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Riot, please consider reverting the Riven changes of patch 9.10 and nerfing her in simpler way.

Ahlas·7/14/2019, 8:03:33 PM·39 votes·16,564 views

Riven

Riven was really strong before patch 9.10. According to u.gg, she had a 52.63% Win Rate on Diamond+ ranked games in patch 9.9. Riot realized she was too strong and tried to nerf her by making these changes:

https://files.catbox.moe/4dtiu6.png

The problem is that she is now probably stronger than before the changes. In fact, she now has a higher Win Rate than before (52.79%).

After the reduction of her Q cooldown, Riven now only needs about 25% CDR to be able to extend her Qs. Before the changes, she was only able to do that when she had about 40% CDR. Extending her Qs allows Riven to chain her third Q into a new series of Qs, giving Riven more damage and mobility.

To try to fix the fact that Riven is still too strong, apparently Riot is trying to nerf Riven by buffing some of her counters: Renekton and Poppy. Renekton Poppy

Renekton will receive a buff that will make his W destroy shields when he has 50+% fury and Poppy's W will now ground a champion if it blocks a dash.

But is this a good way of dealing with the problem?

For example, Renekton is considered a Riven counter, but if Riven plays well she has a chance of winning. This change will probably make the matchup much more one-sided and therefore will make it less fun. And a lot of Renekton mains don't even like these changes as well, including high elo ones.

==============================================//==============================================

So, is there a better way of dealing with Riven? Riven

Here's a suggestion: this whole situation got a little chaotic because unnecessary changes where made to Riven's kit. In fact, many people think it's even more frustrating to play against her after the changes. Why not just nerf Riven the simple way?

Just revert the 9.10 changes and simply nerf her from there, instead of trying to make changes that aren't really needed.

When people complain about Riven, they usually say things like:

  • She has too much mobility;
  • She is too hard to punish;
  • She has too much damage;

Why not nerf these things a little?

  • Don't buff her Q cooldown, leave it as it was before.

  • Simply increase her E cooldown by something like 2 seconds on all ranks: From 10/9/8/7/6 seconds ⇒ 12/11/10/9/8 seconds. This would reasonably make her easier to punish, less mobile and less frustrating to play against.

  • And then just nerf her damage a bit. This can be done in many ways. For example, in patch 6.17 Riven's R got buffed because she needed more damage:

https://files.catbox.moe/v3v4ev.png

Now that Riven is very strong, Riot could simply revert that. Alternatively, they could make it so her passive only stack one time, instead of 3, which would punish bad Riven players that just spam Q and don't Auto Attack between abilities in low elo.

I think those are reasonable changes that would make her more fair.

Also, doesn't Spear of Shojin's item 3161 passive makes champions like Riven, Renekton, Jax harder to deal with than they should be? It's nice to have an item that gives 20% CDR and a lot of AD, but changing the passive to something less problematic would probably make them more fair too.

39 Comments

SuicidePlank7/14/2019, 8:15:08 PM24 votes

Silly you, that wouldn't sell that many skins and maybe upset her mains. You do realise they cried like hell was gonna open when these """"nerfs"""" were coming around?

letsfeedtogether7/14/2019, 8:15:45 PM19 votes

Nah man. Just make another kaisa skin. It should fix riven.

Albertoplus7/14/2019, 10:28:41 PM13 votes

Make her Q CD start on 3rd Q cast.

Thank me later.

CHEWYARMS7/14/2019, 9:18:27 PM8 votes

Champ needs actual CDs.

Only time she has any sort of counter play or openings is during the early lane.

But that's also negated by her early lvls just being absurdly over stat. So the best way to play vs riven is to never touch her and FF lane pressure despite her being at her weakest.

After lvl 7/750 gold her CDs don't exist and the window to trade vs her after she blows her 3rd Q becomes like 2 seconds.

That's not enough time to properly punish her bad plays and bad use of spells.

Especially considering she has another mobility/ disengage tool on her other abilities. This is why high elo rivens don't have bad MUs. The window to punish this champion for being bad at the game is way to small.

Her Q needs a real CD so other champs have a window to fight back and trade properly.

Karito7/15/2019, 7:27:25 PM5 votes

Even this still is dancing around the real issue, her animation cancelling. Sure, Is it skill expressive? Yeah. But it's just things that other champions cannot do, and riot can't seem to be able to buff her properly because she can be so inconsistent.

Her kit on its own is really really strong, but does have some fairness, and should be able to be balanced around. Being able to animation cancel and get that dps, especially with conqueror is what makes her too strong.

If they want to leave animation cancelling, they need to gut her cooldowns and base damage, so that she has both a game Time and trading period to be punished. As is, she's consistent through the length of a game, and in lane it's too hard to force anything unless they really mess up.

Yääto7/15/2019, 12:46:45 AM3 votes

Riven doesn't build spear... that item is seriously not nearly as good on her as it is on other champs. It was good BEFORE the E changes because you could spam it, not with how your Q is set up, spear is a troll item on her. Secondly, nerfing her E AND Q is bad. Stop suggesting this. Everyone who suggests this change tilts me off the face of the planet.

Also, has no one realized that Riven's winrate is UP because her playrate is HALFED? From a 53% wr 20% play rate to a 53% wr, 11% pickrate. This means majority of players are mains now, instead of simply being bandwagoners. There's a reason the winrate will be so high. Her Q is her bread and butter. So if you guys plan on nerfing Q CD + E CD that means Riven's overall damage is going to have to go up to compensate for the stupid long CDs. You guys have so many fighter's in this game talking about CDs that no one understands that her CD is in line with literally every other fighter/bruiser.

CDs are the worse things to hit on Riven because she's literally never had a CD change from basically release. To top it off, Riven was incredibly weak before DD and conqueror's came out so let's stop and actually use our brains for a second. What they CAN do is decide which part of the game they want Riven to be really strong and which part she scales off.

They can increase early damage while decreasing late damage or decrease early while increasing late. This is the simplest change that they can do for Riven. Not the change you're suggesting, which is actually crippling the champ with unneeded CD that makes her unable to 1v1 any champ.

Darkdemon6537/14/2019, 10:50:01 PM3 votes

She'd probably be fine if Conqueror interacted with her Q properly.

Totallynotabot7/15/2019, 4:07:08 AM3 votes

Hot take: give her Mana or energy

Cevrad7/15/2019, 2:47:58 AM2 votes

{quoted}

Riven

Riven was really strong before patch 9.10. According to u.gg, she had a 52.63% Win Rate on Diamond+ ranked games in patch 9.9. Riot realized she was too strong and tried to nerf her by making these changes:

https://files.catbox.moe/4dtiu6.png

The problem is that she is now probably stronger than before the changes. In fact, she now has a higher Win Rate than before (52.79%).

After the reduction of her Q cooldown, Riven now only needs about 25% CDR to be able to extend her Qs. Before the changes, she was only able to do that when she had about 40% CDR. Extending her Qs allows Riven to chain her third Q into a new series of Qs, giving Riven more damage and mobility.

To try to fix the fact that Riven is still too strong, apparently Riot is trying to nerf Riven by buffing some of her counters: Renekton and Poppy. Renekton Poppy

Renekton will receive a buff that will make his W destroy shields when he has 50+% fury and Poppy's W will now ground a champion if it blocks a dash.

But is this a good way of dealing with the problem?

For example, Renekton is considered a Riven counter, but if Riven plays well she has a chance of winning. This change will probably make the matchup much more one-sided and therefore will make it less fun. And a lot of Renekton mains don't even like these changes as well, including high elo ones.

==============================================//==============================================

So, is there a better way of dealing with Riven? Riven

Here's a suggestion: this whole situation got a little chaotic because unnecessary changes where made to Riven's kit. In fact, many people think it's even more frustrating to play against her after the changes. Why not just nerf Riven the simple way?

Just revert the 9.10 changes and simply nerf her from there, instead of trying to make changes that aren't really needed.

When people complain about Riven, they usually say things like:

  • She has too much mobility;
  • She is too hard to punish;
  • She has too much damage;

Why not nerf these things a little?

  • Don't buff her Q cooldown, leave it as it was before.

  • Simply increase her E cooldown by something like 2 seconds on all ranks: From 10/9/8/7/6 seconds ⇒ 12/11/10/9/8 seconds. This would reasonably make her easier to punish, less mobile and less frustrating to play against.

  • And then just nerf her damage a bit. This can be done in many ways. For example, in patch 6.17 Riven's R got buffed because she needed more damage:

https://files.catbox.moe/v3v4ev.png

Now that Riven is very strong, Riot could simply revert that. Alternatively, they could make it so her passive only stack one time, instead of 3, which would punish bad Riven players that just spam Q and don't Auto Attack between abilities in low elo.

I think those are reasonable changes that would make her more fair.

Also, doesn't Spear of Shojin's item 3161 passive makes champions like Riven, Renekton, Jax harder to deal with than they should be? It's nice to have an item that gives 20% CDR and a lot of AD, but changing the passive to something less problematic would probably make them more fair too.

She has a higher win rate because the people who are actually good at her are the only people playing her.

DuskDaUmbreon7/15/2019, 1:10:13 PM2 votes

She has a higher winrate, but she lost like half her playrate, which means winrate went up because people on the hype train left.

.16% higher is tiny.

nLyHorace7/14/2019, 8:20:37 PM2 votes

Riven is fine, get better

chipndip17/15/2019, 8:04:39 PM1 votes

Riven's so stupid rn that she kind of goes even with Poppy, despite Poppy being the premiere anti-mobility tank of the game, simply because she has 3 dashes instead of one crucial one.

That on top of her ability to take flight over walls and shield herself damn near whenever she pleases (which scales with AD)...honestly you should be happy they're compensating it with more damage output.

NodirjonSattarov7/15/2019, 6:35:26 AM1 votes

at max CD riven Q cd is 3sec. who think that is okay for an ability that CCs, provides mobility and damage

Theorex7/15/2019, 12:35:26 AM1 votes

Riot doesn't care about NA my dude. They are balancing around EU and CN right now.

And when they come back to the KR style of play, they will balance around KR.

NA has no place in this game. Its super obvious by our pro scene.