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A Udyr veteran speaks out about Udyr's current state

Udyr May Fire·8/6/2016, 6:13:44 PM·36 votes·5,077 views

Hello, My name is Udyr May Fire and, I`ve been playing Udyr since season 2. At the moment I have 3 accounts, which are ranked Master and Diamond 1 on the EUW server. The name for the accounts, are the following: Udyr May Fire, Udyr May Fire v2, Udyr May Fire v3

I am here to share my thoughts about Phoenix Udyr’s current state and to start a debate with you and my fellow Udyr players.

Thoughts

I personally know a lot of people who used to play a lot of Udyr, in fact they were one trick ponies that didn’t play anything else. Most of them stopped playing him after the second nerf in Patch 6.7, and the ones who kept playing him, they had a massive drop in their win ratio on him. I’m sorry to say this about my favorite champion, which I used to play for seasons. I gave up playing him too. Simply because the success that I’ve had with this champion just started vanishing after Patch 6.7. (I played Udyr mostly on Udyr May Fire v3 after the nerfs)

Phoenix’s unique strength was his unique clearing speed in the jungle, that allowed you to compete against every other jungler. Since the clear has been so severely affected by the Phoenix nerfs, it is almost impossible to get ahead against an equally skilled jungler.
The Phoenix Stance lost it’s entire effectiveness to farm up for it’s shiny mid game. Right now the only way to reach the point where Phoenix Stance shines, is to get ahead with successfull ganks, which usually is very random.
But the safer and ordinary way to scale up by farming is completely impossible, unless it is a 50 minute game. The clear speed of almost any other jungler is way faster, that is basically what puts Udyr’s Phoenix in such a huge disadvantage.

What about Tiger Stance, is what some of you might think… Well let me share my thoughts about Tiger Stance. I’ve been playing Udyr for more than three years, with only Phoenix Stance, and I didn’t really play him with Tiger Stance. After the nerf of Udyr’s Phoenix Stance I tried playing Tiger Stance with a bunch of different builds, but in the end I could conclude that it didn’t fit my gamestyle and the gameplay is so different between Phoenix and Tiger Stance. I have given up on playing Udyr with Tiger Stance. I might try it again in the future. Don’t get me wrong, Tiger is in a good spot, there are several good Tiger players who’ve had success with it.
In my opinion though, Tiger Stance should NOT be the one and only viable choice for Udyr.

 

Udyr’s nerfing history:

Patch 6.4

  • Turtle: 60/100/140/180/220 -> 60/95/130/165/200
  • Phoenix Proc: 40/80/120/160/200 -> 40/75/110/145/180

Patch 6.7

  • HP Reg: 8,7 -> 6
  • Phoenix Wave: 15/25/35/45/55 -> 10/20/30/40/50
  • Phoenix Proc: 40/75/110/145/180 -> 25/60/95/130/165

 

'Recently Hecarim became kinda the new Udyr.' Both have the same interests & characteristics, like good gank potential and they both want to farm for their shiny mid/late game. Nerfs for both were justified.

In Patchnotes 6.15 Hecarim got nerfed.

  • Base AD: 61,37 -> 58
  • Rampage(Q): 60/95/130/165/200 -> 50/85/120/155/190

Hecarim lost 10 damage on his main ability at every Ramapage-level. In percentage he lost 17% damage at level 1 Rampage and 5% damage at level 5 Rampage.

In comparison to Udyr, Phoenix lost 35 damage at max level.

  • Phoenix Proc: 40/80/120/160/200 -> 25/60/95/130/165

In percentage Phoenix lost 38% damage at level 1 and 18% damage at level 5.

The nerfs for Hecarim made him healthier and sent him into a solid state.
However i do not feel the same about Phoenix, and even the numbers show me the same.

I don’t want that Udyr becomes the strongest jungler as well as the most banned champion again. I just want to show Riot Games that they’ve done a horrible mistake nerfing this champ in this way, they should change something about Phoenix, at least make it playable again.

Most Udyr Mains stopped playing or moved to other champions, since Phoenix is simply no longer an option to keep up against other junglers.

Suggestions

  1. Small Phoenix Proc Buff (live) 25/60/95/130/165 -> 40/75/110/145/180 (numbers of patch 6.7) + nerf the AP scaling so a AP Burst build on Udyr should not be a thing, and also it can be prevented by doing the following;
  2. Revert Phoenix to Season 2 state That means, no third hit proc upon activition, Phoenix Proc shall only be triggered with a basic attack. Increase Proc Damage, AP Phoenix becomes non-viable since you would need to build attackspeed.

I would appreciate your suggestions, comments and your opinions on whether you agree with me or not.

57 Comments

Arakadia8/6/2016, 8:57:24 PM15 votes

I almost feel like he needs a VGU. He's a large ball of stats and onhit effects and doesn't live up to his theme as much as he could. He can literally use every stat in the game and he's just so spread out on what items to build.

He seems to break items often and looks like a homeless man. Even a VU would be glorious but with his ultimate skin curse, he probably won't get one.

KillerPenguins8/6/2016, 6:16:42 PM7 votes

The reason phoenix needed the nerf is because of split pushing phoenix udyr being able to go 0/0/0 and win the game by himself with no real counterplay from the enemy team other than pushing faster, as I understood it.

GULAG 4 U8/6/2016, 7:34:30 PM6 votes

Udyr is toxic and needs a rework. Not just some little buffs. Just like

Kalista Aatrox Azir Rengar

Ok sure but why8/6/2016, 6:29:47 PM4 votes

If PETA asks, this fur is fake.

SlashStriker8/6/2016, 7:05:07 PM4 votes

my personal problems with udyr

  • no auto reset when switch stances
  • cooldown on all abilities after switch stances
  • no combo system for a melee champion
  • when switch stances udyr cancels his auto attack and the attack timer goes on cooldown
  • turtle should scale with bonus health instead lifesteal
  • no visual update. His animation makes him look like a ridiculous clown (LOOK GUYS I AM AIRPLANE ON FIRE VRUMMMMMMM)

I believe he can becomes more fun but those are things that bother me

Very Hard Engage8/6/2016, 6:27:11 PM3 votes

phoenix stance nerf which

*took away my uber clear speed and now set me on par with other junglers *

now wtf, hes got nothing broken op anymore, freelo is gone baby

CasterGilgamesh8/7/2016, 12:31:48 AM2 votes

i just want riot to give Udyr a VGU and we golden though maybe riot could spare to just give his kit small tweaks on the level of a class update

Holgranth8/6/2016, 11:57:36 PM2 votes

Salty season 1 bitter veteran here. Udyr has two MASSIVE problems when it comes to balance, hes entirely focused on melee auto attacks and he is as flat as North Dakota. If he is good he is amazing and frustrating as hell for the opposing team, if he is bad.... he sucks. The very things that make him Udyr also prevent him from ever being balanced, a massive VGU that overhauled his stances and made turtle stance and bear stance real choices for sustained combat as opposed to secondary buttons that you press for their effects then quickly switch away from might help him significantly but he will never be easy to balance.

disregardable8/6/2016, 6:33:10 PM2 votes

Riot has historically not given a fuck about alternative build routes. The second one path is deemed too strong, it's butchered and abandoned.

Hyrdal8/6/2016, 6:46:35 PM2 votes

The only way I manage to be relevant in a game Phoenix Udyr is when I build some tankiness and utility. It's damage are too low if you don't build a lot of AP and giving up tankiness (except with Abyssal but that's only one "nice" item). I know Riot is considering him as a Juggernaut (high damage with decent scaling to allow the champion to build health/ar/mr with some damage) but that's not how he feels right now unless with some Tiger build. But here comes the problem: AP juggernauts are not a thing, there are AP tanks (strong base damage with low scaling but provides a lot of utility), a class where Udyr doesn't fit on his actual state due to his utility being defined in some part by his movement speed.

Very Hard Engage8/6/2016, 8:32:56 PM2 votes

udyr main wants buffs for a currently 49% win rate champ because he no longer maintains a positive win rate on him in diamond + elo

when in reality hes just getting kited and hes not gross enough to spill over into the carry range that hes used too where he can 2v1 from his absurd early game farming lead above any other jungler.

udyrs current jungle clear speed is not abysmal like everyone is making it out to be, it is slower, but not even bottom 5 slow.

let me list all the champs who are still slower than udyr.

Amumu Rammus Maokai Nautilus Sion

and heres all the additional champions udyr still beats when udyr builds damage as a first item. Evelynn LeeSin Gragas Graves JarvanIV Zac Volibear RekSaiKhazix Rengar

who udyr used to beat, but no longer does with average hybrid build. Elise LeeSin Nocturne Pantheon Vi Warwick MonkeyKing

who udyr used to contend with. MasterYi Shyvana Olaf Nunu

udyrs current clear speed is on par with rengar/khazix, are we going to say these clear speeds are god awful and unbearable, and those two also need immediate buffs for their first pass clears?

this is strictly a build issue, you arent going sated/bork or sated rage blade like you used too. you're trying cinderhulk and hydra and you expect to deal tons of damages to camps. the task you want to accomplish is simply a champion choice issue, the nerf was justified and you want more out of a champion than what is fairly offered.

Tl;DR udyr has an average clear time, deal with it.

im sorry you dont beat damage rush junglers when you build cinderhulk?

VvVVvV8/6/2016, 9:51:05 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Udyr May Fire,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EnyEJfec,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-06T18:13:44.749+0000)

the success that I have had with this champion just started vanishing after Patch 6.7.

Im not sure what this would show then. I mean, im sure your skill level on him hasn't changed. So was he just too OP and you were just benefiting from it? And since he was knocked down a bit you are just winning at the rate you should have been winning at all along?

The Deckowner8/6/2016, 10:03:24 PM2 votes

Udyr is just a casualty of Rito's "nerf champion instead of op item" mentality. Shyvana Sejuani XinZhao were also casualties of such event.

FantasySniper8/7/2016, 3:18:04 AM2 votes

He's broken several items because every stat is exploitable on him. People that play him are unsatisfied with his potential, and it's difficult to make playing against him feel fair. He needs a rework if he's ever going to feel healthy.

Teslyn8/7/2016, 2:52:35 AM1 votes

Come on man... you cant tell me that most those games you didnt have to 1v5 the enemy team or just split push with udyr to win. 3 accounts all sitting above D1... the champ is broke and needs to be fixed. He is just AA tank #'s... learn a rotation and you climb with him...

Maybe he will see more play when the assassins rework happens, but to be honest havent missed him.

He is hard to catch and hard to kill.. perfect split push annoyance.

invisiblecat18/7/2016, 2:56:14 AM1 votes

Udyr is kinda a mess He has high single target with Q He has sustain and survivability with W He has one form of hard cc, and also a slight way to close gaps with E and finally has some waveclear/jungle clear with R He does so many things, but can't do one of the properly. His Q is too weak, his W shield scales with ap (The lifesteal is a little strong), his E stun is not long,and is his only gap closer/croud control with ganks, and his ult damage is just too low. He is like Karma (odd comparison, but hear me out) She can do a lot of things, but none of them as effective as other champions

Diablo399810/14/2016, 2:23:45 AM1 votes

Hey, I don't know if you'll get this but could I ask you some questions about udyr and how you build him? @Udyr May Fire

Your Next Kill8/7/2016, 3:44:07 AM1 votes

Unrelated to the topic, but... is your name inspired by Memphis May Fire?

SwiftKitten888/7/2016, 3:49:20 AM1 votes

um.. uydr can pretty much 1v1 anyone at even gold... and you cant escape him unless you use a dash over a wall

Gosh Darn8/7/2016, 3:59:37 AM1 votes

He was only an issue because of Devourer, boots of swiftness, rageblade, and runic echoes. Now that devourer is gone, and the other items have been nerfed, they could completely revert the changes and he might go to like 52% winrate tops.

Sèx Craved Eve8/7/2016, 11:38:16 PM1 votes

You're not wrong. His clear is slower than Jax now, which is really sad considering Jax has no wave clear lol.

Very Hard Engage8/8/2016, 1:18:19 AM1 votes

http://i.imgur.com/bMDtogc.png

OneMustFall8/7/2016, 2:32:19 AM1 votes

I thought the nerfs in 6.4 were also good enough for the most part. I do think the HP regen nerf from 6.7 should stick but other than that the other changes should be reverted. I don't think they should kill the AP scaling on Udyr, I think if someone wants to go AP burst on Udyr, that's cool. Just make it so he's in more danger early on in his JG which I think the HP regen nerfs accomplished.