Boards›Gameplay

Let's have a chat about Veig's new E

PhoenixSlayer13·2/16/2015, 5:16:22 PM·2 votes·768 views

So, in case you weren't aware of the potential changes, here they be: Now has a .75 second delay before forming Cooldown decreased Mana cost decreased Range increased

Quite obviously everyone is up in a tizzy about the delay. What was once a reliable (honestly one could say too reliable) stun now has a fairly significant delay on it. Veigs can no longer easily stun someone and drop everything on them.

To be honest, it's probably a change that was needed, as the original E was considered one of the most powerful non-ultimate abilities in the game. But the thing is that Veigs has now become far more unreliable, as a person in the cage but not trapped by it can often dodge his W, which ends up being a large source of his damage late-game.

So, here's my suggestion: add a slow while inside the cage, and maybe decrease the delay. Veigar is shaping the very fabric of space itself into a trans-dimensional prison, but someone can very easily just move around in it and dodge everything Veigar throws at them. With the new delay, it's obviously not wise to decrease the size of E to make hits more reliable. A slow effect would allow movement in the cage but still allow Veigar to line up shots in a more controlled manner.

Anyway, just my idea. Let me know what you guys think.

6 Comments

Goosetard2/16/2015, 8:58:31 PM1 votes

Assuming his Q and R remain targetable abilities, "moving around and dodging everything" pretty much amounts to dodging his W. Assuming you build tenacity against veigar, even if he hits you perfectly with the stun it won't be an automatic hit until level 8 or 10, depending on when he gets his 3rd rank in E. The mana cost of the combo is expensive and he gets punished very hard for having his stun down.

What I think riot is trying to do: Give additional counterplay to the stun --> all-in combo from veigar.

What I think is actually going to happen with those changes: Mobility champs will get another strong matchup, this time against someone with mainly point + click damage. Neat. :|

Bad stuff (in my humble opinion) about it: The counterplay to veigar (mostly) isn't in dodging his stuff, it's in itemization. In lane, prioritizing magic pen builds over pure AP builds (like item 3116 item 3151 which gives you hp, additional utility, and reduces his R scaling from your AP), getting some tenacity, or getting some MR. If he can't evaporate you, he's in big trouble because his burst is insanely high but his DPS isn't very good and he has no mobility. I don't see what's wrong with that kind of counterplay. If you're an adc, you'll want summoner 1 or item 3140 or item 3102 or a support with item 3222 ... So what if you're "forced" into getting those? Buy them and his effectiveness drops DRASTICALLY. He has to be pretty close to one shot someone, and he only gets to one shot one person. The changes riot is making are in response to a "problem" that stems from frustration when Veigar goes on the offensive, and, in response, they're strongly affecting his defensive potential vs mobility creep empowered champions. Furthermore, the stun is very short range as it is now. It's extremely powerful in teamfights; in fact, it's all he's got for a teamfight after he uses his burst. Veigar wants to blow up one target; if he used his E on that target, he's now useless, and if he didn't, then he gets one E to influence the teamfight. It's got a fairly short cast range so trying to get a good one brings him pretty close to the front line and makes him stick his neck out. I think it's a fair tradeoff, and having larger-than-average teamfight presence is OK if you're on the losing side of a lot of lane matchups and sacrifice early game map presence because of it. Giving it an additional range, lower CD, and reduced mana cost may make it easier to avoid, but it's also going to let him do it from safety and possibly more than once. I don't think that's the right tradeoff. #soapbox

Good stuff (imho) about it: If you have godlike reflexes and accuracy you won't be able to use it to immediately reset any bad situation you get in. I think powerful abilities like that should have to be used in a proactive, not reactive way, in order to be healthy for the game.

Now that that's out of the way, here's my opinion to your specific question.

What I think you're trying to do: Give him back some of the offensive relevance of his E in 1v1 scenarios (be they in lane or small midgame skirmishes).

What I think would actually happen with that change: Make mobility mandatory against veigar. As it is now, if he can land the stun perfectly it doesn't matter how mobile you are, but if he botches it and you're stuck inside or out you can at least avoid the W damage regardless of your champion's mobility. If there's an AOE slow, he doesn't have to try to land it on an edge he can just plop it right on your head, land the W, and run away while you can't follow because of the stun-wall... unless you can dash out through the slow.

Slows don't punish champions with dashes very hard; I always thought event horizon was an interesting ability because even if you "miss," it represents an obstacle for most high mobility champions. Granted since I think that mild "mobility creep immunity" is going to disappear with Riot's proposed changes as well, I can't really fault your idea, even if I don't like that part of it. It's also starting to sound a lot like an ability from another champion... Viktor

Daedalus8712/17/2015, 3:57:02 AM1 votes

My idea for Event Horizon: Instantly Casts a 50 radius stun at target location. Over the course of 2 seconds, it grows to a 275/300/325/350/375 radius (current size). Targets that are stunned on cast, are stunned for 2 seconds, linearly decreasing down to a 1 second stun at 2 seconds (1.75 sec stun at 0.5 sec, 1.5 @ 1, 1.25 @ 1.5). Furthermore, enemies outside Event Horizon cannot see into the effected area. Event Horizon lasts for 3 seconds.

Alternatively, enemies leaving the effected Area are slowed by 50% for 1.5 seconds, decaying over the duration

This better fits the name Event Horizon, as black holes do tend to grow over time. Furthermore (if I am remembering my physics correctly), smaller black holes tend to warp space time more severely at their event horizons because Einstein said so. The conditional vision removal also fits as light cannot escape a black hole, but it can enter it.

Play wise, this would still allow Veigar to have an instant stun. However, it would pretty much be a 1 person instant stun because people do tend to spread out during late game. However, this instant stun would be balanced by the fact that Veigar and the squishy he wants to blow up would be seperated by quite a bit of range, thus he wouldn't be able to reliably stun the carries without making plays. It would still provide zone control as well, but it would be reduced from the current 5.5 seconds to 4 seconds, as it would be more forgiving to mistimings toward the end of the spell.

So that basically sums up my thoughts on how to make Veigar's stun healthier, more fun, and more skillful.