What can be done with Ryze?

Fibrillous·2/23/2016, 1:50:29 AM·3 votes·1,240 views

Ryze is a champion that saw a very significant nerf as of patch 6.3. Reason being: "To put it lightly, the discrepancy between a new Ryze player and a Ryze veteran is staggering" (Riot). Some players in the community backlashed at this, saying veteran players should be much better than new players with a champion, but I feel they are missing the true intention of the nerf. Ryze, played to his full potential, honestly feels unfair. He has one of the highest damage outputs in a team fight, quite possibly the highest, while building as a fighter. This, when paired with the spellvamp of his ult, makes him an incredible threat and a very hard target to kill. His kit gives him the ability to permanently snare a champion, completely negating all damage from melee champions (commonly seen in top lane).

To recap, Ryze's incredibly high damage output while also remaining tanky and his ability to permasnare makes playing against him feel unfair to players.

6.3 addressed this issue by capping the number of spells he can throw out due to his passive to 5. Looking back at footage, Ryze, throwing spells at full speed, can reach above 10 spellcasts. This nerf gutted his damage output, reducing it to half. The window to cast while his passive is active was also reduced to 2.5 seconds at level one, scaling back to 5 seconds later in the game. This means that stuns early in the game drastically reduce the time that Ryze can cast spells with his passive. The reduction of his late game damage output by roughly half on top of giving him a weaker kill pressure early game have given Ryze players a much harder time playing well.

Before 6.3, I will admit, Ryze, if played correctly, was broken. If engages were timed in favor of his passive, there was a very strong probability that the fight would be won. After 6.3, while Ryze still can be played well and dominate games, he has fallen off as a strong champion.

https://gyazo.com/a30a2f2d1df7c93c3185e82d8c4e3901.png

Post-6.3, Ryze's win rate tanked to 43%. In my opinion, the 6.3 nerf was too large of a nerf and has put Ryze in a spot that is too weak.

TL;DR above, Ryze before 6.3 was too strong. Ryze after 6.3 is too weak.

That gets me to my question now: "What can be done with Ryze?" In my eyes, the problem stems from his high raw damage, permasnare, and ult giving him incredibly high survivability in fights. These can lead to players playing against him to feel like the fight was unfair, which is never healthy for any champion.

The problem I have with the way Ryze was nerfed as of 6.3 is that players who can combo with Ryze and understand how his kit worked are having their reward of knowing how to play him reduced in that his fundamental mechanic of comboing with his passive has been reduced. It's a frustrating nerf as the work put in to understanding Ryze mechanically is being somewhat taken away.

The best way to balance Ryze would be to reduce his damage output and his permasnare. To reduce his damage output, I think it would be appropriate to reduce the base damage (not the ability power and mana scalings) on his w and e by about 15-20%. Considering his damage output is from all of spells working in conjunction, a slight decrease in base power on two of his damage dealing spells will help prevent his early output from being too atrocious without completely gutting him as 6.3 did. The reason I don't think Q should be changed is to give new players more of a chance to do well by just landing skillshots. It's simple and rewarding and will keep new Ryze players engaged. To counteract the permasnare while keeping Runic Prison's identity, Runic Prison's snare should be reduced from 1 / 1.1 / 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 seconds to .8 / .9 / 1 / 1.1 / 1.2 seconds. Runic Prison should also have a slight slow (20-25%?) for 1 / 1.1 / 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 seconds. Reducing the snare time will still hold the target in place to land a follow up Q but it won't last long enough for the target to feel completely immobilized, allowing for more counterplay. The slow addition to Runic Prison will keep the identity of "perma-crowd control" without feeling too powerful or too weak.

There are probably a few ways of bringing Ryze into a healthy state without losing his identity. If you have ideas, please share.

4 Comments

Blumpkin Nation2/23/2016, 2:18:59 AM2 votes

Sorry, not sorry. Good riddance Ryze.

Boulderox2/23/2016, 2:36:22 AM2 votes

Ryze needa to be 100% redone, his theme is too problematic to keep portions in tact, his spam nature was changed to ult oriented combos, which was then exploited to endless roots, and then to a single combo milliseconds apart to.destroy any target without retaliation.... His spammy nature and cc is a bad mix...

BRBGTGBOWFLEX2/23/2016, 4:01:52 AM2 votes

Gut him and leave him until there is time for a rework. Leave him gutted and useless for at least a few more months.

Kinder2/23/2016, 4:02:00 AM1 votes

I also did a basic analysis of Ryze and possible solutions for him a bit ago. Might be worth a read here if you're interested.

Who should Ryze be: Ryze has had issues finding a healthy spot in League. He has been giving the niche of being mana-rapid-fire-cannon with a short-range-burst. The idea of being a short range bursty champion is has potential to be perfectly fine; the issue with a mage like Ryze is how to achieve his niche while keeping him healthy and viable. Ryze is fine keeping the niche of a mana-cannon, he just needs to be implanted better.

What is currently wrong: There are actually several things wrong with Ryze, game play issue and build path. Starting off with build path, it’s very straight forward: Build Rod of Ages (ROA) and tear to compliment his passive as mana-cannon. There’s no good substitute for ROA or tear on Ryze’s build since he’d lose so much damage without them. I'm personally fine with champions who will ALWAYS build the same item (ADCs with IE, mages with deathcap) since it will synergize well with them. My issue with Ryze is he has two few areas of branching out his build path.

Secondly, Ryze is difficult to play against as of now (6.2). With just 1-2 stacks on his passive, he can literally just walk up to his enemy and spam a few spells to activate his passive and go into rapid-fire mode. Sure, the enemy should be able to see a clear window to when Ryze goes into his deadly form, but that form can change in a heartbeat and doesn’t really allow much counter play when Ryze’s laner has to be on constant alert of an all-in when Ryze has only one-stack on his passive.

Third, his snare (W) is very unfun to play against. It’s super strong with the utility it can provide, especially in League of Dashes. It’s a point-and-click death almost if there’s a gank with how easy it is to land and chain other Ws if Ryze has popped his passive (especially on pro-play with Kalista/Nidalee being common picks).

Lastly, there’s no perfect balance between soloQ and pro-play. Ryze can freeze a wave in pro-play, receive resources from his team and just get to late game where he can duel anyone (except Fiora, fuck Fiora.....). SoloQ doesn’t have the luxury of a helpful team at any given time and Ryze is left to fend for himself until late game.

What can be changed about Ryze: He’s no easy task, which has been proven by his continuous nerfs/buffs/reworks in attempts to keep him at a healthy state. To make him healthier, he needs to have a healthier engage to play against (not one that can be casted from such few stacks), his build path, and his playstyle to play against.

Ideas on changing his build path: Reiterating again, Ryze has a very similar build path every single game (ROA/tear always) which turns him into a late game nightmare with his scaling items.

  • Add in a similar item to Viktor’s hex core. Give him a runic catalyst (or something like that, probably a scroll) that gives him some stats. He would upgrade the catalyst to get more mana/CDR /AP, which cost ~ 1000, gold per upgrade, up to three upgrades. To avoid Ryze from also building ROA/tear for extra damage on his mana = damage passive, additional mana on him would be calculated for half (i.e., 1000 mana would only count 500 mana when calculating his AP damage). He could still have the option to build ROA/tear for a larger mana pool, but he would at least have the ability to skip out one of them for a more unique build.

    • This would let Ryze also scale with farm rather than time so he’s not a ticking time bomb once he gets ROA/tear that can AFK in safety.
    • Fear is too similar to Viktor’s passive. Avoiding reusing certain ability concepts when possible is best option to avoid a champion outclassing the original. Though if it thematically fits well (Jhin/Graves auto system) then it can still be perfectly implemented. If it's implemented to the point of where it's not the reason you pick Ryze, then it was implemented well. (You don't pick Graves/Jhin because of ammo system, you pick them for their ranges and damage outputs.)
  • Reduce damage based off of total mana and give him mana back when he hits his powered Q on an enemy champion.

    • Would allow for some better routes into different builds as he can still keep his mana pool up during a skirmish.
    • Would create more meaningful timings to use his passive wisely to get most out of his abilities.
    • Still wouldn’t really solve the whole issue of him being OP in Pro-play and UP in soloQ, only the lack of build diversity.
  • Mana regen is increased lower current mana is.

    • Bad idea in hindsight. Would make punishing him for wasting abilities (farming/harassing) too difficult since he’d just regen mana.
  • Ryze steals enemy mana from an enemy who has been rooted (rooted target to specify who to take mana from) which then replenishes X% of what he took into his current missing mana pool whilst gaining X% damage of mana taken during the brawl.

    • He would no longer need to build two mana based items. *Would allow for specific counters (Energy users; Yasuo; Vladimir; etc) *May make him too strong of a counter though and possibly too niche based on how his numbers turn out.
    • Numbers could be adjusted to make his upfront burst very low (X% damage based on enemy missing mana so those with full mana are safe).
    • Numbers could be adjusted to make his end fight damage low (X% damage based on enemy current mana).
      • Both options (missing/current) would allow the enemy to control the pace of the lane. Easily abusable by non-mana users, he would need some form of extra damage to help survive (not dominate, counter picks are healthy).

** Ideas for making him more fair to play against: **

  • Increase his total stacks needed to proc his passive.

    • He’s able to proc his passive quite quickly if he holds onto 1-2 stacks in lane. Number changes would force him to go through at least once cycle of QWE to enter into his passive.
      • Still doesn't solve soloQ/pro-play issue.
  • Reduce AoE damage on minions while ulting (and or healing on damage dealt to minions).

    • A common form of counter play is hiding in your minions. He can clear a wave quickly and heal up, making minions almost disadvantageous to use.
      • Again no soloQ/pro-play balance issue solved.
  • Q during his passive only reduces cooldown of other abilities if it hits an enemy champion (W/E would still reduce cooldown of other abilities regardless of who they hit. Wouldn’t matter much since they’re still targeted abilities )

    • o Weakens his instant-wave clear with his ulti+passive. No champions in a minion wave put his ult into a bit more thoughtful choice when trying to clear waves. If champions in minion wave, makes hiding in minions a bit more safe.
  • Replace his W. A huge issue in playing against him is his W can be a perma snare which means death. Prisons are escapable, not a death sentence. Change his W into a circle (similiar to Thresh's ult) that is a slow if you break it/exit it.

    • Allows counterplay of at least escaping Ryze and still gives Ryze similar defenses as he currently has for when he gets ganked.
    • Allows 'counter-picks' since blinks wouldn't break it
    • Opens up cleanse as a viable summoner against him (really difficult to use since Ryze's snare is back up quickly).
    • Fun to play against balance for soloQ and also weakens him in pro-play since his utility of a point+click snare is gone. Still is UP in soloQ, but is a good start.

To make him a bit more balance in soloQ, he needs to be less mechanically challenging. Haven't done that part yet, but that's the starting thought on him.

Anyways, just my thoughts on him.