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Give Yorick´s pets constant update of the AD instead of how it works now. He feels horrible.

Sauronkaiser··33 votes·13,962 views

Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Yorick Wow, a Yorick main crying for Yorick buffs... well, now serious. Yorick has been in a decent-bad spot since this preseason. I wouldnt say the evolution of the game this months has affected him too much. Tanks and adcs dominate the game, thats nothing new and nearly all bruisers can pledge about that. But this incoming patch, if they release it that way, then its seriously time to compensate him a bit. He is being indirectly nerfed in a hard way, more than it seems. There are 2 reasons to say this:

First reason: Sterak changes. They want to change sterak´s total AD to bonus AD. What does this mean? it means Yoricks abilities will have exactly the same power with the item, BUT trinity will lose a 33% of its total power. Sterak´s upgrade to the total damage worked that way. Yorick is the champion with one of the highest total ADs in the game, and he is designed thinking in that exact combo of items. Trinity+Sterak has always been a core, specially after they changed Sterak to give more total damage. If you consider champions like Jax or Irelia will get nerfed cause of this change, Yorick will have even a bigger nerf because of the total AD numbers. So this change (wich i honestly dont understand) will indirectly nerf Yorick the most, a champion who is already struggling when it comes to high elo. His Q damage will be affected aprox. this way (in the case he is running only trinity+sterak wich is the optimal for much people): Before: 250 (base ad)+250 (ability damage) +440 (trinity+sterak damage)= 940 to this: after: 250 (base ad)+250 (ability damage) +300 (trinity damage cause sterak does not apply now)= 800 This every time you want to proc the trinity passive. Looking at it from the perspective of a champ who needs this sinergy to deal a consistent damage with his only real damage ability appart of his pets, its a giant nerf in long fights.

Second reason: Juggernaut items are now oriented to give damage additions when standing in a fight, wich is useless if the champion using them doesnt have constant AD updates in his abilities, and Yorick´s only ab wich does this is his Q. His ghouls and maiden get their AD updated every few seconds in a random way and they CANT CHANGE THEIR AD AFTER SUMMONED. Summoning them for a fight and then getting more AD from items or runes only beneficts Yoricks Q and autos, not his pets which are the main source of damage. Lets look at the new item, the Atma wich is clearly oriented to juggernauts. If you are using darius (riot´s favorite jugger) the sinergy is just perfect. You use your combo to get stacks and at the same time charge the passive of the item. After a few seconds, you get a massive amount of bonus AD (like 350 in a good case?), wich is automatically added to all your abilities scaling while the item inself gives damage and both types of resistance. This item also goes well with illaoi, garen, mundo... basically it goes well with juggernauts, champions who are designed to stay long times in a fight and be more powerfull when more time they stand there. Then why in the world Yorick, wich is also a juggernaut, is not allowed to get utility at this item..? Yorick build, as he was designed in his rework, was basically trinity-sterak-zzrot-tanky. After the zzrot rework (and changing yoricks passive to compensate it A LONG TIME AFTER) almost all mains stopped building it because of considering the item passive useless. After this, the build was just trinity-sterak-tank, and some people getting ad items like deathdance, but mainly this ones. So basically now they want to remove the only real sinergy he has in his build and give the champion nothing in exange to work with. My honest recomendations: 1: Make his passive so when ghouls and maiden are near him, their ADs get updated constantly with no delay after summoned (no need to update it if they are pushing alone far from him) 2: Give a little scaling buff to the Q wich now gets an important nerf, give it like 10% more scaling total AD. 3: Fix the E bug, the most important and annoying in the champ (Yorick mains know what im talking about...) 4: Nerf tanks (had to try it xd)

Hope you liked the post!

55 Comments

Hexs Fortune14 votes

I agree the pets should update to be compatible with temporary stat increases.

y0r1ck2 votes

I agree also but yorick will be broken

Sauronkaiser5 votes

{quoted}

I agree also but yorick will be broken

Using that logic every juggernaut should be broken next patch because they already do what im requesting. And trust me, yorick mains really DONT want him to get popular and broken because we couldnt play him as our niche. I only want to... well... use juggernaut items in a juggernaut. I dont think is that much.

Barcid1 votes

I don't think he means just because of the fighter item updates. Banner is getting a meaty change as well that transfers gold slain by promoted minions to the user - as well as increasing their attack speed and power by an enormous amount.

In other words, promote the cannon minions, farm two lanes at once, and force eternal pressure on the game. Do this when the enemy is sieging your team and you could very well take a tower just from them being distracted for a minute.

Sauronkaiser3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-24T21:58:40.947+0000)

I don't think he means just because of the fighter item updates. Banner is getting a meaty change as well that transfers gold slain by promoted minions to the user - as well as increasing their attack speed and power by an enormous amount.

In other words, promote the cannon minions, farm two lanes at once, and force eternal pressure on the game. Do this when the enemy is sieging your team and you could very well take a tower just from them being distracted for a minute.

Wait, we are crossing pushing power and dueling power there. Although having a good push/obetives taking potential should make a champion a bit worse in other aspects, what im saying is not to make him a beast. Im just requesting yorick to benefict from juggernaut items because of being one of them, also because this patch is a huge indirect nerf to him. And in the banner case, it already gave gold to the user, and the changes are not that good. I dont think ill build it.

Risen291 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-24T21:58:40.947+0000)

I don't think he means just because of the fighter item updates. Banner is getting a meaty change as well that transfers gold slain by promoted minions to the user - as well as increasing their attack speed and power by an enormous amount.

In other words, promote the cannon minions, farm two lanes at once, and force eternal pressure on the game. Do this when the enemy is sieging your team and you could very well take a tower just from them being distracted for a minute.

Banner is a crappy item on Yorick to begin with. He doesn't make good use of the stats and doesn't need the active. There's nothing about the banner that has any special synergy with Yorick over other fighters. You only see it built if someone wants to maximize pushing power at the expense of fighting power.

As someone also said, your post is also irrelevant because we're talking about Yorick's fighting power.

Barcid1 votes

My post was relevant to the topic of Yorick potentially being broken. I offered an explanation for why the belief goes, and banner's new buffing mechanism delivers on that - extremely strong minions early can cause him to create heavy pressure and dominate early, and the empowered minions now transfer gold to the person who empowered them. Yorick can basically farm two lanes at once and focus down two towers at once, that's the idea.

There's such a thing as side-conversations that happen in these threads. Maybe you should follow the conversation rather than just jumping into it willy nilly, hmm?

Risen291 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-25T20:12:02.924+0000)

My post was relevant to the topic of Yorick potentially being broken .... Yorick can basically farm two lanes at once and focus down two towers at once, that's the idea. ... extremely strong minions early can cause him to create heavy pressure and dominate early

It was irrelevant because you are ignorant of how Yorick works. He has no special synergy with that item, nor any particular reason to build it for it's stats. He already can use ghouls to push and farm a secondary lane, and he already pushes a turret down fast. Banner is a win more item at that point if you're already ahead. You don't actually need it to do anything.

It would be no more broken on Yorick than any other champion who decided to buy it and use it to farm two lanes at once. Thus, there is no special reason to make Yorick a dumpster tier dueler out of fear of what that item could do.

There's also no such thing as "early pressure" with banner when it's a third item buy at best. Nor is there such thing as "early pressure" of double pushing lanes when the lane phase is still going on. Your teammates wouldn't appreciate that.

Barcid1 votes

{quoted} It was irrelevant because you are ignorant of how Yorick works.

First of all, quite the assumption, and an ironic one at that. A split pusher would get nothing out of an item that increases the effectiveness of his splitpushing. Hum! What a completely controversial statement in how moronic that is! I never thought about how an item built to aid in splitpushing would offer absolutely nothing for a splitpusher.

It could be because you're looking at Yorick purely 1-dimensionally - a straight line. That his only proper build is as a duelist. Meanwhile I've seen players successfully build him to splitpush with banner/zz'rot and it works just fine so long as their team holds our attention for longer than 10 seconds. Teamwork makes the dream work, as it were, and eternal pressure is worth more than you'd care to give it credit for.

You'll also notice at no point did I say that Yorick deserved to be a dumpster tier dueler. All I said is that he's probably going to be broken upcoming patch for more than just one reason - but since Neanderthals tend to want to jump to conclusions as soon as they can grasp them, I can understand why you decided to just make the massive assumptions that you did. That's my bad, I shouldn't have overestimated you like I did. My apologies.

I am curious, however, as to what makes you a Yorick expert in this case. Please. Enlighten me. Would you be willing to fill me in on all your Yorick-based exploits and detail me out every strategy in the book? Or would you like to spout some more Twitch streamer phrases and claims at me before they inevitably change within the next week? Because something tells me that you're not bringing any of these claims as first-hand experience, or even as observational experience.

Risen291 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=00010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-26T05:54:03.453+0000)

A split pusher would get nothing out of an item that increases the effectiveness of his splitpushing.

Logical fallacy, avoiding the issue. I gave many points why your claim was wrong, and you made no attempt to address any of them.

Here they are quoted for you: _ He has no special synergy with that item, nor any particular reason to build it for it's stats. He already can use ghouls to push and farm a secondary lane, and he already pushes a turret down fast. Banner is a win more item at that point if you're already ahead. You don't actually need it to do anything. It would be no more broken on Yorick than any other champion who decided to buy it and use it to farm two lanes at once. Thus, there is no special reason to make Yorick a dumpster tier dueler out of fear of what that item could do. There's also no such thing as "early pressure" with banner when it's a third item buy at best. Nor is there such thing as "early pressure" of double pushing lanes when the lane phase is still going on. Your teammates wouldn't appreciate that. _

Adding on to that: In your ignorance of Yorick, you make the mistake of thinking that just because a character is played as a split pusher that they have some inherent synergy with banner. That is completely wrong. Tyrndamere is often played exclusively as a split pusher by people but you never see him building banner. You don't see Nasus building them. There is nothing Yorick can do with those two items that another juggernaut can't do with it.

The fact is, pros and top yorick players generally never build either banner or zzrot. It's unnecessary because he can already take towers without it. And it doesn't synergize with any of his stats so it ends up detracting from his ability to effectively duel by giving up better items.

It could be because you're looking at Yorick purely 1-dimensionally - a straight line. That his only proper build is as a duelist.

You can't split push as an effective strategy without being capable of 1vs1ing anyone on the enemy team. That is a defining attribute of what makes someone capable of split pushing as opposed to just farming an unoccupied lane.

All I said is that he's probably going to be broken upcoming patch for more than just one reason

Logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Merely stating something doesn't make it true.

You have given no logical reasoning as to why we should think Yorick would be overpowered with the changes. Yet others here with experience and game knowledge have given you many reasons why he will be hurt by the upcoming changes.

Barcid1 votes

{quoted}

Logical fallacy

This phrase - you clearly don't understand what it means at all.

So to break the champion down into terms that you can finally stand to grasp, I will read the items off just for you since, well, apparently reading's difficult for you.

Banner offers 60 armor with 10% CDR and 30 magic resistance, along with bonus health regen to boot. Yorick - a champion that tends to build bulk over damage - gets two defenses boosted on top of the 10% CDR, which for a champion heavily reliant upon his ultimate tends to be a very key thing to look for.

Already everything works with Yorick. Every one of those stats is something Yorick is going to be looking for. Are they massive stat boosts? No, but the secondary effect makes up for this: Point runner: builds up to 20% bonus movement speed over 2 seconds while near turrets, fallen turrets, and void gates.

What this does is effectively allows Yorick to be in the right place at the right time on demand - he can push where he needs to be pushing anytime, anywhere. It increases his reliability in his job as well as allowing him a way out in a lot of cases since it's pretty difficult to catch up to somebody speeding away with that much of an MS boost.

So already you've proven that you not only don't have a clue what the item even does to begin with, but you know literally nothing about what you're talking about. You've not played Yorick regularly nor do you even understand what the champion should be looking for. You also show no ability to think about macroplay and how certain effects can be massive boons besides just the usual binary.

But hey, you probably get tired of hearing how clueless you are all the time, so let's move on to just every other thing that's wrong with your statements:

On the subject of Yorick being able to outduel other champions and needing items for it: he outduels the vast majority of the roster right after Trinity Force with the only stipulation being that they can't be fed to hell. Have you legitimately never played Yorick? You know, the premiere lane bully? The one Riven and Renekton dream they were? Yorick's only competition as far as bullying goes is Mordekaiser, and the two are both generally dealt with the same exact way - gank the shit out of them or just clear well enough that they don't take the tower immediately. Implying Yorick needs more than one item to effectively do his job is just absolutely telling about your knowledge of the subject.

On the subject of your other split pushers: straight splitpushing Nasus can actually be found building Banner, especially if he has absolutely no interest in grouping with his team. Considering Nasus rips down turrets with minimal need for damage items to begin with - Sheen usually does the job - and his ultimate is a straight stat-checker, Nasus' synergy with Banner is actually surprisingly high, especially since, once again, Nasus makes critical use of CDR. Considering Nasus also already gains bonus health from his ultimate, the flat bonuses to his resistances are made much greater through effective health. If you don't know what that is, just look it up. I'm already babying you enough as it is.

Tryndamere doesn't ever build it because Tryndamere builds for crit, which is a dedicated build - you don't half-ass a crit build. There's a reason that ADC's rarely build strictly defensive items besides boots, and it's because crit as a stat heavily relies upon two other stats in addition to crit itself - attack speed and attack damage. Double your attack damage doesn't mean much if your AD is low, and having crit at all doesn't mean much if your attack speed is too low to make effective use of auto-attacks. These stats are also spread out amongst a variety of items, so most of Trynd's build is going to be strictly dedicated to acquiring those items. This takes up most of his item slots, so Trynd's never going to see the item used.

And then on the subject of "argument by assertion" - my god you don't even know what an assertion is. This list is ever-expanding. An assertion would imply that there is no possibility of the statement being false - "Yorick will be broken" is an assertion. "Yorick never builds banner of command" is another one - oh wait, you made that one. Guess I should call you out on it in a way that makes me look like a cockface, huh? Look, I'm just like you! What I offered is a theoretical statement - Yorick will probably be broken with these changes due to this, this, and this. That is a theory. It's all theoretical until the changes actually drop. But judging by everything else you've said so far, I'm not surprised you've confused the two.

The fact is, pros and top players --

So funny enough, not only did I know you were going to use this argument - and I legitimately fucking called it, like holy shit I must be an oracle or you're just that predictable - this one actually is a logical fallacy. The "fact" that pros and top players don't build the item on Yorick has literally no bearing on whether or not the item has any synergy with Yorick. In fact, Guinsoo's for a long time had synergy with many champions strictly speaking, but was pretty lackluster for a couple reasons: One, its unique stacks gave flat number bonuses, which with the change to a % increase based upon total (bonus for AD) stats, allowed the item to flourish much more effectively into the end-game. Number two, and I need you to follow me on this one: the item was fucking expensive. Trying to build for Rageblade was generally just stupid due to the fact that you would be largely forgoing most of the other necessities that would have to go along with the item (more AS to reliably stack it, bulk for melee users) in order to even afford the item in a timely manner. The item was consequentially considered lackluster even though it synergized great with champions like Xin Zhao and Jax. So the item sat on champions that really needed it out of necessity rather than as a core item competitive with other items.

Rageblade got the changes and the item got to be one of multiple changes that broke the meta for a few weeks. Point is, just because an item isn't built on a champion doesn't mean it doesn't offer synergy - in most cases, the item just isn't strong enough or takes too much time, or is even just situational. Youmuu's is an example of an item that was popular for no fucking reason for a while way back when for the sole reason that pros built it - and people lost hard with it, because the item wasn't actually that great. What it did was helped snowball a lead or helped maintain a lead by allowing fed champions to run from lost battles or quickly make catches and preventing escape. Was to be built as a first build item exclusively, and people ignored that little stipulation because "the pros built it".

So as a whole: that argument is generally dog-shit unless you understand the asterisks that are lined up directly after the statement.

Now onto the final point, and you should really try your best to grasp this concept because it's very simple and even that may make it too complicated for you (unfortunately I really am not the person to just show pictures and grunt at them like you must be accustomed to):

#Banner is getting changed next fucking patch.

Your entire argument is completely irrelevant due to this single point because you have literally only argued against current banner, and even that was ineffective. If your original argument had just been "Nobody builds Banner unless their team is already ahead and they want additional pressure", that would have been actually true - current Banner is an aggressively okay item that feeds off of teams being inattentive and sending the wrong person to kill promoted minions. Even then, the minions didn't actually do much damage to turrets and were pretty much weaker baron minions.

#But. That still has no relevance because that would be old banner again.

New Banner increases the damage these minions do to turrets by 100% on top of their damage buffs as well as 70% total damage reduction from champions. Good job, you now have an actual super minion very early in the game. This is all calculated after bonus stats. This means that Banner can actually effectively stifle an enemy team when used early, and the 100% increased damage to turrets effectively means that a siege minion attacking with Yorick at base damage already nets him around twice as much damage to turrets as Yorick currently gets from Sterakk's - it is effectively a versatile replacement meant for splitpushing, and honestly using your own logic against you, is a more consistent damage dealer than Yorick's own minions and Maiden who don't update their stats.

But you know what. I really don't even need to bother with most of this. I'll just use you as a puppet to argue against yourself.

You only see it built if someone wants to maximize pushing power at the expense of fighting power.

Oh hey. Look. A contradiction in your arguments. If I'm aiming to split-push better, I would take an item you openly admitted maximizes that strength.

It's almost like you don't actually think before jumping into the conversation.

Risen291 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-27T01:38:22.599+0000)

This phrase - you clearly don't understand what it means at all.

Logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Merely stating something doesn't make it true. You never attempt to demonstrate why my use of logical fallacies was inaccurate.

Banner offers 60 armor with 10% CDR and 30 magic resistance, along with bonus health regen to boot. Yorick - a champion that tends to build bulk over damage - gets two defenses boosted on top of the 10% CDR, which for a champion heavily reliant upon his ultimate tends to be a very key thing to look for.

This is where you only dig the hole of your Yorick ignorance deeper, by not realizing why it has no special synergy with Yorick. Yorick doesn't scale with resistances, but health. And if he wants resistances there are far more useful and synergistic options available like deadmans and visage.

There's a reason top Yorick players generally don't build banner. You need to deal with that fact and come to terms with why that is.

I can tell you why: A Yorick who builds banner is choosing to take an inferior item to maximize pushing power, which really is redundant by that point anyway considering how much pushing power he already has. You "can" do it, if you're fed and ahead anyway why not, but you don't need to. And you sacrifice your dueling power to do it.

What this does is effectively allows Yorick to be in the right place at the right time on demand - he can push where he needs to be pushing anytime, anywhere.

You haven't disproved my original point. Which I can quote for you: It would be no more broken on Yorick than any other champion who decided to buy it and use it to farm two lanes at once.

There's a big failure in your logic underlying everything you try to argue - You think this is unqiue to Yorick. You could make the same argument for any split pushing juggernaut or skirmisher. You even try to argue that Nasus sometimes builds it for that same reason.
There is no special synergy with this item on Yorick. Anyone who wants to take turrets faster can use it the same way. It actually makes the least sense to build it on the guy who needs it the least to push towers effectively, which is why most top Yorick players don't.

The "fact" that pros and top players don't build the item on Yorick has literally no bearing on whether or not the item has any synergy with Yorick.

It already factually doesn't have synergy with Yorick by looking at the stats, as I already established.

The fact that top and pro players don't build it is just further evidence of that fact. They know what they are doing on Yorick - you don't.

Barcid1 votes

You failed to address the vast majority of the argument, all your points were ostensibly weak by comparison, you used the same points to try and re-argue a point I already disproved, and you're so ignorant of how the game itself works as a base as well as how Yorick works as a champion that this has become tiresome and boring.

Feel free to continue wallowing in your ignorance. Once you finally hit adult age you'll probably gain that critical thinking you so desperately need, but until then, ta-ta.

Risen291 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=000100000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-27T03:59:37.090+0000)

You failed to address the vast majority of the argument,

You're confusing bulk of wordage with having a vast amount of real valid arguments. Most of your massive screed was irrelevent babbling, so I just focused in on the parts that were actually relevent to the issue you're trying to contest.

you used the same points to try and re-argue a point I already disproved,

The reason I re-quote the same thing for you is because you never attempted to refute it. In most cases you either commit the logical fallacy of argument by assertion, irrelevant conclusion, or ignoring the point.

Go ahead and quote what you think disproved my statements. Chances are it doesn't, because you haven't shown yourself to have a firm grasp on what logical discourse looks like.

y0r1ck1 votes

Sure. all I'm saying is that if ghouls update in real time with ad increases, then yorick will be broken.

CHEWYARMS7 votes

I've been waiting for this post as another Yorick main. The subreddit has been blowing up sense the announcement of the sterak nerfs.

Personally his early game seems weak; ghouls hardly do any thing on their own and for a combo that takes quite a bit of set up it's annoying to watch them melt and tickle the opponent in lane.

Someone else mentioned it on Reddit but I'd prefer some of the power shifted from his Q to his ghouls, and since his Q is being indirectly nerf I'd say compensate it with a ghoul damage buff somehow.

GhaelWinds1 votes

{quoted}

I've been waiting for this post as another Yorick main. The subreddit has been blowing up sense the announcement of the sterak nerfs.

Personally his early game seems weak; ghouls hardly do any thing on their own and for a combo that takes quite a bit of set up it's annoying to watch them melt and tickle the opponent in lane.

Someone else mentioned it on Reddit but I'd prefer some of the power shifted from his Q to his ghouls, and since his Q is being indirectly nerf I'd say compensate it with a ghoul damage buff somehow.

His early game seems weak to you? I can usually manage to win lane barring constant ganks.

I like the idea of more ghoul power. But if they do that I do want their ai more tuned. Because if most of my power is on this ghoul that may or may not do what I want it becomes mildly frustrating.

Dreamer5294 votes

This was actually recently brought up in the chat with the recent chat with the playtest team!

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/teIymOoE-pbe-chat-with-the-playtest-team-811?comment=0037000000000000

Sauronkaiser3 votes

{quoted}

This was actually recently brought up in the chat with the recent chat with the playtest team!

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/teIymOoE-pbe-chat-with-the-playtest-team-811?comment=0037000000000000

Didn´t saw that, but in my eyes they are not talking about making the ghouls update their AD in real time when they are near Yorick, but make them update it constantly BEFORE being summoned. So basically it will be almost the same.

BEK Makadur2 votes

I think it is pretty clear, that it is a bug for them and that will they fix it so they will update the AD in real time. After summon.

Sauronkaiser1 votes

{quoted}

I think it is pretty clear, that it is a bug for them and that will they fix it so they will update the AD in real time. After summon.

Yes, i realized. I just missunderstood the comment of the rioter who said this. I hope they release the fix this patch already, cant wait to use conqueror and atmas on yorick.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Yorick's winrate in global diamond plus is below 40%, yikes.

Jon 6789101 votes

{quoted}

Yorick's winrate in global diamond plus is below 40%, yikes.

Where are you seeing this?

GhaelWinds2 votes

As a yorick player: What e bug?

Also uhm I never go steraks. I find titanic to be superior in all ways. You get more damage on his Q with titanic anyway with just the passive. Just build titanic second when the patch drops it's not that bad I promise. He doesn't need the Q buff.

Yes to the constant ad checking. Conq yorick gets annoying since you have to proc the conq and then summon maiden to get the best bang for your buck.

As for Atmas... I don't know how good it will be for yorick? I would maybe take it for conq yorick but grasp yorick is a rather bursty actually so atmas might not be super great.

Really what I want for Yorick is for damage decay to be non-existent and for ghouls that are in lane combat to have the same speed as the lane minions. Those are all he really needs imo.

Sauronkaiser3 votes

{quoted}

As a yorick player: What e bug?

Also uhm I never go steraks. I find titanic to be superior in all ways. You get more damage on his Q with titanic anyway with just the passive. Just build titanic second when the patch drops it's not that bad I promise. He doesn't need the Q buff.

Yes to the constant ad checking. Conq yorick gets annoying since you have to proc the conq and then summon maiden to get the best bang for your buck.

As for Atmas... I don't know how good it will be for yorick? I would maybe take it for conq yorick but grasp yorick is a rather bursty actually so atmas might not be super great.

Really what I want for Yorick is for damage decay to be non-existent and for ghouls that are in lane combat to have the same speed as the lane minions. Those are all he really needs imo.

The E bug happens sometimes and i cant really find the reason. It just makes the ghouls to not jump at the enemy at hitting the E, they just get the aggro of the objetive, the exclamation symbol on them and run to him but they dont jump, wich is annoying af cause their damage got capped in low levels just because of giving them a free auto at jumping.

In the hydra case, theres a lot of different opinions from mains. Some say its a good item, others is situational and others is just bad. Im in the middle group. Its expensive, gives low damage, the minion clean is not really necesary in a champ who can afk push, no real sinergy with other items and the passive is mostly oriented to attack speed champions. Probably it becomes better after the patch where they make it cheapier but i dont think ill include it on my build.

GhaelWinds1 votes

{quoted}

The E bug happens sometimes and i cant really find the reason. It just makes the ghouls to not jump at the enemy at hitting the E, they just get the aggro of the objetive, the exclamation symbol on them and run to him but they dont jump, wich is annoying af cause their damage got capped in low levels just because of giving them a free auto at jumping.

In the hydra case, theres a lot of different opinions from mains. Some say its a good item, others is situational and others is just bad. Im in the middle group. Its expensive, gives low damage, the minion clean is not really necesary in a champ who can afk push, no real sinergy with other items and the passive is mostly oriented to attack speed champions. Probably it becomes better after the patch where they make it cheapier but i dont think ill include it on my build.

Oh that thing. I just always considered that a ghoul bug. To which there are many.

I like titanic because once you get to level (14? 16?) when it takes 4 minions to get the default grave you can clear a wave in two Qs and get the free grave giving like a 3 second time to clear wave and get 3 ghouls. That's useful for titanic. The aa reset on towers is nice. The aa reset on champions to get the maiden max health proc if you're between aas is nice. The health as damage thing is also nice. I also just have a general vendetta against steraks for no reason. sooo I'm probably biased.

DragonShea2 votes

As a Yorick main, that shit needs to happen because I'd rather have a Yorick with ghouls that scale with his AD than to wait for me to have max AD before summoning them. The tech is there because his ghouls have 300 MS and their damage is reduced to 40% when yorick is not near them, so I don't understand why He shouldn't be constant AD.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

I'd support this change for my boy, Yorick (he was the reason I chose top more often)

Cryotron1 votes

Jesus.

If what you say about Sterak's Gage affecting Triforce is true, then Yorick does needs some compensation. Not to mention you stated that his minions don't update when he has his growing attack damage like Atma's then Yorick needs some huge updates towards his kit.

Now that I think about it, currently I think Yorick does feel horrible with his kit: His ult CD is very long for what it does (An AI split push), derpy AI ghouls, derpy Maiden who runs off into the lane that suicides but hey that's what she does I guess, I know about E bug and it really annoys me too, most of his kit relies on his minions and not only that landing your E is very crucial for Yorick which is a big weakness. His W feels good though, it's a strong utility.

Yorick does bring some interesting utilities unlike other champions. A juggernaut who summons minions that specializes in lane pushing with damage and utility, a force to be reckoned with. Now I kinda see why he is not picked in the competitive tournies, he seems undertuned in terms of new things that's coming up.

These are my opinions though... :( I hope Yorick would be still fine after those items. Shojin looks busted though... busted as MissFortune,Sona,Evelynn,Ahri, etc .

Jon 6789101 votes

Yorick has been in a decent-bad spot since this preseason.

At the start of preseason, Yorick was actually one of the top picks. He got a nerf to his base AD and it went downhill from there.

Tanks and adcs dominate the game

Would you mind telling me which tanks have been dominating the game outside of Sion?

That being said, I do think they'll need to compensate Yorick, but I don't think he's the only one who'll be weak after the change.

Sauronkaiser2 votes

Hes the one getting the biggest hit. The sterak changes affect his trinity more than any other trinity user, and also, think that champs like jax or irelia have some bonus-AD scalings wich sterak used to not benefict and now it does, but in Yoricks case its exactly the same cause hes balanced around total-AD ratios.

[{quoted}](name=Jon 678910,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-05-24T20:25:41.377+0000)

Where are you seeing this?

Check any stadistics page, diamond+. Yoricks winrate there is never up from 45% and sometimes reaches 40%...

Jon 6789101 votes

{quoted}

Hes the one getting the biggest hit. The sterak changes affect his trinity more than any other trinity user, and also, think that champs like jax or irelia have some bonus-AD scalings wich sterak used to not benefict and now it does, but in Yoricks case its exactly the same cause hes balanced around total-AD ratios.

Check any stadistics page, diamond+. Yoricks winrate there is never up from 45% and sometimes reaches 40%...

Lolalytics has him at 48.7% for diamond+, while OP.GG has him at 50.62% (that's platinum though), which is why I asked. I'm not worried about Jax or Irelia, since Irelia could especially use the nerfs. I'm more worried about Gangplank, since he only has a bonus AD ratio on his passive. Sure, it's more than Yorick, but it's still not much.

SwiftKitten881 votes

i will be willing to accept this if you the yorik player tells me how the fuck i am supposed go fight a yorik. cause i still cant figure how wtf am suppoed to do vs him when i gank top as Nidalee . not concerned about the wall, i can pounce over that.. but damn... how the hell do u stop him from splitting

Sauronkaiser1 votes

{quoted}

i will be willing to accept this if you the yorik player tells me how the fuck i am supposed go fight a yorik. cause i still cant figure how wtf am suppoed to do vs him when i gank top as Nidalee . not concerned about the wall, i can pounce over that.. but damn... how the hell do u stop him from splitting

Look at the map, force 5v4 when hes splitting and evade direct 1v1 if hes feed. Hes not that different from trynda, but hes slower at push and stonger in getting towers. Also yorick pets dont reduce tower resistances when near them so he needs the minions and if you clean them he cant damage it.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Look at the map, force 5v4 when hes splitting and evade direct 1v1 if hes feed. Hes not that different from trynda, but hes slower at push and stonger in getting towers. Also yorick pets dont reduce tower resistances when near them so he needs the minions and if you clean them he cant damage it.

so what your saying... is... you CAN'T stop his splitpush, and u either need to attempt to trade towers or somehow force a 5v4 which this team can easily avoid just by not engaging?

how exactly is that fair?

i understand the conept of a splitpush... it is to split up the enemy team and to force them to stop it but whars your saying is... you CAN'T reply to his splitpush by stopping it because doing so is impossible to do with 1 champion.

you cant "force a 5v4" any enemy team with half a bain can stop you from forcing a fight is they have proper wards.

i asked you "how do u FIGHT a yorik" and your answer is "you cant fight a yorik"

if that is indeed the case.. i fail to see why on earth he needs compensation buffs

Sauronkaiser1 votes

{quoted}

so what your saying... is... you CAN'T stop his splitpush, and u either need to attempt to trade towers or somehow force a 5v4 which this team can easily avoid just by not engaging?

how exactly is that fair?

i understand the conept of a splitpush... it is to split up the enemy team and to force them to stop it but whars your saying is... you CAN'T reply to his splitpush by stopping it because doing so is impossible to do with 1 champion.

you cant "force a 5v4" any enemy team with half a bain can stop you from forcing a fight is they have proper wards.

i asked you "how do u FIGHT a yorik" and your answer is "you cant fight a yorik"

if that is indeed the case.. i fail to see why on earth he needs compensation buffs

what the... well, using that logic, tryndamere, jax or even yi are op as hell because they also are splitpushers, who are better in 1v1 than yorick and have more escapes than him (basically they work better at this job). Yorick has not AoE damage except the shitty damage of his E, he is oriented to 1v1, and because of being a juggernaut he cant escape so its fair he is strong in this aspect. If he hadnt this advantages he would be literally useless. And i didnt said you cant fight yorick, i said you should not fight him in 1v1 if he is feed since you would be trying to kill a 1v1 based champion in a situation in wich he has the advantage, but you can go in team and he will be in clear problems. Also, duelist champions are usually stronger than him and considered as a bad matchup by yorick players, such as yasuo, fiora, tryndamete, jax, riven or even renekton. A yorick cant push properly a lane if one of those champs is in the game and they are not very behind.

Splitpush is a game mechanic that works much better when lower is the elo. Search for guides to counter it and youll counter yorick. If you want to fight yorick directly, think on him as a darius with less resistance but more tools to kite and a better 1v1 in terms of damage. And dont understimate his ghouls and dont forget steraks give him a giant shield that can confuse players thinking hes going to die when he can yet tank a lot.

DragonShea1 votes

One think I would like to see added to Yorick is stronger AA's Since He builds Tri-Force and doesn't have a strong source of damage outside his ghouls or Q and they are unreliable as they die fast. unlike other juggs his cycle of power is too reliant his ghouls it's out of his control more so than other juggs. If he had some ability that caused his AA's to either deal a small amount of Dot damage or have deal extra damage when his Q is on CD, something that allows him to duel a bit better without ghouls.

Sauronkaiser1 votes

{quoted}

One think I would like to see added to Yorick is stronger AA's Since He builds Tri-Force and doesn't have a strong source of damage outside his ghouls or Q and they are unreliable as they die fast. unlike other juggs his cycle of power is too reliant his ghouls it's out of his control more so than other juggs. If he had some ability that caused his AA's to either deal a small amount of Dot damage or have deal extra damage when his Q is on CD, something that allows him to duel a bit better without ghouls.

He is a necromancer. He needs ghouls to be at 100%. Until now, Q with trinity and sterak had like +900 damage by themselves. I never though he needed more potential while being alone.

FabWarlock1 votes

Let me comment again. I think if Yorick got buffs to damage, since he can build purely tanky it would make him very broken. This happened with Gnar as well when they buffed him. Maybe there could be some QoL buffs to Yorick, but I would be very upset if he got damage increases, since it's not really fair that he should be able to do a lot of damage and be super tanky becuase of what his buildpath is. Just my two cents as a midlaner who doesn't want to have to deal with tanks/juggernauts becoming even more meta.

Also, I would be very happy if Yorick's ghouls were a bit easier to target. Their target box is extremely small, and it's a bit hard to kill them when they are in melee range of me, and sometimes feels like they're untargetable for an auto attack.

Sauronkaiser1 votes

{quoted}

Let me comment again. I think if Yorick got buffs to damage, since he can build purely tanky it would make him very broken. This happened with Gnar as well when they buffed him. Maybe there could be some QoL buffs to Yorick, but I would be very upset if he got damage increases, since it's not really fair that he should be able to do a lot of damage and be super tanky becuase of what his buildpath is. Just my two cents as a midlaner who doesn't want to have to deal with tanks/juggernauts becoming even more meta.

Also, I would be very happy if Yorick's ghouls were a bit easier to target. Their target box is extremely small, and it's a bit hard to kill them when they are in melee range of me, and sometimes feels like they're untargetable for an auto attack.

Very tanky and doing a lot of damage... well, he IS a juggernaut, thats basically what juggers do. Look at darius, morde, garen, illaoi, mundo... They all are champions who have a lot of damage, a lot of resistance (not only with items, but also shields and heals) and they get stronger when standing long time in a fight. In exange, they dont have a competent movility or cc (look at morde, literally 0 of them) so they depend of seize situations in order to do things right. In yoricks case, he has a movespeed buff and a circular wall and also he is a beast in getting towers, so in exange he doesnt have competent heals or shields and his teamfighting is shit, making him 1v1 oriented and not that good even at that, being sterak´s passive and his stats the only thing that makes him tanky. And i think you are missunderstanding juggernauts with tanks. As i said, juggers have good resistance and good damage (and most of them need to build some damage items, so they are not as tanky as pure tanks), while actual tanks have a better resistance, a lot of cc/movility and, by logic, they shouldnt deal an important damage, but the game is balanced around them and its not weird to see an ornn or maokai overtrading a juggernaut.

About the hitbox of the ghouls... ye thats right but i dont see any way to fairy make them easier to target...

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Let me comment again. I think if Yorick got buffs to damage, since he can build purely tanky it would make him very broken. This happened with Gnar as well when they buffed him. Maybe there could be some QoL buffs to Yorick, but I would be very upset if he got damage increases, since it's not really fair that he should be able to do a lot of damage and be super tanky becuase of what his buildpath is. Just my two cents as a midlaner who doesn't want to have to deal with tanks/juggernauts becoming even more meta.

Also, I would be very happy if Yorick's ghouls were a bit easier to target. Their target box is extremely small, and it's a bit hard to kill them when they are in melee range of me, and sometimes feels like they're untargetable for an auto attack.

Having one of the highest base hp grow, highest AD grow and in general, having insane Base stats overall. Yorick doesn't really need more damage(well He does but not an insane amount) but QoL stuff as well as more reliable sustain. Yorick builds tanky but doesn't have a scaling HP heal like most juggs do.

Risen291 votes

{quoted}

Let me comment again. I think if Yorick got buffs to damage, since he can build purely tanky it would make him very broken.

Just because you think it doesn't make it true. Give some data or reasoning as to why we should believe that would be the case.

As it stands, Yorick isn't that good and he's going to get a huge nerf to his damage with the steraks change.

What makes it worse is that the compensation items give to juggernauts (atmas) don't actually work properly with Yorick who has so much of his damage offloaded into his pets.

This happened with Gnar as well when they buffed him.

Invalid comparison. Gnar is completely different in his design.

Gnar combines ranged lane bully with teamfight tank, complete with mobility/engage. He does everything well with no real downsides so anytime you up his numbers too far he is just flat out better than anything else in top lane.

Yorick is in a completely different circumstance. As a juggernaut he has clear downsides and upsides, to the point where he is almost too predictable. You can buff his damage without him getting out of control because of the downsides he still has to abuse.

But "buff" is the wrong word here. We are just talking about proper compensation for Steraks no longer working with trinity force. On top of the fact that Riot specifically took away some of his base AD in order to tone down the power of his trinity+steraks combo.

Taking all that away with nothing to compensate leaves him drastically worse off than he currently is, and much worse off compared to how other juggernauts will be performing with atmas.

Koechophe1 votes

If you read on one of the recent PBE chats, this feature is being worked on and will be shipped soon:

[{quoted}](name=Riot Endstep,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=teIymOoE,comment-id=0037000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-22T02:52:25.881+0000)

To get back to you: Sol was in today, and we had a brief discussion about Yorick. He's going to treat the ghouls/Maiden not updating their AD as a bug and he's looking to get a fix in, not sure when it'll be done or ship but he does want to make the change.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Sauronkaiser1 votes

{quoted}

If you read on one of the recent PBE chats, this feature is being worked on and will be shipped soon:

{quoted}

Someone already told me

This was actually recently brought up in the chat with the recent chat with the playtest team!

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/teIymOoE-pbe-chat-with-the-playtest-team-811?comment=0037000000000000

{quoted}

This was my response. They dont specify what they are doing exacly and im afraid its not the same im saying.

Didn´t saw that, but in my eyes they are not talking about making the ghouls update their AD in real time when they are near Yorick, but make them update it constantly BEFORE being summoned. So basically it will be almost the same.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

As a Yorick main I do not know of this E bug you speak of.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

As a Yorick main I do not know of this E bug you speak of.

I think that he is referring to when the ghouls don't jump when they are too close to their target.

Sauronkaiser1 votes

{quoted}

As a Yorick main I do not know of this E bug you speak of.

/

{quoted} As a yorick player: What e bug?

Already got that question. If you main yorick its almost sure you suffered it in any moment but you didnt realize.

{quoted}

The E bug happens sometimes and i cant really find the reason. It just makes the ghouls to not jump at the enemy at hitting the E, they just get the aggro of the objetive, the exclamation symbol on them and run to him but they dont jump, wich is annoying af cause their damage got capped in low levels just because of giving them a free auto at jumping.

Im NOT refering to when they are too near to the objetive. Ir happens when they are in any distance in the jump range.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

I don't think I've ever experienced this honestly. They've always worked just fine for me. Maybe that's why I made it so far with him, never got the bug xP

Risen291 votes

Yorick will be trash after the Trinity+Steraks change if they don't change his ghouls to dynamically update AD based on atmas scaling.

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