed if they have 45-46% so fiora is bshit

Zonkman1 votes

No its because I cant carry these low elo scrubs with my super secret ap fiora build

The Deckowner1 votes

fioea just have a low winrate in lower elo and less practiced players, her winrate with 125+ games played is 55%

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GE4enJdW,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-03-08T02:13:23.773+0000)

fioea just have a low winrate in lower elo and less practiced players, her winrate with 125+ games played is 55%

Who cares? By 120 games, I imagine most people are gonna be winning a good deal with a champ they basically main.

hotarse1 votes

win rate is low because all her mains got big jumps in mmr pushing them up into territory they frankly don't belong in.

Sassmast3r1 votes

Fiora's winrate isn't even low though; it's actually in a pretty decent range for both ranked and normals. Not that winrates have massive impact on how I feel or the community should feel on a champion, as winrates only seriously mean anything if we're talking a SEVERE difference from other champions, drop from prior winrate, etcetera. Regardless, Fiora seems to be doing decently if we're talking statistics-wise and not realistically.

Don't even get me started on her actual kit though.

Spoofghoul1 votes

i just pick Heimerdinger into the Fiora

Then i build item 3146 and item 3116

cos fuck fiora just kite for days and heal while you do it

also dont forget to throw the stun when her lunge animation starts it helps alot

LatetotheRace1 votes

It's also because literally everyone wants to play her whether they're good or not.

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