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Rune Math Issue: Scaling Mana Regen Glyph Tier 3 beats flat too early.

TheLynx1··1 votes·6,616 views

So, I was just messing around with runes earlier when I noticed something odd I hadn't ever really paid attention to before.

There's Some weird math going on with one of the runes, specifically "Greater Glyph of Scaling Mana Regeneration".

Normally my experience has been that scaling runes overtake flat ones around level 6 or 9 depending on the rune's effect in question.

However, when I was being a math nerd on mana regen glyphs trying to optimize a support page, I noticed that the discrepancy between the scaling mana regen glyph and the flat one was kind of ridiculous. As I'm looking at it now, the flat regen glyph states that it gives a paltry 0.33 mana/5, while the scaling gives a massive 1.2/5 at level 18, nearly four times larger.

Doing the math, this means that the scaling rune doesn't just overtake the flat at level 6 (Some only overtake as late as level 11 or 12 as can be seen with armor and resistance quints, most do so around levels 8 and 9), but in fact is outpacing it before you even get your ultimate in lane, usually around 7 to 8 minutes into the game:

Level 1-18 Flat: 0.33/5

Level 1 Scale: 0.067/5 (The rune page shows it as 0.06 per level, but if you do the math, it is 0.067 ish) Level 2 Scale: 0.134/5 Level 3 Scale: 0.201/5 Level 4 Scale: 0.268/5 Level 5 Scale: 0.335/5 (Same or slightly higher than flat) Level 6 Scale: 0.402/5 (Already superior to flat, and only getting bigger)

I get that flats are supposed to fall off later and eventually scaling can be extremely useful if you drag it into late game, but for a scaling rune to overtake a flat rune before you're even halfway through laning phase is kind of ridiculous.

Anyone else got thoughts on this? Or perhaps other examples?

This is just one I found at random, I'm sure a thorough examination would reveal many more like it, where one rune type (Scale vs flat) is obviously way better than the other in terms of balance.

7 Comments

DarthSpectrum2 votes

I am surprised that you just noticed that now.

Most scaling runes ties or over takes their flat counterparts at level 5-6 (ie. Health). However, that doesn't mean they are more beneficial than flat runes for gameplay. The key weakness of scaling runes, and the reason why barely anyone uses them is because these stats are mediocre if you view them from a perspective of 6 levels into the game. Runes have the greatest impact early game, where they can flat out increase a stat by 10 to 20%. At level 6, 5 more health or AD isn't going to help you.

The same applies to late game. By then, most champions have enough items that a rune maybe increases a particular stat by 1% optimistically speaking. The early game advantage one loses out with flat runes is just too much to justify going for scaling ones.

TL DR: Scaling runes are nice, but they take too long for their effects to kick in. Even at late game, scaling runes barely provide any stats respective to the amount of stats items provide. Flat runes on the other hand drastically increase your early game power, allowing for faster gold gain.

Edit: You're right that one type of runes is way better than the other. It is Flat > Scaling in most scenarios, not the other way around.

TheLynx12 votes

Youre right to say that flat usually beats out scaling. I myself often use flat runes, especially on my carries damage stats.

Its also a fact that most scaling runes are usually redundant or simply not enough of a differential as items become more important.

However, I was simply noting that in terms of sheer mana value, this one case of scaling mana regen runes vs flat seems to comes down hard in favor of scaling, and the math shows it to be a rather early point that it overtakes it.

As to whether or not this matters in terms of game balance, I cant really say myself. I tend to rank only around mid silver (Though thats a completely different issue)

Champion Skin2 votes

Well the best late game runes... would probably be movement speed quints (movement speed is always useful and it is generally hard to buy) and maybe the % hp increase seals/quints.. though these can leave you rather vulnerable early game since base armor is kind of low... but maybe... it could possibly work out if you are against some who deals magic damage and won't auto attack you a lot... and you also scale really well with HP and want to stack a lot of it (or have really good base HP or something?)

Mathbalnase1 votes

Mana regen is a stat that is already far more valuable early than it is late, because of how base mana regen typically scales. This means that additional scaling mana regen is less valuable than other, similarly scaling stats that are more valuable late.

TheLynx11 votes

Even so for the scaling rune to be equivalent so early seems like as though it makes the flat rune basically useless, considering most lanes are hitting level 5 around 8 to 9 mins, with bot lane usually trailing behind by a minute or two.

If you're in a tense duel with your laning opponents (i know I've sometimes not backed before 9 mins, though it doesn't happen very often), the scaling rune could theoretically already be superior just after the 1st back.

Partholonian1 votes

Sometimes an OOM-related first blood IS the first back. Flat runes are all about getting snowballing going in your favor rather than against you, a benefit that can easily outweigh the benefits of scaling runes later.

Also, the early game is when you don't have items to boost your stats, so the things that can boost your stats early (i.e. runes) are much more valuable.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

Even so for the scaling rune to be equivalent so early seems like as though it makes the flat rune basically useless, considering most lanes are hitting level 5 around 8 to 9 mins, with bot lane usually trailing behind by a minute or two.

If you're in a tense duel with your laning opponents (i know I've sometimes not backed before 9 mins, though it doesn't happen very often), the scaling rune could theoretically already be superior just after the 1st back.

Flat mana regen runes are designed for use before your first back. If you can manage to get a kill as a result of the mana you received those runes (better yet first blood) then they have proven their worth. Their late game impact is minimal however. If you don't have early mana problems then you should go scaling if you want mana regen runes.

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