I get that the whole perma-root nonsense he eventually does is problematic but holy crap.
Capping the amount of spells he gets per passive proc is brutal, especially when the cap is a miserable 5. The guy revolves entirely around those windows and is basically a fucking potato outside them.
Ryze has issues, but this almost deletes him.
Hayaishi278 votesGood riddance.
Yuumi or Lose15 votesAs a Trundle main, thank the heavens!
BattleBalladeer9 votesTRUNDLE MAINS UNITE
http://img3.leaguecraft.com/skins/asset/skin_1346599022_760px_12441_1.jpg
(although I honestly haven't seen top lane ryze all preseason and if I did I'd just roam mid)
Ecodeath6 votesim just happy they nerfed trundle
FatTaco24 votesGood riddance.
That's not how you balance champions, the end goal is to make them at least playable when you cripple champions like Ryze just because he has a unbalanced nature doesn't make Riot look good. It makes them look incompetent at their job. Benching champions until later to give them spotlight time is a disgusting way to treat your characters and your fans. I am hoping they compensate on this nerf or rework him again this year.
Hayaishi214 votesThat's not how you balance champions, the end goal is to make them at least playable when you cripple champions like Ryze just because he has a unbalanced nature doesn't make Riot look good. It makes them look incompetent at their job. Benching champions until later to give them spotlight time is a disgusting way to treat your characters and your fans. I am hoping they compensate on this nerf or rework him again this year.
yes that's how it'll be in an ideal world.
But we are in the real world, where everything is ugly, i for one appreciate that Riot chooses keeping unbalanceable nightmares outside my games over "looking good" because that's how balance should be.
Ryze will have to wait for his rework.
Anidan6 votesHow many more people need a rework to be 'balanceable' according to the boards? There's a lot, I'm sure. Anyone unique or simple but effective is probably on the chopping block, from the looks of it.
Not trying to defend Ryze, but this attitude is pretty well all over the place on the boards.
Hayaishi25 votesHow many more people need a rework to be 'balanceable' according to the boards? There's a lot, I'm sure. Anyone unique or simple but effective is probably on the chopping block, from the looks of it.
Not trying to defend Ryze, but this attitude is pretty well all over the place on the boards.
Akali, Diana, Katarina, Azir, Fiddlesticks, Irelia, Rengar just to name a few.
Anidan7 votesThe list is far longer than that. The list spans 'most of the roster,' if the board was the head of balance and champion design.
Needless to say, there's a reason that Riot doesn't listen to even half the suggestions on the board.
Hayaishi23 votesThe list is far longer than that. The list spans 'most of the roster,' if the board was the head of balance and champion design.
Needless to say, there's a reason that Riot doesn't listen to even half the suggestions on the board.
Because most of the roster is shitty designed and becomes overpowered the moment the meta suits them.
Why do you think we've never seen a Velkoz meta or a Varus meta? Balanced and well designed champions don't need to be in every patch note getting nerfs/buffs because they can't be balanced nor need future rework plans.
ChaoticPinecone4 votesWe have seen a Varus meta once the cooldown on his Q started on the first charge, not at the end of the cast. Still pops up from time to time. Problem was the Fiora/Quinn/Graves/Poppy reworks that put assassins back into the spotlight. Corki fulfills a similar job (though more spam poke instead of hard-hitting poke), provides magic damage, and is safer.
But the reason we dont see a "Varus" stay at the top of the meta is because of his immobility. Very few immobile champions become meta.
Dairdrek3 votesyou know, now that you mention how immobile Varus is, I iust realized, my two favorite champions, are oiterally at the opposite end of the spectrum. Varus, immobile ad ranged. Kassadin, super fucking mobile, ap and melee.
Hellioning4 votesI've seen basically every single champion declared in need of a rework at some point or another. Except for the champs that Riot has stated are in need for a rework, presumably because no one actually knows what Urgot does.
Anidan3 votesEscargot skin for Urgot, I demand it.
Not relevant to anything, just a thought appeared in my head. ANYWAY!
Yeah, pretty much. Everyone needs reworks, until Riot says they're getting a rework, at which point the only people who want reworks for that champion just don't know how to counter that champion, and crap like that.
iainB853 votesExcept Riot consistently does this so I'm not sure what rock you've been living under. If a champion is a problem, they will nerf them into a subpar pick until they can get around to giving them proper attention. It's not the best model, but it's where we are at with an F2P game with so many damn champions now.
SpecterVonBaren7 votesThe issue is his "smash my face into my keyboard" playstyle. All of his abilities are low impact stat checks meant to be spammed without thought.
He's like the opposite of Thresh who people say would be viable if you took away all his numbers just because of his kit, when you take away Ryze's numbers you're left with nothing of value. He's on the same level as Poppy was, he has to be kept deliberately weak because he becomes a balance nightmare when he's at all strong.
I know people want to at least keep the core of a champion with a rework and that Ryze's shtick is smashing your keyboard, but it's a bad shtick that can't exist in the game.
FatTaco3 votesThe issue is his "smash my face into my keyboard" playstyle. All of his abilities are low impact stat checks meant to be spammed without thought.
He's like the opposite of Thresh who people say would be viable if you took away all his numbers just because of his kit, when you take away Ryze's numbers you're left with nothing of value. He's on the same level as Poppy was, he has to be kept deliberately weak because he becomes a balance nightmare when he's at all strong.
I know people want to at least keep the core of a champion with a rework and that Ryze's shtick is smashing your keyboard, but it's a bad shtick that can't exist in the game.
I agree with this, as a long Ryze player I loved the 2nd version of Ryze a lot more than this one, with this current one I now agree that because the game has not made drastic changes so Ryze can actually be a typical champion (for example Ryze being a spam mage being common place with other champions) then Ryze may need a drastic change again (his alpha and release kit was a lot different than what we know about him today) along with a real visual update and new kit. I will miss it very dearly if Ryze goes off his core themes and mechanics but if Riot really cannot make it work then a new champion with the name Ryze would be more healthier for the games future balance.
SpecterVonBaren1 votesThe other unique thing Ryze has that I think can and should be emphasized more is his mana scaling. They should roll with him being the most wizardy mage warlock magician in the game.
Maybe they could go all out and make him have unique scaling with all of the spell caster stats, maybe he could gain AD equal to a portion of his AP, health equal to a portion of his mana, and health regen equal to a portion of his mana regen?
Maybe make him have very poor AP scalings but increase his mana scalings so mana is essentially AP for him and then tune him so that he's a tanky DPS mage that can output a lot of damage over a long fight but has no real burst.
Or maybe "rip off" Dota and give him Rubick's ult so that he can be the master magician that can instantly replicate a spell if he sees someone else use it.
Maybe give Ryze four low level spells that work like the magic system in Eternal Darkness with him chaining his spells in a certain order to make an additional but powerful effect?
FatTaco1 votesThe other unique thing Ryze has that I think can and should be emphasized more is his mana scaling. They should roll with him being the most wizardy mage warlock magician in the game.
Maybe they could go all out and make him have unique scaling with all of the spell caster stats, maybe he could gain AD equal to a portion of his AP, health equal to a portion of his mana, and health regen equal to a portion of his mana regen?
Maybe make him have very poor AP scalings but increase his mana scalings so mana is essentially AP for him and then tune him so that he's a tanky DPS mage that can output a lot of damage over a long fight but has no real burst.
Or maybe "rip off" Dota and give him Rubick's ult so that he can be the master magician that can instantly replicate a spell if he sees someone else use it.
Maybe give Ryze four low level spells that work like the magic system in Eternal Darkness with him chaining his spells in a certain order to make an additional but powerful effect?
I really like your imagination of how they could completely change Ryze, my favorite is being a sustain mage with no real burst but can build tanky, that sounds super fun in my opinion and kind of makes sense for Ryze as he is a spell slinging mage who roams by himself and has to get up close and personal. I had an idea they could do recently on totally reworking Ryze from the ground up but explain it through lore. I'll just quickly explain, he protects his Scroll as it has magic that he doesn't want anyone else to have so what if in his rework lore he loses the scroll or someone finally destroys it for good and he starts to forget all his previous magic because it's no longer attached to his body (the tattoos wear off or he just goes insane) and now he relearns new magic and that's why like your idea he can't burst people down and becomes more of a tanky mage XD Riot could do a lot with a full on rework for Ryze and I'd honestly be okay with it because this current Ryze is never going to work and I miss old Ryze and I'll never get it back so screw it, I'd rather have every spell be different than try to keep this Ryze we have now working.
Neo Cyrus2 votesSeriously, this will finally open up 1 pick or 1 ban in the LCK.
Quadle14 votesContrary to popular belief, Ryze stopped being "SMASH KEYBOARD TO WIN" after his rework and it actually takes a lot of finger speed and precision to fully maximize his passive. I mean it's not heart surgery but it's harder than it seems, and this nerf just gutted the only reason i played him because i was actually able to get 7-8 spell casts off in one rotation.
funny guy13 votes
Serika Zero14 votesMeanwhile at Riot and friends: Lets buff Xin, we don't have any 'tanky' assassins anymore since the Rengar nerf.
Nuparu4 votes[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmnhE4Yd,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2016-02-03T00:09:37.547+0000)
Meanwhile at Riot and friends: Lets buff Xin, we don't have any 'tanky' assassins anymore since the Rengar nerf.
woah there buddy we still have Diana and Jax
DragoonRuin3 voteswoah there buddy we still have Diana and Jax
I agree with Jax, too much stun and damage mitigation. Diana on the other hand is literally ALL IN, kill or be killed. She has a small shield, and thats literally it. No escape, no invulnerability, no stun, just Kill or Die. :-/ She's much more balanced than Jax.
Quepha9 votesWhy did they rework ryze to make his damage a skillshot but his snare still targeted and unavoidable?
Im Duke Nukem25 votesbecause league of mobility ? it needs counters like this snare or maokai's or even taric stun
they are needed to stop these annoying stupid dashes
Penns8 votesAlsmost as bad as halving your biggest damage source at rank 1, removing one of your key mechanics, reducing your attack range, reducing the duration of your passive stacks and a "bug fix".. amirite? kek
Crossette3 votesi'm blanking on who you're referring to
Abyssphere4 votesi'm blanking on who you're referring to
He's talking about Tahm Kench. Because someone getting nerfed several times over like 10 patches is totally comparable to someone being gutted in a single patch.
WadeWilson13377 votesTahm Kench is the epitamy of no counterplay and antifun. Its not even that hes strong its just a "Oh my god they have that cancer champ again". Any champion that can potentially DOUBLE his health pool and get damage for stacking health is retarded, not to mention how annoying his slows are, not even including the stuns and THAT INFURIATING GOD DAMN DEVOUR ABILITY OMG WT - Okay, im good.
Dairdrek1 votesTahm still has to get all three stacks off to eat you... Just dodge his q, and stay out of auto range of your a ranged champ, if you're melee, well idk, just let him eat someone else first.
Arsenic Sulfur7 votesRULE OF BLITZCRANK: NEVER ASSUME X WILL NEVER LAND Y!
Abyssphere3 votesAlsmost as bad as halving your biggest damage source at rank 1, removing one of your key mechanics, reducing your attack range, reducing the duration of your passive stacks and a "bug fix".. amirite? kek
Tahm got all of those nerfs gradually because after every nerf he still needed more. This Ryze nerf is comparable to Tahm getting all of his nerfs in one patch when he already sucked.
blfUvZ8Ybu6 votesBut Fiora,Lux are untouchable champions.Actually they should be nerf.
AngelFrost002 votesDUDE WHY YOU OBSESSED WITH NERFING FIORA AND LUX I KNOW THEY BROKEN AS HELL BUT DUDE.
Maszii2 voteslux aint broken though :D
AngelFrost002 votesMaszii1 votessorry nope.
AngelFrost001 votesFOR THE HALF OF DEMECIA I SHALL PUNISH YOU!!!!! Shes not that broken, but really ulti 1 shot 10/10
Maszii1 votesThat was a q/passive/ult combo. Any fed mage vs a squishy with no mr items can do that :).
Smitemuffin4 votesHe was still awful before this nerf. A mid-range mage who got massive waveclear, cc and damage nerfs after a rework that removed his tankiness and core mechanics until he's able to cast 5 spells? Yeah, he's just terrible now until level 16. And now he's going to be terrible afterward too.
Nidalee SO NYAAA4 votesPlease don't unlike Ryze was not a issue. He has zero counter play if he goes top. He can just bind someone for so long they can't fight. When Nidalee on nerfed people said good riddance and now here I say good riddance to Ryze
Only Play Darius3 votesThe Ryze rework was utter shit, did nothing but make him much harder to play and even more unbalanceable. Good thing he's getting another rework soon
junglerboy162 votesUntil they give him a proper full scale rework, he's still going to have the same problems and he's either going to be abusively strong or have to be handicapped badly enough to not degrade the rest of the game.
It's just better this way.
FatTaco2 votesI get a bit irritated that Riot chooses to explain nerfs and changes for other champions for example Soraka but we won't get 1 Rioter in here to tell us what's up with this change and if it's final or just a PBE test. There's a few posts on the forums pointing this nerf out and reddit posts with hundreds of replies all discussing the doom of this champion yet Riot will not discuss what this will do to the champion, I'd really like to know if they think he'd be playable after this and if there are any future updates for Ryze this month. This favoritism on game balance insight is really annoying. I feel like as a game developer if you make changes that are experimental like this and people can test it out for themselves you need to explain why you want this change so the community can get a good idea about why it may or may not be needed. Xin Zhao only just recently got a response because of crazy amount of backlash, do we really need to heat up our pitch forks that much to get a simple explanation about a change?
Personally for me it looks like Riot gives the cold shoulder when they really don't have to. I am open for a Ryze change but let's talk about it first, I don't like it when a champion is out right dead until they find a way to solve it. We should get a change now! There should be a very small balance team built just for Ryze. A 1.6 billion dollar company can't make this happen? Another example I'll give is Mordekaiser, no one plays him now at all, Riot seem like they are in the mood to change him again but it's slow ... again. Another dead champion. It's times like this that I really question why I support this company and continue playing this game I can see so many other companies do PR and really communicate on their changes in a more respectful and dignifying way. I guess I just have a problem with favoritism.
basketcase912 votesOk so listen. I was master tier and best Ryze in the world last season for about 4 months and i know ryze like I know myself. If this nerf goes through ryze will become the worst champion in the history of lol. He will not be be able to survive in lane against almost any match up. He will have 0 kill potential and no real way to outrade or outplay his opponent. That is somewhat ok if he can actually scale to something strong later in the game like old ryze did. Ryze is broken don't get me wrong. For me I feel like as long as I do everything right I cant loose against any match up. Ryze before the rework and before the small q buff was better than this Ryze in the Pbe. I played him a lot then and got diamond only with that "nerfed" Ryze. My idea of a nerf is very simple and effective. I don't get how riot didn't even think about it. So here it is. Remove the CD he gets from ult. Make him Gain Passive duration from CD. Therefore he goes in lane with 0 CD lets say and the duration of his passive 3s. For every 10% cd he get 0.5 s increase. Therefore at 40CD he will have his 5s passive duration as it is in live. The difference is that this would occur only when ryze has lets say ionian boots, frozen heart and let’s say 10 cd from a maxed q like old ryze had. This will make him scale slower but will keep his late game intact to an extent. The difference here is that he wont be able to rush seraphs second after rod since he will need the cdr for his passive forcing him to buy FH or morelo which lowers his dmg output early in the game. To compensate a bit I believe that his mana ratios should go up a bit but other than that I think he ll be ok. You will not be able to all in someone at level 9 like now but at least ull be able to defend yourself with that FH or spirit visage that will help you scale into the late game. I just came up with this so I don’t think its flawless. What do you think? On a side note, riot's comment that ryze is too cheap to be complex and have a high skill cap for beginners is just absurd and childish. Make another champion 450rp and increase ryze's cost then.
H 31 votesOk so listen. I was master tier and best Ryze in the world last season for about 4 months and i know ryze like I know myself. If this nerf goes through ryze will become the worst champion in the history of lol. He will not be be able to survive in lane against almost any match up. He will have 0 kill potential and no real way to outrade or outplay his opponent. That is somewhat ok if he can actually scale to something strong later in the game like old ryze did. Ryze is broken don't get me wrong. For me I feel like as long as I do everything right I cant loose against any match up. Ryze before the rework and before the small q buff was better than this Ryze in the Pbe. I played him a lot then and got diamond only with that "nerfed" Ryze. My idea of a nerf is very simple and effective. I don't get how riot didn't even think about it. So here it is. Remove the CD he gets from ult. Make him Gain Passive duration from CD. Therefore he goes in lane with 0 CD lets say and the duration of his passive 3s. For every 10% cd he get 0.5 s increase. Therefore at 40CD he will have his 5s passive duration as it is in live. The difference is that this would occur only when ryze has lets say ionian boots, frozen heart and let’s say 10 cd from a maxed q like old ryze had. This will make him scale slower but will keep his late game intact to an extent. The difference here is that he wont be able to rush seraphs second after rod since he will need the cdr for his passive forcing him to buy FH or morelo which lowers his dmg output early in the game. To compensate a bit I believe that his mana ratios should go up a bit but other than that I think he ll be ok. You will not be able to all in someone at level 9 like now but at least ull be able to defend yourself with that FH or spirit visage that will help you scale into the late game. I just came up with this so I don’t think its flawless. What do you think? On a side note, riot's comment that ryze is too cheap to be complex and have a high skill cap for beginners is just absurd and childish. Make another champion 450rp and increase ryze's cost then.
Yeah I agree he can as of right now do 15-20 spells on his passive at max rank or around that and to nerf it to a measly 5 is such an insane nerf. Looking at his scaling and base damages he needs to be able to spam to do a lot. They could of made it 10 or nerfed his base damages again and made the root have diminishing returns or even lower it to a flat 1 second at all ranks or something. I feel like riot could balance things better and instead of insane overnerfs they could a good size nerf then if it's still a problem do some more. How many times in the past has riot made a champion mega weak or insane just from some buffs or nerfs? I honestly believe there could be far more number tweaks more often than changing so many at once to being OP status or garbage. If somethings a problem you try to fix it instead of just demolishing it but I guess people can't seem to understand that and allow feelings to take over or hate towards a certain champion.
Blastermine1 votesIs this the third time that Ryze got nerfed for being too strong in competitive play even though he has a low solo queue win-rate? It sure feels like it.
TurquoiseYoshi2 votes
short list of champions that get/got nerfed repeatedly because of pro play. Ryze is in no way a special snowflake.
