This is WHY people don't like the changes.

Dragko·Nov 13, 2015·98 votes·6,736 views

people do not like changes(that is a big part of it)
the masteries of the game force you to play how riot wants you to play. I cant max my attack speed and my cooldown? What kinda mess is that?
Riot has been taking away peoples abilities to build champions in different and unique ways. Back then it worked, but when you take that away you are basically saying "We want you to play THIS WAY and if you deviate from our wishes your game will be crappy"
The jungle is consistently getting harder and harder. The idea is that junglers have it too easy so they continue to tweak it to make the jungler have a hard day.
Too many items got removed. This does have to do with the whole "we no like change" but it also screws over a lot of people. especially the AD junglers who build warrior and wanted the armor pen.It was bad enough that it was the only one without an op special enchantment.
The changes to some champions just further my point, For example Kog'Maw lowering his ap ratio and basically taking away his ability to actually use his ult. This reflected the way Riot changed runeglaive just so Ezreal couldn't use it for ap.

The masteries again do not help ap laners very much. I had all the pages opened up for all these different champions and now I really don't even need any of those but maybe 4.

This honestly isn&#039;t all the reasons people don&#039;t like the direction of the game right now but these are some factors. Its really sad because I hear this talk of &quot;Champion diversity&quot;, but what about &quot;Player diversity.&quot; Honestly I played adc Kog&#039;Maw very few times because his ult doesn&#039;t do as much dmg but he does have a good early game as ad and a poor early game as ap. But I loved being able to feel smart and act like actual artillery and rain fire on my enemies from behind either a wall or a wall of my allies. This was taken from me and I feel jipped of an experience. Of course you could argue with me for 6 days about how he is still a viable mid ap. But the fact of the matter is he will never be where he was once because I am forced to use his auto attacks. instead of his abilities because obviously AD is stronger than AP on him.....

109 Comments

RisenDarkKnightNov 13, 201534 votes

None of these reason are really what most people don't like. It's that towers are incredibly weak so games end extremely quickly and are one-sided. A large part of league of legends was late game teamfighting and strategy and that entire phase has basically been removed. It's all about early game laning/ganks and a small bit about mid game powerspikes/teamfighting.

Specter027Nov 13, 201512 votes

I agree. It's not even "Teamfighting" so much as about small skirmishes, rotation from a winning lane and random picks turn into huge swings or the fed guy killing your most ahead guy. I also never seem to get any items built. Late game, team fights, vision control seem to be things chucked to the side.

RisenDarkKnightNov 13, 20154 votes

True. I figure high elo players should at least get some legitimate teamfights, but even the high elo steamers that I've watched agree that games are way shorter and stompier. Even LCS players are having trouble making any comebacks this patch.

Static DuckNov 14, 20152 votes

same

Kitten of EvilNov 13, 20153 votes

Yeah, it feels like if you back once, your tower will be gone by the time you're back unless you bring TP. I feel like I HAVE to play pushers just to keep my tower. The fact that Kayle and Malzahar both do great against Yasuo is just a cherry on top, since he's in every game.

RisenDarkKnightNov 13, 20151 votes

Yeah even ap champs can take towers really quickly. You now do 50% of your ap as damage instead of ad (if it's more than your ad) and, since towers dont' have armor anymore, you can 3-4 shot towers as an ap champ if you have around 800 ap. Of course, most games are over well before you can get 800 ap but you can still kill them much faster than last patch.

Zethuriah FoxNov 13, 20154 votes

I'm averaging enough gold for 300 ap by game finish now. Full builds are a thing of the past, you're lucky if you get a match and have 2 full items and boots now.

ayNigerianPrinceNov 14, 20151 votes

I can't believe how long games are in Bronze-Silver. I almost was able to finish my milkbuild poppy last night. item 3158 item 3078 item 3146 item 3031 item 3046

Zethuriah FoxNov 18, 20151 votes

Except the last 2 items were disabled since the day after the 5.22 patch.

ayNigerianPrinceNov 19, 20151 votes

Thinking back I guess I didn't finish the phantom dancers; just two zeals.

ForgotToShootNov 16, 20151 votes

It was noted the towers being so much squishier was a miscommunication between devs and design teams. It should be fixed soon.

RisenDarkKnightNov 16, 20151 votes

Really? Do you have a link? I was under the impression it was intentional to make lcs games less boring. (they sometimes have low action).

Earl EulrichNov 13, 201520 votes

\8. weaker turrets really limit the comeback chances, as inhibitors can fall after a bad fight at min 15 already 9. less vision overall leads to very snowbally games - the new system seems to be tuned for a lcs-jungle-sightstone meta, but it just doesn´t work like that in SoloQ 10. masteries and item-changes mostly benefit AD (and mostly critusers of that spectrum), while AP feel sorta discriminated 11. the item-changes took away actual diversity (non-crit marksmen had been a thing before to some extend, now there´s no way to not go crit anymore - also effectivly hurting ad-casters like jayce)

Kitten of EvilNov 13, 20153 votes

less vision overall leads to very snowbally games

I hate this part so much. Before the changes, I would usually have 2 or 3 wards up, even as a mid-laner. Now, though, that is impossible unless you buy pink wards or blue trinket, which can be easily taken out. Unless I go for item 2301 on my mid-laner, I have no way to keep vision up and comfortably push.

MorcleonNov 14, 20151 votes

you should be buying pink wards though xD

Kitten of EvilNov 14, 20153 votes

And I do, but deep warding is now difficult because they'll just take out your deep wards.

MorcleonNov 14, 20151 votes

pinks can't really be used as deep wards, but rather as a defensive line to protect against enemy deep wards. and then if your team gets control further into enemy territory, then you can start placing pink wards deeper in.

Stiv1234Nov 14, 20152 votes

Thats basically what he said.

DragkoNov 28, 20151 votes

#StuffIDidNOTAdd

alfavhunterNov 13, 201513 votes

They need to make an ap Mage keystone

Idea

After using 5 spells your next auto attack restores 15% of your missing mana and 1.5% of the targets max HP as magic damage per 100 AP

With the removal of mana potions this keystone would be amazing on some mid laners for mana regen and damage, while being balanced in the fact that it takes 5 spells and its bonus damage scales on AP, nullifying the ability for AD casters to use this part of it

It also keeps it as magic damage letting MR still help negate it

It also has less burst effect vs squishy targets and helps them kill tanks

This is strong for both spam mages and burst because burst will get more AP, spammers will get to use the effect more

This change is also good because it enforces that mages should try to get some AA damage in when spells are on CD

This keystone would also put champions who are currently weak like Cass into a better spot with better mana regen mechanics

Edit: this would likely go into the cunning tree

sreggadNov 13, 20152 votes

so basically you want a cooldownless thunderlord with possibly more damage and essentially 10 free procs from meditation? hell better than a coodownless thunderlord because you can clear minions with spells and poke the enemy champion. while regaining a lot of mana.

People keep complaining about DFT and thunderlord and they compare it to warlords but warlords is too strong. thunder goes great with burst mages and dft goes great for sustained damage.

SpoofghoulNov 13, 20153 votes

Why is warlords too strong?

Maybe all other kaystones are too weak.

Riot should buff the other keystones instead of nerfing warlords that would be better.

sreggadNov 13, 20154 votes

because 15% heal with a 20% attack speed on a crit with a 2s cooldown is too strong. I'm not saying gut it but at least put it on a 4 second cooldown. so there is a chance your not gonna combo the attackspeed together so you never lose the buff.

HolyWrathNov 16, 20151 votes

Yeah because yasuo weaving in and out of your minion wave after almost killing him only to come out full health is a little bit ridiculous

sreggadNov 17, 20151 votes

putting it on a longer cooldown would limit the healing it could do.

HolyWrathNov 23, 20151 votes

I agree, they really need to raise the CD on his e too

Zethuriah FoxNov 13, 20151 votes

Except azir, "the sustain damage mage" his soldiers don't proc it at all.

sreggadNov 13, 20151 votes

that's because his "soldiers" are modified attacks.

Zethuriah FoxNov 18, 20151 votes

That count as spells, and don't proc on hit effects which dft is not. That's a but inconsistent. Using Q, e, or r will proc it. But the spell hit autos don't. Meanwhile brand and cass proc it and refresh it with every single dot tick. That's a bit stupid if you ask me.

sreggadNov 19, 20151 votes

All I was saying is it's a modified attack. Which is why I would assume it doesn't proc it. While yes it's "a spell" it's also an AA. Maybe it's unintended maybe it's intended. I don't know. I'm just saying a possible reason it doesn't work.

Zethuriah FoxNov 19, 20151 votes

Yeah i know, roit is just inconsistent with procs. Example, recently they allowed azir to proc rage blade and devourer because the condiation only states when you basic attack, however he cant proc farvor or about 4 other procs that only state "basic attacks" as condiation.

I honestly wish they made azir ad with onhit instead of mage with spell proc.

PabloMaster54321Nov 14, 20156 votes

This game has gone a lot downhill since it started, i had a ton of fun in season 3 though. I honestly dont know why riot bothers doing this stuff everyone hates it but apparently riot doesnt care what the people think.

HolyWrathNov 14, 20152 votes

They don't care, all they care about doing is asking lcs players what they want in the game and they cater to them.

kaellidorNov 13, 20155 votes

you are somewhere in the ball park of my feelings on the patch!

DreadlocksNov 13, 20155 votes

I hate the bounty system. I know i'll prob catch some flack for this but it feels like riot is making it harder and harder for someone to individually carry a game.

ThePartyLeaderNov 13, 20153 votes

Forcing gold down your teammates throats through new bounty and faster turrets does help you carry them though.

LordGeovanniNov 13, 20154 votes

the game isnt ment to be single person carry and its because people try to do that. that teamwork suffers because people think as long as i can get out i can carry and when they cant they blame the teammates they didnt help

DreadlocksNov 13, 20152 votes

Yeah but expecting a bunch of random people to play in a professional team working way is to me wrong. I'm not saying I wasn't a team player or that I solo carried every game. I'm saying sometimes my team relied on my snowball to carry the game, and that has been nerfed.

James UbersomNov 13, 20155 votes

The jungle got nerfed dude.

SquirrellyOtterNov 13, 20154 votes

So why am I getting executed on my third camp when i could very comfortably solo three camps before?

blkKalameetNov 13, 20152 votes

The changes to the masteries. We lost a lot of early game damage from them, so the clears are that much harder.

The Yetii RiderNov 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=James Ubersom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EkrQA07e,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-13T12:12:48.203+0000)

The jungle got nerfed dude.

But the jungle being nerfed makes it harder to jungle. It's significantly easier for enemy laners to invade, drop a ward, steal a camp and get out, and ADCs/assassins can invade and kill you in the jungle.

Also all the jungle enchants got more expensive, which means you wait longer before getting bonus XP.

Specter027Nov 13, 20155 votes

Couldn't agree more with No. 2. The choices are "meaningful" in that I'm pissed I can't take things I want or I'm forced to spend 5 points on something that I see no value in. For instance, as a Jungler, both T1 Ferocity talents would be excellent. Attack Speed for autoing monsters, Spell DMG for nuking them and champs. Feast actually works for junglers now, but I'm stuck choosing between it and double-edged, which hurts in Jungle but is great for ganks. At T3 I'm deciding between two piss-poor masteries, Vamp which is negligible for when I need sustain (early) and Natural Talent which scales but doesn't help at all early.

No. 4 is right on. How to explain... in some ways I feel like the Jungler got stronger. He can snowball like crazy. Can really crush a lane. Not being able to purchase vision wards seems to create more gank opportunities. But, the Jungle and Jungle Items and Jungle Masteries seemed to have gotten nerfed into oblivion.

Jungle is still a pain in the ass to clear and can set me way behind the enemy lanes if my laner screws up. Upgraded jungle item feels more expensive, but gold per monster kill was removed from jungle item too, so that could be it. And don't get me started on potions. Health Pots being more expensive is something I feel on every back. Tier 1 Rechargeable feels like noob trap (buying it and knife instead of 3 Pots is missing 200+ HP on first clear). Hunters Pot underwhelming at best and feels like it slows my power spikes WAY down.

Finally, old Jungle Mastery pages were efficient as hell. 21/9, x/21/x, The mixed Udyr, I ran some 13/17/0 too on Volibear. I could always get some raw damage, attack speed and cdr to spam abilities when I had my first blue buff. Getting both buffed HP and reduced damage from monsters masteries was doable and efficient. The new mastery system seems like a clusterfuck to me as a jungler. When spec'ing a Jungler I often feel like I'm deciding between taking the Keystone I really want and giving up talents that'd help me early or taking the tree that helps me the most overall, even if it means giving up a really swanky Keystone.

I also agree with OP's final thought. I can't choose to do different things or bend a champion through runes and masteries to fit both the meta, team needs and my preference, but I'm being pigeon-holed and forced onto things that aren't enjoyable to play.

BixitsNov 13, 20153 votes

I agree with a lot of your post...but also wanted to add that I hate the new changes to the stealth ward trinket. I play mid and ALWAYS upgraded the 250g to get my new trinket around lvl 10. After a slight cooldown I could place 2 wards, and after another cooldown place a 3rd. I always tried to have 3 down at any given time. Now with the "new" trinket I can only place one ward. It the timer on the ward is 120 seconds yet the "cooldown" of the trinket is 120 seconds. When 1 ward is dead, I have 1 new ward to replace it with, it's not fast enough to place even two stealth wards at a time. This is so stupid. I always had both sides of river warded during the laning phase and if I went to bot to help I would ward dragon or tri bush if the support was out of wards. I get if you want to remove mana pots but I don't want to invest 500 gold to get the upgraded potion that provides mana. It's really crap that you then have to go and delete clarity too. I main Veigar and he is really mana heavy, I always got 2-3 mana pots at start and took teleport and clarity. I would be able to sustain in lane until lvl 6-8 until I had to go back. I like the ADC changes but please change the ward trinket and allow clarity-to allow mid laners the ability to have mana sustain without investing in another item. Also, for the argument about people saying to buy pinks, that's great until you have a full build or all slots taken up. I'm not going to buy sightstone as a midlaner and it's not the supports job to ward everything, as they can only put 3 down at a time. Also to add that the new AP starting item is broken-as of yesterday morning would not grant any bonus AP on kill or assist.

Amta317Nov 13, 20153 votes

I'm just upset with the changes in general. It ruins game play for me. I play support and I wont be able to make good enough gold to support anymore. I guess i'll be sticking with aram now.

SolaxoNov 13, 20153 votes

Making changes isn't always bad, but Riot's changes are too big. Which caused some sudden clusterf*ck

killerkriskgNov 13, 20153 votes

What I hate about these new changes are the ward changes. seriously, these new wards that upgrade themselves are beyond useless. I would much rather prefer spending 250 gold every game I reach lvl 9 for two, reliable and very cost efficient wards at my disposal. The stealth wards were also useful but are replaced with vision wards now, That's kinda ok but you only get to put one down before the previous one gets destroyed.

Back to the trinket, I am not buying sightstone on anyone other than jungler or support just to get a reliable source of vision. The trinket rarely reaches 2 stacks and their decay time is off putting, especially since they still look like ugly 60 second wards that die instantly and provide little to no beneficial vision. When I hit lvl 9, I have a very confident play-style since I know I have self-service vision. Now? I look down at my trinket to see a stupid 3 hour cooldown at what feels like every level, then I see 1 or 2 vision wards that I know will only go so far.

I don't like pestering supports for vision, but apparently riot want to turn supports into vision bots again.

I supposed most of this is because I play vision reliant champs a lot, mainly Katarina Syndra but even when I play Riven Fiora and other fairly intimidating champs, I hate having to cling close to my team because the map is pitch black due to a lack of wards on my... well, everyone's end.

ofartNov 13, 20153 votes

I'm really sad that AP Kog doesn't work anymore as either poke or an AS on-hit champion. He is dead as a mid laner and already was plenty unique. My favorite champion was deleted overnight.

HolyWrathNov 14, 20152 votes

Yep. They asked an lcs player what they thought and catered to their wants like little spoiled brats.