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Why can't Riot move to a fully transparent MMR ranked system?

ll3lackbeard·9/9/2019, 7:26:30 PM·78 votes·19,238 views

Basically the title. I know a new post is made everyday about how bad current ranked system is so why are we holding on to it like a heroin addict with his stolen opioids? Just use a flat MMR range that corresponds to a rank. No more garbage promos, no more initial placements at a rank nowhere near your true MMR, no more mysterious LP loss and gains at a certain rank, no more playing with players two tiers above your current rank, no more BS.

Riot currently uses this MMR system. (and correct me if i am wrong displayed your MMR in earlier seasons) They don't need to create anything. If you took a poll I would bet a paycheck over 75% of the player population would agree the current ranked system needs to be changed in some way. Honestly its just not fun to grind the current ranked ladder as it stands now. Matchmaking is confusing and has too many obstacles. Is a flat MMR system perfect, no but it is 100% better than the current garbage system we have now.

Thanks for your time.

61 Comments

JuiceBoxP9/9/2019, 8:38:14 PM20 votes

I agree so much.

i want flat elo too. You start at 0, and climb. 30+ for win, -30 for loss.

You have 1500 score, you get matched with 1450-1550.

IT'S REALLY, NOT THAT HARD. Many many many many many many games use this type of ladder instead of this idiotic obscure MMR system that is full of shit that is meant to slow your climb.

preternatural9/9/2019, 7:38:31 PM11 votes

i dunno man we had our elo visible way back when and it honestly made for better gauge as to how good players were. high elo started at 2k, we can all see it. korean challenger was 3k in it's prime, but that was after divisions, stats sites still had access to it though. if anything should be brought back from previous seasons it's that.

Sebastit7d9/9/2019, 10:06:30 PM7 votes

I think promo series should only be when you're changing rank (For example Silver 1 to Gold IV) but climbing inside a rank should feel more like progression rather than every step of the way depending on a win streak.

Nea1049/9/2019, 9:02:40 PM5 votes

Because they are not shady at all ^^

overpoweredscrub9/10/2019, 3:29:02 AM3 votes

If only we could figure out why riot went from a visible elo system, to a hidden mmr system, we would probably know. But yes I do agree that it's stupid that mmr is hidden. Probably so can't complain about how you have 9001 elo but then you get placed with players who have 200 elo because their match making sucks lol. So they have it hidden so you have no proof that the match making is bad and caitered more for quick match finding rather than fair ones.

Zullar9/10/2019, 9:05:58 PM3 votes

I am normally not one to complain about matchmaking. But a group of us (bronze, silver, gold) frequently get matched vs Diamonds and recently vs. a Grandmaster who got 2 pentakills.

Matchmaking needs fixing.

Jennifer4209/10/2019, 3:05:33 AM3 votes

isnt it kinda obvious why? would show the system is broken.

ITZ ICY9/10/2019, 10:59:13 AM2 votes

Yes please. Do anything about matchmaking. ANYTHING.

I'm so frustrated rn. I'm on a losing streak, so theoretically games should get easier, right? Nope. I get gold in my team when enemies still get full plat teams. No, gold wasn't a smurf, just lucky with placements :)

Dr Poro9/9/2019, 10:33:28 PM2 votes

The reason why they transitioned from ELO to the LP+MMR system was to tackle the fear of losing your peak point. Once people reached a new tier, they'd often stop playing ranked because one loss would make them drop out again and they didn't want to risk it. There were a ton of people clamping to the minimal ELO of gold, plat and diamond and then often made a smurf to try and get higher. In the new system, once you get there, there's some margin of forgiveness, quite a lot when it comes to tiers so people don't have to be afraid to play one more game. They also intentionally don't let you know when your next loss would demote you because of this. Whether this is good or bad is up for debate. Of course I would like to know when I'd demote, but I suppose it's better for the dynamics of this game when people keep playing ranked. To compensate for the forgiveness once you get there means that you have to prove that you actually deserve it. That's where the layered system with MMR + LP comes in place. No longer can you reach gold with a lucky winstreak reaching 1500 ELO. Instead, if you get 1500 MMR now, you have to continue playing a bunch of games and if your winrate stays 50% you'll get there eventually. The sad thing is indeed that with promotions, that 'eventually' can be 5 games or 50 games. The reason for promotions then again was to break the monotonous climb and feel more like an accomplishment. I'm not sure if this one's hitting its mark, though. As Sebastit7d says, they should simply remove the promos from the divisions within a tier. Note that this would mean that they'd have to lower the LP gains/losses, though, so reaching 100 would be harder.

mirAcIe9/10/2019, 9:53:39 AM2 votes

Because it will make it obvious that ranked matches are blatantly fixed with a certain team winning in mind to keep the the overall picture perfectly balanced at 50%.

Uraraka9/10/2019, 6:01:14 PM2 votes

Wdym Fully transparent MMR ranked system? Imo, just revealing the MMR will make the current system Fully Transparent MMR system.

MMR being hidden/invisible isn't the problem here-but how the matching/match making is done for games is the problem along with no punishments for trolls/afk/feeders. Matchmaking uses the Matchmaking Rating, which is elo based and hidden/not it is one of the best methods for estimating players' skill numerically. Players' skill grow over time and MMR takes more games to settle because it is always a cat and mouse game of actual MMR and estimated MMR. Rank and LP are visible metrics given for MMR, which aren't mysterious if one understands how mmr is calculated and how matchmaking is done.

Flat MMR is not perfect and is way worse because irrespective of how hard a matchup is, the gain in MMR is just constant; it will just slow up the climb, because any rating system will never accurately calculate a player's skill in initial games and with flat mmr climb will be even slower forcing players to play even more games than it is now.

I agree that promos should be removed and demotion shields also should be removed-which will increase the swing of ranks, but no more frustrating f*cked up games halting players from climbing in name of promos means overall it will be motivating to play.

Finally, I agree-there should be some sort of Player Idea Polls where players can write and vote for ideas which should be modified in-game, rather than giving out bugged patches [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] .

Thresh Outta Fux9/14/2019, 3:38:31 PM1 votes

gonna bump it again then c:

Unker1399/9/2019, 8:48:42 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Basically the title. I know a new post is made everyday about how bad current ranked system is so why are we holding on to it like a heroin addict with his stolen opioids? Just use a flat MMR range that corresponds to a rank. No more garbage promos, no more initial placements at a rank nowhere near your true MMR, no more mysterious LP loss and gains at a certain rank, no more playing with players two tiers above your current rank, no more BS.

Riot currently uses this MMR system. (and correct me if i am wrong displayed your MMR in earlier seasons) They don't need to create anything. If you took a poll I would bet a paycheck over 75% of the player population would agree the current ranked system needs to be changed in some way. Honestly its just not fun to grind the current ranked ladder as it stands now. Matchmaking is confusing and has too many obstacles. Is a flat MMR system perfect, no but it is 100% better than the current garbage system we have now.

Thanks for your time.

Transparency wouldn't necessarily be bad, but it wouldn't fix the complaints.

The mmr is a bell curve. 2/3 of the player base is within a relatively small range of mmr. It might be possible to move from what is considered bronze to gold or gold to bronze over a weekend. So unless you are really bad or really good. Your mmr doesn't tell you anything about your standing .
MMR can't "decay". MMR doesn't change when you go inactive. If you did your ranking only off MMR, someone with a challenger level MMR returning after a couple years would then be challenger again after one game. LP can be adjusted (soft reset)
MMR for a rank is not fixed.... there is no such "1200" means silver 1. It is relative to the active player base. With the LP system if the average mmr for your rank goes up, you don't automatically get demoted...though you might see your lp gains decrease as a result. With a pure mmr ranking, you could log in the next day to find your rank has changed.

SpongebobIsLife9/10/2019, 5:18:49 AM1 votes

if i remember correctly, it's because they felt it would cause players more stress.

LocoTime9/10/2019, 9:34:12 PM1 votes

I dont think any 'new'system will be better. The problems with certain mismatch mmr, trolls, new players will still be existing. What i really want to see is next:

If a player has a bad game or inting (because riot thinks always everyone can have a bad game) and goes 1/8, 3/10 or something like that. They must play a few normal games before they que up and play ranked again. Same as that you have to wait if you dodge a during champ select...

I have seen a lot people just grief or worse just inting because the enemy picked their champ or their otp. By doing that they can let the enemy win faster and make his own team impossible to win or make as hard as possible to win the game. Believe that makes people just dislike this game. The game experience is ruined by that type people.

Thresh Outta Fux9/11/2019, 2:47:34 AM1 votes

I can tell every time the playerbase on league has new people. Because the same old suggestions crop up, get upvoted into oblivion, and die off as those players get disillusioned with the game and quit, only to be replaced by new players caught in the next wave of Youtube Advertisements.

Riot used to have a system like this. They got rid of it to force player retention through elongating the process to which you would climb the ranked ladder, therefore requiring you to play more games, and more games equals more bonding with your champion, and more bonding with your champion equals more skin purchases.

Trust me dude, the ONLY way Riot will go back to Elo is if the public outcry against their design philosophies were to get to EA levels, there's too many sheep who will argue for them no matter what points you make.