Riot's vain attempts to introduce outplay potential

Gnar Is A Cat··1 votes·4,254 views

These were the champions released and reworked in 2015 and 2016: Kindred Gangplank Fiora Poppy Ekko Bard Illaoi Tahm Kench Jhin Kled Aurelion Sol Ivern Taliyah Camille Shen Taric Yorick

In my opinion, these were the golden years, where most to all of the champions had something new in terms of mechanics, were relatively balanced (ignore immediate release cause anyone around in 2015 will remember release Ekko) and wouldn't kill you in a single ability. (also notice how only six of them have out of combat dashes and none of them have invis). Compare that to the champion releases (and reworks) in 2018 and 2019: Swain Akali Irelia Aatrox Kaisa Pyke Nunu & Willump Aphelios Senna Yuumi Sylas Qiyana Kayle Morgana Neeko 5 of them have invis and 6 of them have out of combat dashes (Irelia isn't out of combat but still insanely mobile in combat). And almost every single one of them with the exceptions of the tanks and supports: Nunu, Yuumi, Kayle, Morgana, can or has one shot someone.

Riot is constantly pumping out new champs with 'new' stuff to introduce outplay potential. But really, it's not new, and there's no outplaying getting one shot. As much as it's not that fun if every single champ has a dash and a stealth and an execute and can 1 shot you, I'd be tempted to say the major lack of true enjoyment in League for me comes from the power creep. If Akali couldn't one shot someone and you saw an Akali play around her shroud and 'dance' around everyone, it would be the next "Faker, what, was, that?" But everyone has dashes, everyone has invis, and everyone one shots you. There's no skill expression in killing someone within 0.5 seconds coming straight out of invis from 2 screens away. Faker's famous 1v1 was awesome for a reason, no one had seen a skill level that high. He didn't one shot Ryu, and he 'danced' around him perfectly.

You'd also be surprised as how much more viable comebacks might become if your entire team doesn't just get one shot by that Vlad or Kat

Nerf damage across the entire board. If you nerf damage globally, you will be surprised at the level of skill expression that re-emerges. Because mages don't get one shot and actually have an opportunity to fight back and outplay the assassin trying to kill them, you'll see Cassio and Ori and Syndra re-emerge because they have insanely high skill caps, and insanely high outplay potential. And if that assassin still manages to get you, you can at least sit back and think, "That Zed is really ****ing good, he landed all his q's, slotted his e's and autos perfectly into his combo, and used his shadows and flash to dodge everything I had." That's, an outplay.

29 Comments

Kaisha5 votes

Riot's never attempted to do anything. They just randomly change whatever sht they feel like changing, then make up silly excuses on the boards. They buff/nerf champs on a whim, or because someone kicked their ass in game, or to sell skins.

Posui Gart4 votes

Fiora Ekko Tahm Kench

Ah yes, the examples of perfect balance and good design

ignore immediate release cause anyone around in 2015 will remember release Ekko

Idk, Ekko wasn't really balanced at any time.

you'll see Cassio and Ori and Syndra re-emerge because they have insanely high skill caps, and insanely high outplay potential

Cassiopeia already re-emerged and Ori never was out of meta

And if that assassin still manages to get you, you can at least sit back and think, "That Zed is really **ing good, he landed all his q's, slotted his e's and autos perfectly into his combo, and used his shadows and flash to dodge everything I had." That's, an outplay.

So, unless Zed is a smurf, he isn't supposed to get a kill at all? You can't really expect a class of champions that rely on snowballing to only be able to kill someone if they execute everything perfectly. Meanwhile we have a class of champions whose damage output is not reliant on skill at all, and they are only balanced by being squishy so they must position themselves perfectly. Lowering everyone's damage will make them much safer.

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

If an assassin hits everything, they deserve to kill you: you got outplayed. If they don't, then they don't deserve to kill you. Simple.

Also, lowering everyone's damage, includes the adc's. Which means they can't kill people immediately, which puts even more emphasis on positioning, which means they can't simply aa you or they die (or they kill you which is really a statement of how bad you are)

2gudaiya4 votes

wait, you're holding up fiora, tahm and poppy as brilliant pieces of design? KUEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE think i'll go browse da youtubes again. [sg-miss-fortune]

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

You're missing the point. Ye they may not be super balanced, but fiora has vitals, tahm can save an ally and has really good rotations with his r, and poppy can stop dashes and knock people really far away. They all have something unique or at the time of release new, that brought something interesting to the game: something you had to play around.

Unshakable3 votes

I hate that riot removed the ability to upvote posts, because I love like 90% of what you said, and the 10% that I didn't like was just the comment about mages being weak.

ZephyrDrake2 votes

you know that Morgana didn't change at all right? all she got was a graphical update. Her abilities don't behave any differently. The only thing she got was extra MS when she ults… which is largely pointless in most cases.

Also can you do something useful other than list names? and say useless info that is insanely false like Swain one shotting you? if a Swain is one shotting you then I feel incredibly sorry for you. Akali is an assassin. Do you know what an assassin is meant to do? and even her isn't able to kill you that fast anyways due to her needing to use her passive which requires her to constantly be moving away from you and going back towards you. Like I find this incredibly hilariously bad.

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

Morgana is the outlier here yes I'll admit that: my point is showing a general trend.

You obv forgot Swain's pre-gutting? He was busted on (reworked) release, he just had a low play rate. I played him, and I distinctly recall one shotting people.

Assassins are meant to kill you, I get that. But where is the counterplay in getting one shot. A good player vs a crappy assassin shouldn't die because they can outplay. But they usually do cause dmg is insanely high.

Also have you seen an akali q r an adc? cause I sure have. The point of akali's passive is, as you say, to slow down the time it takes for her to kill you because she has to move away from you and back towards you. But she doesn't need her passive to one shot someone squishy.

2gudaiya2 votes

every release, bar fiora, is beautiful. you are just a hater. stay mad, stay bad.

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

Idek what you're trying to say tbh

"bar fiora"

LanceTheJungler1 votes

I disagree with just nerfing all damage and no other changes. I believe that ADC's honestly just need to be completely removed as a class. They are what require burst in this game to be so high. Because if they aren't getting oneshot then they are putting out 300-600 damage auto attacks that heal them for 150 health per auto every .3 seconds. After that we can see to reducing assassins scaling so that snowballing isn't so much of an issue, and resistances are actually useful.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree with just nerfing all damage and no other changes. I believe that ADC's honestly just need to be completely removed as a class. They are what require burst in this game to be so high. Because if they aren't getting oneshot then they are putting out 300-600 damage auto attacks that heal them for 150 health per auto every .3 seconds. After that we can see to reducing assassins scaling so that snowballing isn't so much of an issue, and resistances are actually useful.

Talk about uninformed x)

A strong tank easily drops even a 800 damage auto down to 100-250 damage per hit(Depending on which tank&specific items) and few marksmen run more than 20-30% lifesteal lategame so they´ll heal 30-75 per hit.....which is completely or almost completely mitigated by thornmail depending on user.

They can run lifesteal in their runes and buy a BT but it becomes useless because the tank got a normal tank item, yay.

If hitting a target they can do 300 on that´s still just 60-90 health per hit, and thats by the time they have like 1500-2000 health and god forbid they only have 10% lifesteal, now they are actually taking damage trying to kill the enemy frontliner.

...

Any more bullshit you care to have cleaned out?

LanceTheJungler1 votes

Yeah and when was the last time you saw a tank that wasn't Ornn.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

On a side note, why is EU always so permamald.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah and when was the last time you saw a tank that wasn't Ornn.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

On a side note, why is EU always so permamald.

Engage support tanks are common, very common......rather they are the meta there.

Jungle? Rammus Nunu Zac

Toplane? Ornn, poppy, Maokai, malphite,Shen, singed all pop out from time to time and are statistically sound.

....

As for why EU is permamald? We have a low tolerance for bullshit and self delusions which is why you see so many of us dissing you ....maybe if you and other similar guys were a bit less muddle-headed and capable of looking at statistics to realize what reality is like then your pro´s would not have to go to Korea to have any shot at practicing their skills.

But nah keep going, maybe this year we´ll see NA drop out before the knockout stage or even send in a team without a single american in it xD

LanceTheJungler1 votes

Rammus is meta :)

Literally apart of the European Union and calling others delusional XDDDDDDDDDDDD

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

I feel like you contradicted yourself.

(Theoretically) I don't want riot to nerf damage.

I want riot to nerf adc damage because that's what is causing problems

??? You're literally agreeing with me in saying that we need to nerf damage

LanceTheJungler1 votes

Read.

I disagree with just nerfing all damage and no other changes.

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

Ok

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

Rammus is meta :)

Literally apart of the European Union and calling others delusional XDDDDDDDDDDDD

52% winrate in diamond with a 2% pickrate suggests that the people playing him are doing well and as always with how these statistics work, the mains are likely up at least a few percentage in winrate which would put them around 55% or higher which is very good.

To illustrate where i got that from, some Riot statistics guy shared that Irelia mains post some number of games generally have 54 or 55% winrate ....but she is an extreme case as normally the winrate does not rise by as much as 10%+.

But to mention i never said that Rammus was meta, i wrote that support tanks are meta and then i made a line for jungle with the icons for the currently winrate wise most successful junglers there.

.

But with this said, who is unaware or reality? You dont even know that Rammus is good x)

LanceTheJungler1 votes

He literally got buffed and made playable 1 patch ago... XD

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

He literally got buffed and made playable 1 patch ago... XD

So?

What i did was mention the tanks that are currently playable and doing well, does it matter since how long they have been doing so? Keyword "currently" as in the "present".

If you wana talk history then sure, we had two less proper tanks doing well and instead Volibear and mundo were there doing the job however right now it´s a undeniable truth that strong tanks who are part of the tank class are present.

In botlane as supports, in the jungle and also in the toplane where many if not all of them have been doing increasingly well ever since conqueror lost it´s true damage.

Reason they dont get played as much as others? Tanks are stale to play and are never truly popular unless broken enough..,....just like what we are seeing with Ornn.

Troll Slaiyer1 votes

only good rework was fiora anyone who think otherwise is a hater and they should stay mad and or bad.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

You're agreeing with me really

vgamedude1 votes

"Outplay" Potential is literally just a simpler word for "let the marksmen dodge their attacks and play around their abilities while they can't play around auto attacks".

Literally all it means. All of these other champs get all these complex abilities, skillshots and more and marksmen are still just sitting there AAing them down. Real fun.

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

Ignoring Kai'sa cause her ult shield is bs.

How much hp do adc's have? How much armor/mr do adc's usually have? If you can't hit skillshots, then you deserve to die at the hands of the adc because obv they are better than you. If you're good enough, or the enemy adc is bad enough, you hit your skillshots, they die. Simple.

If an adc dodges all your abilities and aa's you to death, either you're worse than them, or they outplayed you: implying you're worse than them.

vgamedude1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gnar Is A Cat,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EgUeGOgz,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2020-02-27T07:07:10.616+0000)

Ignoring Kai'sa cause her ult shield is bs.

How much hp do adc's have? How much armor/mr do adc's usually have? If you can't hit skillshots, then you deserve to die at the hands of the adc because obv they are better than you. If you're good enough, or the enemy adc is bad enough, you hit your skillshots, they die. Simple.

If an adc dodges all your abilities and aa's you to death, either you're worse than them, or they outplayed you: implying you're worse than them.

IF YOU CANT HIT SKILLSHOTS YOU DONT DESERVE TO DO DAMAGE

HMMMMM saying this while defending the role THAT DOESNT HAVE TO DO THAT. What in the hell logic is this? You think it's okay to stick the burden on everyone else but not them?

"if you hit skillshots they die"

no it's really not that simple, we all saw what happened when zoe released and skill shots were actually rewarded with real damage, it got instant nerfed and now ezreal is a better poke champion than her in pro and doing far more dpm while being more reliable and safer with more mobility. So even if you do "hit the skillshot" they aren't guaranteed dead, and you can find loads of clips of the best players in the world on this game missing skillshots. Pretty absurd to think it's just some uber simplistic thing.

ADCs get the ability to dodge others damage and "outplay" while they just sling unmissable attacks, how come we don't have that luxury? No one else even has the capability of "outplaying" their damage in the way you can a skillshot.

This is so dumb its unbelievable. You flame and act like "oh just hit teh skillshot bro" while defending an entire class that 99 percent of the time does not have to do that.

By the way SHEN HAS LOWER BASE HP THAN JINX so dont give me this "wahhh im squishy" crap.

Gnar Is A Cat1 votes

But see, Ezreal, has no cc to hit his skillshots with,

Most other champs reliant on skill shots (ahri, zoe, etc) have some form of cc \

People who need them, are given tools to aid them

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