Chimes & meeps feel underwhelming get the rest of the kit involved.

MarshallBananna·3/20/2015, 3:36:00 PM·60 votes·3,732 views

[Note: This is not about balance, it's about how the character feels. Numbers can be tweaked. ]

Am i the only one who feels they are almost not worth the effort?

I'm not saying the chimes themselves are useless, far from it. That ms boost and mana regen do wonders for your early game sustain and map presence.

However, the stack/meep system feels very unrewarding. Your reward for untold minutes of gameplay and gold/Xp loss spent in roaming the map collecting chimes just for an occasional AA buff (that btw, is wasted on minions, if your attack them) doesn't feel like it's worth the effort and danger of leaving a lane 2v1.

Unlike other infinite scaling champions like Sion or Thresh , who's scaling gives them either combat stats or affect integral parts of their kit, Chime count has absolutely no impact on your performance when you have 0 meeps or are outside of AA range, and have no interaction with any of your skills.

The idea of Bard is to create a roaming support, collecting stuff on the way. Since he's giving up gold, xp and lane pressure, his collecting mechanic should give him a more attractive incentive IMO.

Would it be too much to add some functionality to your kit that scales off Chimes / Max Meep count?

Something along the lines of:

Caretaker's Shrine : MINIMUM HEAL: 30 / 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 (+ 20% AP) + (Chimes) MAXIMUM HEAL: 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+ 45% AP) + (Chimes x 2)

Magical Journey ALLY BONUS MOVEMENT: 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% + (% Chimes)

Cosmic Binding MAGIC DAMAGE: 75 / 110 / 145 / 180 / 215 (+ 50% AP) + (Chimes) SLOW/STUN DURATION: 1 / 1.2 / 1.4 / 1.6 / 1.8

TL;DR : I believe chimes should be more rewording than a free scaling IBG proc every once in a while. Considering it's closely tied to his identity as a roaming support, more interactions with his kit would fit his identity much better.

42 Comments

MarshallBananna3/20/2015, 4:14:19 PM19 votes

Whenever i leave lane to collect chimes...

... what i should be thinking : "i'm going to collect me some chimes and fulfill my bard endgame fantasy!"

... what i'm actually thinking : "oh carp i'm low on mana, need chimes"

this is not Bard "fantasy fully realized" as was probably intended by riot.

iNSiPiD13/20/2015, 4:01:08 PM7 votes

I like this idea. They definitely could make collecting the chimes more rewarding. As it stands now you leave the lane to get a minuscule boost to your speed, mana, and exp and in return you're leaving your lane 2v1. The way it's set up now is that it seems like they don't really want you leaving the lane at all early on, which makes no sense because during the laneing phase you're so weak you can literally be ignored.

Crett3/20/2015, 4:29:20 PM4 votes

Ult Range: 2500 + 15 x chimes SNIPED

Zavern3/20/2015, 6:09:49 PM4 votes

Chimes need to give more EXP as the game progresses, and maybe some gold. Leaving lane for even a minute can make you lose a wave worth of EXP and Gold. It would also be nice for Chimes to boost his skills, though the % movement speed boost on the portal might need a cap.

junglerboy163/20/2015, 8:21:57 PM3 votes

I would love it if chimes had a more direct impact on Bard's gameplay, and being able to have more flat scaling for following the desired gameplay pattern would be excellent.

Ltank1293/21/2015, 1:35:32 AM3 votes

Upvoting

Literally, the chimes are for mana regen at the moment. Yes, if the game gets to 60 minutes, his five enhanced autos might actually be able to clear minion waves (by using all of them), but if Thresh has a 60 minute games, he is going to have the AP to hit like a truck, Sion will be near unkillable, Nasus will be one shotting dragon with his q and Viegar will be deleting even tanks. Considering for Nasus, Sion and Viegar they have a passive to stack on top of that, Bard's passive is rather underwhelming. I see him more defined by his Ult and Magical Journey than by his roam encouraging passive.

Bonnibel3/21/2015, 3:54:25 AM3 votes

I completely agree. There's no win situation on getting chimes to me. Whenever I play Bard I either feel like I spent the entire game trying to get * 3 * meeps, or I feel like I'm completely weak and underachieved for finishing the game with 1, 2 meeps from occasional chimes in my lane. And it's so tiring to roam the entire map and get so little rewards.

Also having the meeps go with basic attacks is not a good idea at all. I'm completely fine with keeping a stun when playing annie, but with Bard I can't even have auto attack on. But that's just a petty issue right now

JumbaJoopleakley3/21/2015, 2:11:23 PM3 votes

They should also just give him all his meeps right at the beginning. I rarely have a game where I have more than 2, and it makes me too conservative with my autos. I also saw someone somewhere say they should have cool down reduction affect meep re-spawn time, which is another good idea.

His heal needs a buff to. A 120 mana heal that takes 10 seconds to be useful and that can also be destroyed needs to be more worth it (the heal is lower than of Taric, Kayle, and Soraka's). You can also only have 3 at a time like wards, so if they're not picked up by the time you move they go to waste. Give it that percent heal for health missing thing, and find some way to tell people to not pick it up till it's done.

Desmond Law3/20/2015, 7:02:11 PM2 votes

Collecting chimes should increase max mana by 3 buy archangel's staff profit

Narvuntien3/21/2015, 11:43:48 AM2 votes

I agree I came here to post the same idea. The chimes really need to effect his whole kit. I'd like some reward for the risk of leaving my laner alone and wandering into my opponents side of the map. a little damage and a strong slow isn't enough.

Bard's impact on the game, with the exception of his ultimate is really low... its hard to land the stun reliably through minions, the heal is super super weak and with the journey only 1 way. He just doesn't do anything. His scaling is also poor so there isn't really a way to deal any damage.

NorthernDruid3/22/2015, 10:40:09 AM1 votes

What would be really great would be if his meeps could be used for his spells, and not just for throwing at your enemies.

For example:

  • a guaranteed stun+empowered damage on Q,
  • Empowered healing and movespeed boost (shorter charge time?) on his W
  • damage shield for when travelling through his portals
  • and something nice (like more shields) for friendlies coming out of his ult's stasis

They really need to let him have more of them earlier though. I saw another suggestion of lowering the increments for upgrades to every 4 chimes instead of every 5, and that sounded pretty reasonable to me.

JumbaJoopleakley3/20/2015, 9:36:16 PM1 votes

I agree. It would also help if they didn't spawn in the enemy jungle or next to enemy towers so much.

trial13/21/2015, 8:34:21 AM1 votes

Reduce trinket cooldown by x second / chime. Reduce summoner spell {{summoner:2}} summoner 12 summoner 6 cooldown by x second / chime. Well, he is roaming around, might as well empower his utility by giving him more trinket control and map awareness.

MarshallBananna3/21/2015, 1:14:38 PM1 votes

Out of morbid curiosity, i ran some numbers comparing meeps to item 3057 ,item 3025 and item 3100 . Here's the results.

At lvl 12 the sheen proc from these 3 items are (considering no other AP item bought for lichbane): item 3057 = 79 item 3025 = 98.75 item 3100 = 99.25

The closest meep damage i found was 80, at 20 chimes for item 3057 and 110 at 30 chimes for the other two. The minimum time needed to collect 20 chimes is 8.3 minutes and 30 chimes is 12.5 minutes.

Comparing to item 3057 : You have to wait 8.3 minutes and pick up ALL the chimes in order to get a free mediocre sheen proc every 12 seconds (24 seconds if you want 2 charges).

Comparing to item 3025 or item 3100 : You have to wait 12.5 minutes and pick up ALL the chimes in order to get a free iceborn proc every 12 seconds (24 seconds if you want 2 charges).

This doesn't even consider the fact that lichbane also has mana, %ms, the proc being on demand rather tan constantly up and wasted, and that it has a better AP scaling than meeps.

so yeah, underwhelming, to say the least

Not that i'm implying you would ever buy a sheen item on Bard, but it really makes you think how lame meeps are atm. This really isn't worth leaving lanes unattended, nor is it a good incentive to roam the map and forcing yourself out of position and possibly into danger.

Bresn3/21/2015, 3:32:52 PM1 votes

I don't see any problem. If you hit the minions, you own damn problem. I can do 500+ damage with a AP build and chimes is efficient for a excuse to roam to other lanes or even hit 500MS.

Madra3/21/2015, 6:57:57 PM1 votes

If you are just collecting chimes you are doing it wrong. Get vision, pressure lanes and make plays while you are out there.

Oleandervine3/22/2015, 5:35:01 AM1 votes

I personally agree that the chimes are not worth the effort, especially if you want to continue having fun during the game. Sure, darting off now and again for 2 or 3 chimes isn't bad, but once the team fighting starts, it's next to impossible to go out of your way and collect those things because you almost always need to be with the team to help win. Though, currently, Bard doesn't really contribute much to the team at all. He has too short of a range, he has like 0 peel, and his stun is hyper dependent on practically kicking them in the shins. I think that's his biggest issue. He's got no contribution to the team during fights. He's Mr. Super Utility for sure, but a champion who makes doors, plants HP in the ground and stasis' the entire team isn't that exciting or useful to play as. I mean, I like him artistically, but play style, he's BORING. It's all "collect chimes, maybe stun them!" for him and not much else. For all the overloaded kits that had been released at the end of 2014, it feels like Bard's is actually underloaded, and that's comparing him to every other champ that wasn't designed by CertainlyT. It's kind of sad really, and makes an interesting concept fall flat on it's face.

What really kills me about him is that his kit ALMOST mimics utility supports like Sona and Zilean. All three of them have Qs that are their only damage dealer (I don't really count Sona's R), and the remainders of their kits are just utilty. Where Sona and Zilean differ is that Sona's Q deals decent damage and it auto targets, which helps negate the fact that she has to get fairly close to use it. Zilean's Q is devastatingly strong, but it's limited to a skill shot, yet it zones and can activate no matter where he is on the map. Sure, it's hard to manage the stun with him, but you don't need to because you can play safe and be at range. Sona and Zilean also have speed buffs and major major utility in their Rs that doesn't hinder the allied team. Bard can drop health packs. That's about it. His E is useless in team fights unless you're making an escape or an initiation, and his HP packs take too long to be useful because the piddly health they grant before 10s isn't enough to save anyone in a team fight. And R is just as bad as Kalista's R in that it wrenches control AWAY from ALLIES, which is something a champion should never be capable of. Crowd Controlling allies is one of the biggest No-No's in my books, and those ults honestly feel very wasted because you really cannot use them effectively without a hivemind machine connecting you and every other player in a random match.

So Riot, please take Bard back. Make him fun. Release him again once you've smashed out all of the issues that the PBE is supposedly there to do. And while you're at, rework Kalista's ult and beat your designers over the head the next time they decide that making a champion that can crowd control allies is a great idea.

ComeOnAndSlamJam3/22/2015, 5:36:11 AM1 votes

I support this. Right now chimes feel useless. +20xp and a little mana is nice if it happens to appear in my lane, but it's not worth actually roaming for.