Keystone mastery discussion aka "The Thunderlord's Problem"

Yrzen·12/21/2015, 10:09:07 AM·8 votes·4,242 views

Currently we have 9 keystone masteries.

Warlord's Bloodlust - For crit-based champions, mostly adcs. Fervor of Battle - For champions that auto enemy champions a lot and often. Deathfire Touch - For champions with specific interactions with it, that harass often enough with abilities to be gated significantly by Thunderlord's' cooldown, or have difficulty setting off Thunderlord's consistently.

Stormraider's Surge - For... some champions. They'd need to be able to deal a fair amount of damage in a short amount of time, then make use of the movement speed it grants. Thunderlord's Decree - For everyone that can pull off three hits in a short period of time. Windspeaker's Blessing - NamiSonaSoraka. An option for BardJanna and some self-healing champions who don't need damage and wouldn't rather have something in the resolve tree.

Grasp of the Undying - For champions who intend to stay in combat for extended periods of time, particularly those that build a lot of health. Strength of the Ages - For champions who want a bit of bonus HP and sustain Bond of Stone - For champions who stick around other champions a lot and need to be able to take a hit, particularly for them. Mostly for tank supports.

Okay, so, for an adc that builds crits we have Warlord's bloodlust, Deathfire Touch and Thunderlord's. Warlord's Bloodlust is nice and all but it doesn't actually offer you any damage, and if you have any kind of multihit you can set off Thunderlord's pretty easily by comparison. Deathfire Touch only activates on abilities, so that's off the table for almost all of them.

Now, for adcs that don't build crits we have Fervor of Battle, Deathfire Touch and Thunderlord's Decree. Once again Deathfire Touch is extremely niche among adcs, so we can ignore it. Fervor of battle only applies when attacking enemy champions, so... Ashe? Great, so Ashe can take Fervor, and everyone else will take Thunderlord's because the activation requirements and usage requirements are bad but have little overall payout to boot. Actually, now that I mention it, Ashe would probably get more damage out of Thunderlord's, wouldn't she?

Now time for assassins. Thunderlord's. The end. I dunno maybe being able to run away with Stormraider's surge is an option, but even then it doesn't make the best escape in and of itself, even with the upcoming buff. Most assassins are squishy and have have some method of escape already. I can see it being handy on Rengar or something. but even then it causes their playstyle to lean more towards feast or famine, (great to have or almost useless to have) whereas Thunderlord's will consistently help them do things either way.

Now time for Mages. They have either Deathfire Touch or Thunderlord's. What mage wants Stormraider's when the AP itemization puts their ability to put out enough damage in jeapordy to begin with? Even on Vladimir, who has damage and really needs movement speed, I'd rather just take Deathfire and build a Rylai's.

Now Fighters, Tanks and Juggernauts. I don't quite get the appeal of Strength of the Ages. So you get a free Ruby Crystal and a half, and after that if you stay in lane you'll heal a minor amount every time a siege minion rolls around. I don't see the appeal at all. The few it could apply to- passive enough not to want Grasp of the Undying (incredibly passive, as even Janna would prefer Grasp over Strength imo) but solo enough that they wouldn't want Bond of Stone- probably prefer a damaging keystone anyway. What do they turn to when they want damage? Melee, no crits, no synergy with Deathfire.

THUNDERLORD'S~~~

What's left? Supports? Bond of Stone or Windspeaker's. What's that? You want to have damage as a support? Your name isn't Brand either?

Can you get off three hits?

YOU GET A THUNDERLORD'S, YOU GET A THUNDERLORD'S, EVERYONE GETS A THUNDERLORD'S UP IN THIS BITCH.

In conclusion, League of Thunderlord's is because the keystone masteries failed to meet its stated goals of offering meaningful decisions, and isn't necessarily because Thunderlord's is overpowered and/or needs to be nerfed.

17 Comments

AyRe CoNteMpT12/21/2015, 10:49:23 AM3 votes

i really look forward to the day when people understand that not thunderlords is so strong but the entire cunning tree is what is so strong and that the distribution of different damage masteriers throughout two trees is retarded.

having said this, i dont believe that day ever comes. people are just too braindead.

baby reksai12/21/2015, 10:51:38 AM3 votes

I do agree that thunder lords is the most popular but there are some fall outs with it. The fact that it can only be proccd once every 20 seconds means extended trades could turn unfavorable. And unless you can guarantee get those three stacks (which can be put together with an auto attack) thunder lords is almost too powerful on champs that can poke proc it. Fortunately, the champs that can poke proc it (like anivia) take time to ramp up. I think every keystone offers every champ a unique way to play. I don't think the crit mastery was intended for adcs but rather crit reliant champs. Like trynd and yasuo. Same with the thunder lord proc. It was intended for a quick burst of damage. Meaning if you can't get the burst off and out do your opponent within the first 10 seconds, most likely you will lose a trade. The counter to the thunder lords is the grasp of the undying. With the grasp, tanks/fighters can out sustain the thunder lord proc. I think riot did a good job at the keystones in the sense that even though it may seem like a 1v1 duel the thunder lord champ will out burst a death fire touch champ, considering that league is a 5v5 each keystone has to be strategically used just like champ selects and team comps. When it comes down to it, each keystone offers certain points in the game where it is most efficient. The problem is understanding what that point is compared to your opponent's.

Sky of Smiles12/21/2015, 10:17:15 AM2 votes

{quoted} YOU GET A THUNDERLORD'S, YOU GET A THUNDERLORD'S, EVERYONE GETS A THUNDERLORD'S UP IN THIS BITCH.

In conclusion, League of Thunderlord's

lol

Maximum Morde12/21/2015, 12:35:24 PM1 votes

You are flat wrong by the way that DFT and Fervor do less damage than Thunderlord. Because thunderlord's is on a 20 second cooldown it's a once per fight deal, meanwhile Fervor once you stack it is a constant damage boost that outdoes the damage very rapidly. The only thing Riot did wrong when they nerfed it to hitting champs only was how quickly it stacks and they are fixing that.

DFT also strictly out damages Thunderlord's so long as you can keep it running.

TL:DR TL isn't numerically stronger than Fervor or DFT on ADCs, it's just easier.

SilverDrake12/21/2015, 2:51:47 PM1 votes

Thunderlords is just the best. it has a really good build path and it can be used by anyone. Everything else is just two situational.

The Bearded Bard12/21/2015, 3:22:08 PM1 votes

Well to be fair, Thunderlord's was completely fine on release, but everyone was complaining about it being weak, so they buffed it quite a bit. There's always a consequence to being dumb, dealing with a stronger thunderlord's is all of yours.

ModKnightsKemplar12/21/2015, 6:06:48 PM1 votes

This is an extremely late post, considering the changes that are slated for the other keystones on PBE. You are behind the party, sir, and should check out the PBE changes for answers.

Spoofghoul12/21/2015, 8:09:23 PM1 votes

TL;DR

Thunderlords is good on everyone and everything anytime.

All other masteries are very situational, take time to scale up or are only usefull on champions who don't really care about them in the first place.

Stars Shaper12/21/2015, 11:34:27 AM1 votes

My main is Xerath and it really doesn't matter which keystone to build between DFT and TDL because they both are unworthy in the same way.

Ionian12/21/2015, 12:23:48 PM1 votes

Better nerf AP items again