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This new jungle is terrible.

DudeEDM·11/30/2014, 10:43:02 AM·1 votes·905 views

Where do I begin,

First off, I have some issues regarding champions that were once viable that now seem not so good in the jungle. I found as of recent that trying to play aggressive heavy-gank junglers are not an option due to the lack of gold from camps. Junglers now seem to be poorer than we have ever been, trying to get an early gank off with champions such as MonkeyKing Pantheon or even Khazix is extremely difficult due to the lack of gold which we need in order to keep up with our laners (the loss of conservation doesn't help).

On top of that, the amount of damage that these camps do is rediculous, I find that even though I start Gromp or Golems, then move towards my buffs, that I end up having to back pre-maturely leaving me with only enough gold for my initial jungle item. This makes champions with sustain very overpowered when it comes to the jungle, champions such as Warwick or Fiddlesticks. I understand that they wanted to add more of a strategic edge to the game, but this is a bit much, due to these changes it makes jungling with aggressive gank reliant junglers with not great sustain early game not very viable. I've been messing around with different champions, but from what i've noticed junglers without at least some type of early game sustain tend to suffer in the long run.

Now i'm aware that you are able to go from small camp to small camp in order to make early game a little easier, but this still doesn't help the fact that if you're going against a high sustain jungler such as Warwick Fiddlesticks MasterYi hell even Rengar it opens up your buffs to getting stolen quite easily because by the time you finish your first 2 small camps you will have to back due to not being able to finish a buff with the amount of health you're normally left off with, either making you have to start Golems followed by red buff, or making you risk losing a buff due to having to back pre-maturely (not having 5 health potions at game start doesn't make things easier whatsoever)

I find that where they thought to improve the numbers of champions that can be used in the jungle, or to try and re-kindle some old junglers that people didn't find viable such as Nunu or Zac they actually lessened the number of viable junglers, which saddens me because I enjoyed my aggressive early ganking junglers such as Vi MonkeyKing Pantheon and Khazix.

Now, I'm not saying that these junglers are completely useless, just that they are not extremely viable due to early game being a pain in the ass.

Also, with the changes to dragon as you can see below:

  1. Dragon's Might: +8% attack damage and ability power
  1. Dragon's Dominance: +15% damage to minions and monsters
  2. Dragon's Flight: +5% movement speed
  3. Dragon's Wrath: +15% damage to towers and buildings
  1. Aspect of the Dragon: Doubles all previous bonuses and your attacks burn for 150 true damage over 5 seconds. This stack only lasts 180 seconds.

I found that the team that ends up getting the first dragon of the game, tends to have a very distinct advantage, and with champions such as Fiddlesticks who can solo dragon at level 5 fairly easily makes this buff a little overpowered, it's essentially a soloable permanent baron buff without the mana / hp regen. Whereas previously, you would get awarded with global gold, which wouldn't give your team / enemy team a major advantage with anything other than items, which can be countered by good farming and tower pushes, making a comeback possible.

Another issue I find (not really related to the jungle at all), is that with the changes to the towers, solo split pushing to try and force your enemy team away from objectives isn't really possible anymore, with the decreased gold from towers and the 'backdoor protection' making trying to stop solo split push a waste of time, especially when you have all 5 teammates ready to push lanes and potentially force a 5v4 teamfight,

This is all my opinion on the new rift, which I understand will be changed and altered due to this only being the beta, but these are problems I believe need to be fixed, either more gold on jungle camps, decreased jungle camp damage, or decreased health on jungle camps to compensate for the lack of gold and lack of sustainability for a good chunk of junglers. Also, the dragon changes are interesting and if altered correctly might be viable, I would still prefer the global gold in order to make comebacks somewhat possible if behind on dragons, instead of trying to contest dragon against a team you're losing to (which normally ends in you losing the dragon anyways).

Anyways, rant concluded. I thank anyone who actually took the time to read this wall of text.

7 Comments

FiendOfOne11/30/2014, 1:26:54 PM2 votes

Pantheon is doing level 1 dragon.

Amumu seems to do well, and he has no sustain.

ScalyManChard11/30/2014, 10:56:14 AM1 votes

Rengar has trouble jungling until he grabs a few items. Vi actually sustains really well and can put pressure on early. Pantheon seems to be doing well too.

Some (WW) are broken, so we can discount them - assuming they are going to fix him. Besides that I kinda like the tougher jungle.

It forces tougher decisions. Remember that, if it's harder for you to pressure early, it's harder for the enemy jungler too. In S4 it was way way too easy for someone like Lee Sin to fully clear his jungle and gank at level 3 and constantly after that. I love having to make the decision "do I get level 3.5 and back, get level 2 and gank at full health, or get level 3 and gank at half health?". The meta may narrow this down to 1 choice eventually, but for now it's a nice change from my S4 Vi experience of "level 3 -> gank always".

Mostly I love the new jungle items. I hated the gold generation items. Now you don't have to invest thousands of gold into your jungle item unless you want to. I feel free, but with harder decisions to make.

Live2LetDie11/30/2014, 11:11:35 AM1 votes

Fiddlesticks won't be nerfed again for one reason and that's his ganks are non existent. He can't run into lane so his ult is his only gank potential and one or two wards stop this completely. If they have a fiddle expect early drag and play against it. You must adapt to each game.

What's wrong with last season junglers not being viable anymore? That's why its last season.. Adapt and learn this season meta which seems to be sustain junglers. They don't need to fix the jungle so last season meta champs are meta again.

Leti the Yeti11/30/2014, 10:45:59 AM1 votes

i found that successful ganks/accidental kills helped out with the lack of income from jungles as rammus, i dont need gold lol i just need bump a guy, taunt him, and not die hoping they do

luckily thanks to black welfare option for junglers, i received 3 biscuits frm obama and that rlly helps

MagnusMentula11/30/2014, 11:35:16 AM1 votes

I have no issues on Vi or Shyvana, both of which have no real sustain. If I get a really good leash on Vi I can clear the whole jungle before backing.

xJLx MCHammer11/30/2014, 4:55:52 PM1 votes

OP you are wrong

This jungle is very balanced. Yes you have less gold income and it's harder but if you itemize right, getting skrimishers does something other items can't

Riot is not trying to make jungle a breeze and once again go to the point where a champ with strong hanks can also clear jungle, it defeats purpose of champs like shyvana who can clear but can't gank

Yes certain champs have it pretty easy now like Warwick which Riot has agreed will occur with some champs. They even forsaw it and increased his ult CD but it wasn't enough. They will follow up don't worry

Your complaint seems more geared towards a few champs who slip through the cracks so you blame the system. The system is much better than s4 jungle

DudeEDM11/30/2014, 11:30:55 AM1 votes

It's not that I wish the meta champions to be meta again, I just wish for last seasons champs to be at least viable against these sustain junglers that seem to be taking over the jungle.