I miss how strategic this game used to be

LazyW0lf·12/4/2018, 4:35:33 PM·124 votes·19,852 views

Back a couple seasons ago there were clear champion picks and comps you could draft, and most were viable. I think I'm remembering a patch or so before the Juggernaut update. It was bliss.

Top lane, you could pick what you wanted; Something like Jayce/Renekton for early game comps, Vlad/Rumble for carry oriented mid-game focus, or tanks for the late game teamfights. The choice mattered to fill a gap within your team comp, or if you were an early pick, could choose to be the teams carry.

For Jungle you could fill the gaps where you needed it; AP, AD, Bruiser, Tanky, you could play it all and still be useful if you played well. If you played a tanky jungler, it wouldn't matter if you got invaded because you had the raw stats to survive long enough for your team to come back you up. If you had a volatile matchup somewhere, you could pick an early game champion like Lee and be there to help faster at the sacrifice of being outscaled late game.

Mid lane; Too much AP in Vlad top and Grag jungle? Team relies on late game heavily? Need some late game? Need some burst? Need some extra CC? We got it all here, as long as it does damage and waveclear it has a home mid lane. Not everything here was META of course, but not many picks were entirely useless either because they had their strengths and weaknesses.

ADC; Team drafted carries? Grab some utility in Ashe, Varus. Wombo-Combo heavy team? Twitch/MF. No late game threats? You've got your choice of hypercarries. Facing a bunch of divers? Ez/Lucian/(Pre RW)Graves. You have your choice of picks with clear strengths and weaknesses. META here is really dependent on your team comp unless something is busted beyond belief (Kog/Lulu ardent meta).

Support; Lacking some tanks? Need some peel for your carries? No engage? No disengage? Too many tanks? You literally have so many options to choose from here, you can play to your own playstyle.

What's the state of the game right now? Whoever can get their cooldowns off first of course! Bursty, mobile carries are everywhere. Tank stats don't matter because Riot's philosophy of the game is that offense should outscale defense, the only time it matters is if you get fed and can become tanky before carries get damage. If you compare a full build tank to a full build carry, the carry can usually dispatch the tank within seconds.

Now obviously it makes sense that a carry can kill a tank you say! Well of course it makes sense, but what's the point of building tanky if you cannot lock down this carry long enough for YOUR carries to come kill them. As a tank, you should be living long enough to get multiple rotations of your cd's off in a teamfight. That's how tanks generate threat in a PVP game, CC/Disruption, since most players are smart enough to realize putting dps into a tank isn't worth it. Unfortunately, this is not the case in recent seasons. CC has been reduced and TTK has decreased, leading to a tank not being actually tanky enough to survive long enough to dish out multiple rotations in a teamfight. Tanks have been phased out by bruisers because damage is the only thing that counters damage, and Riot has been solidifying this mentality by buffing tanks DAMAGE instead of touching their CD's or CC duration.

During champ select, you used to have to think about the comp you were drafting. If you had no late game, you were hoping you could get a lead early and roll with it. All AD/AP team was basically an autoloss because tanks were tanky and having full Armor/MR was a godsend for tanks. Not having an early game made your team a pushover when it came to neutral objectives. Not having peel made the carries have to play incredibly safe. Not having a tank meant having a teamfight disadvantage. Champion picks didn't matter as much as it does now as long as you could fill a role your team needed and your target selection was good. Every champion had their time in the spotlight because games lasted 40-50 minutes, long enough for each champion pick to make an impact in their designed powerspike and reach full build if the game hadn't been taken over already.

Nowadays players can decide games from champ select a majority of the time. Champs keep getting into a broken state because of some balance patch and the only way to deal with the problem is to kill that champion because tanks can't lock them down long enough for carries to kill them. It used to be good advice to build tanky when behind, but now it doesn't even matter when you can be 0/3 with a giants belt/armor against a tiamat/phage or something and still be killed under your t2.

Remember when Nautilus top lane was a threat because he could snag a carry and keep them locked down long enough and not because he could hit you for 1/3 to half of your HP with a combo? Remember when teamfights were decided based on target selection, catches, lockdown, and peel rather than a single misstep from one of your carries? Remember when your lane wasn't decided at 1 or 2 kills? Remember when you had to think about what cooldowns you needed to use at what time on the proper target instead of mashing your face on the keyboard as fast as possible?

I do, and I want it back. With the introduction of Nexus Siege, the state of the game perfectly matches what that mode is designed to do. Imagine how boring Nexus Siege would have been if introduced back in season 3/4, it just doesn't fit the mentality that state of League was balanced around.

TL;DR

Champion picks are more meaningful than the roles that they were designed to cover, tanks can't be a threat long enough for carries to get involved, damage counters damage instead of tank stats doing that job, and full builds are rare on all champs when some of them are still balanced around this (or some have been rebalanced to not be attached to this).

62 Comments

Hügö12/4/2018, 5:19:23 PM39 votes

I remember when friends introduced me to league and I asked them what kind of game it is they told me it is a moba and I was like "nice still don't know what it is, can you describe it". And they told me you can see it as a mix of football and chess, a team game and strategy. And it realy was back in the days I started and it was realy described as a mix of of football and chess everywhere. And today it is more of a fighting game: See the enemy go attack.

jllemin12/4/2018, 4:44:21 PM24 votes

The day Riot decided to start designing what should be meta and what is strongest (IE juggernaut meta>tank meta>all the other shit after that) is the day League started to become a not fun game. Taking the power of how a person should play their videogame also removes the ability for the person to have fun in the way they want to. You simply cannot have fun, win a game, and play something not meta into something meta if you are the strongest person on your team.

Snarf of thunder12/4/2018, 7:28:28 PM22 votes

This is so true but you cant count on riot fixing this. They dont care to read things this long [sg-miss-fortune]

jllemin12/4/2018, 4:41:36 PM17 votes

The game is more reliant on who you pick, rather than how well you can play them. So long as you can play well enough to not int and just use your abilities you will win if you have the right champion.

Stracony12/5/2018, 12:13:12 AM11 votes

{quoted}

Back a couple seasons ago there were clear champion picks and comps you could draft, and most were viable. I think I'm remembering a patch or so before the Juggernaut update. It was bliss.

Top lane, you could pick what you wanted; Something like Jayce/Renekton for early game comps, Vlad/Rumble for carry oriented mid-game focus, or tanks for the late game teamfights. The choice mattered to fill a gap within your team comp, or if you were an early pick, could choose to be the teams carry.

For Jungle you could fill the gaps where you needed it; AP, AD, Bruiser, Tanky, you could play it all and still be useful if you played well. If you played a tanky jungler, it wouldn't matter if you got invaded because you had the raw stats to survive long enough for your team to come back you up. If you had a volatile matchup somewhere, you could pick an early game champion like Lee and be there to help faster at the sacrifice of being outscaled late game.

Mid lane; Too much AP in Vlad top and Grag jungle? Team relies on late game heavily? Need some late game? Need some burst? Need some extra CC? We got it all here, as long as it does damage and waveclear it has a home mid lane. Not everything here was META of course, but not many picks were entirely useless either because they had their strengths and weaknesses.

ADC; Team drafted carries? Grab some utility in Ashe, Varus. Wombo-Combo heavy team? Twitch/MF. No late game threats? You've got your choice of hypercarries. Facing a bunch of divers? Ez/Lucian/(Pre RW)Graves. You have your choice of picks with clear strengths and weaknesses. META here is really dependent on your team comp unless something is busted beyond belief (Kog/Lulu ardent meta).

Support; Lacking some tanks? Need some peel for your carries? No engage? No disengage? Too many tanks? You literally have so many options to choose from here, you can play to your own playstyle.

What's the state of the game right now? Whoever can get their cooldowns off first of course! Bursty, mobile carries are everywhere. Tank stats don't matter because Riot's philosophy of the game is that offense should outscale defense, the only time it matters is if you get fed and can become tanky before carries get damage. If you compare a full build tank to a full build carry, the carry can usually dispatch the tank within seconds.

Now obviously it makes sense that a carry can kill a tank you say! Well of course it makes sense, but what's the point of building tanky if you cannot lock down this carry long enough for YOUR carries to come kill them. As a tank, you should be living long enough to get multiple rotations of your cd's off in a teamfight. That's how tanks generate threat in a PVP game, CC/Disruption, since most players are smart enough to realize putting dps into a tank isn't worth it. Unfortunately, this is not the case in recent seasons. CC has been reduced and TTK has decreased, leading to a tank not being actually tanky enough to survive long enough to dish out multiple rotations in a teamfight. Tanks have been phased out by bruisers because damage is the only thing that counters damage, and Riot has been solidifying this mentality by buffing tanks DAMAGE instead of touching their CD's or CC duration.

During champ select, you used to have to think about the comp you were drafting. If you had no late game, you were hoping you could get a lead early and roll with it. All AD/AP team was basically an autoloss because tanks were tanky and having full Armor/MR was a godsend for tanks. Not having an early game made your team a pushover when it came to neutral objectives. Not having peel made the carries have to play incredibly safe. Not having a tank meant having a teamfight disadvantage. Champion picks didn't matter as much as it does now as long as you could fill a role your team needed and your target selection was good. Every champion had their time in the spotlight because games lasted 40-50 minutes, long enough for each champion pick to make an impact in their designed powerspike and reach full build if the game hadn't been taken over already.

Nowadays players can decide games from champ select a majority of the time. Champs keep getting into a broken state because of some balance patch and the only way to deal with the problem is to kill that champion because tanks can't lock them down long enough for carries to kill them. It used to be good advice to build tanky when behind, but now it doesn't even matter when you can be 0/3 with a giants belt/armor against a tiamat/phage or something and still be killed under your t2.

Remember when Nautilus top lane was a threat because he could snag a carry and keep them locked down long enough and not because he could hit you for 1/3 to half of your HP with a combo? Remember when teamfights were decided based on target selection, catches, lockdown, and peel rather than a single misstep from one of your carries? Remember when your lane wasn't decided at 1 or 2 kills? Remember when you had to think about what cooldowns you needed to use at what time on the proper target instead of mashing your face on the keyboard as fast as possible?

I do, and I want it back. With the introduction of Nexus Siege, the state of the game perfectly matches what that mode is designed to do. Imagine how boring Nexus Siege would have been if introduced back in season 3/4, it just doesn't fit the mentality that state of League was balanced around.

TL;DR

Champion picks are more meaningful than the roles that they were designed to cover, tanks can't be a threat long enough for carries to get involved, damage counters damage instead of tank stats doing that job, and full builds are rare on all champs when some of them are still balanced around this (or some have been rebalanced to not be attached to this).

This guy is just dropped a truth nuke.

Ηuawei12/4/2018, 11:19:39 PM9 votes

With the state of the game being shifted towards Quick Time Event simulator with billions of damage i don't think League can be salvaged anymore.

Take it or leave it, it's League of Damage and it's here to stay

rtbf22561824112/5/2018, 2:43:18 PM7 votes

I've seen the same posts with the exact same titles hundreds of times now and nothing's changed over the course of 4 years.

I'm pretty sure all the effort you put into this was pretty wasted.

TehNACHO12/4/2018, 11:12:38 PM6 votes

If you played a tanky jungler, it wouldn't matter if you got invaded because you had the raw stats to survive long enough for your team to come back you up.

Ehh, are we remembering the same Jungle?

Excluding Amumu and Rammus who were perpetual sleeper ops, the Jungle was often very literally defined by a holy trinity of high aggro Junglers at least before S5 or so. Some trio of Lee Sin/Elise/Lee Sin/Evelynn/Lee Sin/Vi/Lee Sin/and sometimes Jarvan. This was largely because not only did they have absolutely fantastic ganks early and decent enough utility late, but because their clear speeds were so extraordinary that they outpaced tank junglers and even had free time to counter jungle and bully tank junglers head on, invalidating most tank jungle picks in any decent enough elo that people were aware enough to counter jungle.

I like the sentiment of this post but this just sticks out to me. S5+ Jungle, perhaps until the Lv3/3 camps to Lv3/4 camps change was ideal, but S4 and older Jungles were harsh as fuck.

Galiö12/5/2018, 12:00:32 AM6 votes

This sounds like the siege/poke, team fight or split push meta back in the day.

Now its just early snowball/team fight meta. LAME

Nyarlathοtep12/5/2018, 8:38:17 AM5 votes

Here's the problem. Even if strategy was around, people wouldnt build for their teamcomp. Do you know how many games i ve gone with no frontliner or someone with peeling capabilities when the enemy is full of assassins or divers? Spolier alert, countless.

xyz70712/5/2018, 3:25:34 PM4 votes

So much delusion in this thread... If its about who you pick and not how you play, why aren't all of you challenger?

NoIWontBuySkins12/5/2018, 9:27:41 PM4 votes

Very well written too bad no one from Riot actually reads these

Boiled Triangles12/4/2018, 11:18:35 PM4 votes

Literally just put a 20% damage reduction aura in the game and it goes back to 2015 quality for me. Probably not a perfect solution, but it's much better than their current plans to fix the game (which is seemingly nothing at all).

RekSai CoffeeCo12/5/2018, 3:51:45 PM4 votes

For Jungle you could fill the gaps where you needed it; AP, AD, Bruiser, Tanky, you could play it all and still be useful if you played well. If you played a tanky jungler, it wouldn't matter if you got invaded because you had the raw stats to survive long enough for your team to come back you up. If you had a volatile matchup somewhere, you could pick an early game champion like Lee and be there to help faster at the sacrifice of being outscaled late game.

This is the main reason why scuttle needs to reverted it greatly narrows the diversity of the jungle.

BigFBear12/5/2018, 10:26:43 AM3 votes

I remember a time where it was a 80%+ win if your team had a Tank or let's say a "Frontline" (Bruiser/Offtank/etc.) and enemy had only Squishies (even more if they were pure AD or AP). If you survived early game it was just a home run.

Nowadays it means nothing. I even have the feeling that i lose more against full squishy teams (no matter if pure AD or not) as Tank/Offtank.

Daddy Ants12/5/2018, 1:04:03 AM3 votes

I'd say this game lost it's "strategic approach" around mid-late season 6.

League feels like the only thing that matters is what you lock in during champion select.

Critmaster Garen12/5/2018, 9:45:57 PM3 votes

{quoted}

Top lane, you could pick what you wanted

unless it was juggernauts.

Aseraan12/5/2018, 2:23:57 AM2 votes

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAt?

You dont like that the enemy can now just click on you and you die? Thats the perfect strategy tho cant deny it.

Whats gona make the game more strategic than the fear of death WELCOME TO Leage of Darksouls.

"That grass looks dangerously sharp" -Nic Cage-

jllemin12/5/2018, 2:50:18 AM2 votes

The game is about what Riot wants you to play, and if your not playing that you may as well kys and assume the role of an afk cadaver because the next 20-45 minutes will be the same experience weather you win or lose your lane, you inevitably lose.

Anatera12/6/2018, 3:29:09 AM2 votes

Too bad Riot doesn't miss it after being taken over by a team of clowns who've never designed a game properly in their entire life.

deltemp95151212/5/2018, 3:30:39 PM2 votes

The current strategy is 'most damage wins.'

Total Eclipse12/5/2018, 3:48:39 PM2 votes

Damage is outweighing everything right now, but CC timers are NOT down from what they used to be. Youre right about tanks not being true tanks. When damage/1shotting/CCGangBanging isnt your only option, you open up diversity.

hoganftw12/5/2018, 3:20:34 PM1 votes

My strategy remains unchanged tbh, farm up and splitpush ggwp opening D gates

The Highest Noon12/5/2018, 3:51:08 PM1 votes

This game is strategic. It's just that strategy isn't actually needed when you consider the fact that it's 10 random ass players on the map.

remunade12/5/2018, 7:56:53 PM1 votes

Never found it fun having to play around whoever picked tanks and needing a certain cookie cutter role/champ in every game (s4 and 5 in a nutshell) was both terribly inflexible and frustrating for anyone who was less skilled in whatever wasn't their main role. I like the ability to carry games in soloq rather than having to play with a premade to ever do anything. Tanks in elo above d3 seem to perform as well as they always have. The game has gone from a focus on microplay to macroplay which is much more inviting to anyone who plays more than some select pool of technical champions, rather than sitting around some minutes waiting on your malphite to get his ult up for an engage or you adc to have their summs up in case they get dove (as they always have). When I was playing 3-4 years ago I was playing 40 minute games very regularly, I went over the hour mark more times than I could count, and quite frankly that was never an "enjoyable" experience. This feels like a nostalgia post more than anything else.

Wahre Gesicht12/6/2018, 10:50:43 AM1 votes

The team fight is sad now. It looks like a draw.