Poll: What is the unhealthy part of Lee's kit?

Mephistophilis·3/26/2015, 11:07:54 AM·4 votes·1,070 views

Lee Sin has been a subject of debate for years, he is a great champion, very fun to play, but often perceived a too strong generalist. Being the mobility and the ability to do flashy plays (hi ward-hop) the estabilished core of Lee Sin identity, what is the part of his kit that should be removed/tweaked?
I put in the poll the 3 most major complaints I have often seen in the forums, so let's have a discussion of what the favourite blind monk should leave to be on par with other similar champions and at the same time mantain his playstyle.

31 Comments

SEKAI3/26/2015, 11:16:52 AM7 votes

Unhealthy part of Lee Sin?

His eyes are blind! He needs to go *see *a doctor!!

To be honest, I can be a very forgiving person.

I can forgive his Q's damage and how spammable it is in high levels, I can forgive his ward hopping that gets him out of sticky situations way too often and too easily, I can forgive his clearly way too much sustain steroid given by his W, I can even forgive the fact his kit is nearly twice as large as the standard kit size.

But I can NOT forgive his ulti which is the very pinnacle of having exactly 0 counter at all. Even when you managed to get out of the way and didn't get kicked into the middle of the enemy team or under turrets, you're still out of the fight and he could just leave and come back 1 minute later to have it back up again. It's such a strong initiation and a guarantee escape tool with non-existent cost, it's cheating. It's never about "how to deal with it", it's only about "when it will come out".

How is that fair?

Nameless Voice3/26/2015, 11:16:37 AM6 votes

None of the above.

He has too much in his kit, no individual thing is really toxic - it's the whole kit together which is bad.

If I had to name one thing, it would probably be his ridiculous mobility and the safety that it gives him. No champion should have two separate mobility skills on different cooldown AND and an incredibly strong enemy reposition skill.

UdoIkOSc4u3/26/2015, 1:21:13 PM3 votes

why you can't vote more than 1 thing pff

Dyonas3/26/2015, 11:56:43 AM2 votes

The poll isn't that great because it only leaves one option when a lot of his kit needs to be heavily tweaked. For a start there's the execute damage on Q but the lifesteal and spellvamp as well as COST FREE ult is ridiculous. The pretty low cooldown on his ult makes it all the more insulting that it has absolutely no cost.

SaltyToplaneGoat3/26/2015, 11:17:13 AM2 votes

The worst part? Actually his mobility, especially his ward-jumping.

Drunk Rummate3/26/2015, 2:48:47 PM1 votes

safeguard makes his kit ridiculous. it gives him too much on demand mobility. the Q is fine because it requires you to land the shot on a target.

Old Man Teeto3/26/2015, 3:17:15 PM1 votes

Safety combined with ability to do anything for the first 15 minutes and be effective.

Lee Sin's problem is that he forces super-passive lanes from the opponent because of how powerful his early game is.

He needs the Renekton treatment, where his early game was toned down in favor for more late game power. Lee Sin isn't picked/banned often competitively because of his poor late game, being a one trick wonder of kicking a carry into his team to be instagibbed.

Sire Hippington3/26/2015, 3:54:50 PM1 votes

actually, pretty much anything besides those three... mostly it's wards steps, and his to high early damage. Even without wardsetpes, he has plenty tools to work with and he can nearly always escape from bad situation. With that free flash ontop, things get nasty. Hiwever, if his early game gets nerfed or wardsteps get removed, he would need a lategame buff in return.

76Summers3/26/2015, 4:57:10 PM1 votes

where the fuck is the ward hop option??

GaleWinUnleashed3/26/2015, 5:00:52 PM1 votes

I'm okay with his ultimate scaling well, but I do not understand why it also needs very good base damage. It's used as an execute more often than Q2 is, in my opinion.

Also, spell vamp doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He can have the life-steal, or some other form of heal/sustain, but the spell vamp just seems unnecessary. If that's somehow essential to his jungle sustain, he can be compensated elsewhere, just get rid of the spell vamp.

Cenobite Azaziel3/26/2015, 5:06:43 PM1 votes

When the only one that build sight stone besides the suport role is lee sin, you know you have a broken mechanic. (reminds me of top ww with skirmishers saber for ultimate).

Lee sin problem is that he has too much utility. Q,W and R can be used to engage and disengage. Meanwhile his ball of stats and high base damage let him build one damage item, deal high damage and can cc your whole team inverting the back line.

Can lee keep everything in his kit? If you demolish his base damage sure, be my guest, or at least make him papier mache like shaco.

Removing his ward hop would be good. He would really fall off during late game.

The5lacker3/26/2015, 5:34:42 PM1 votes

Ward Hopping.

Ward hopping has always been the problem. Everything else is just minor frustrations, but Lee can get out of ANY sticky situation with his trinket, which is ridiculous. If a champion has an engage, they shouldn't also be able to immediately disengage. Especially if their engage out-ranges almost any other champion's.

Stars Shaper3/26/2015, 5:36:12 PM1 votes

The scaling

LordDarkshayde3/26/2015, 11:19:38 AM1 votes

Honestly I think ward-hops (Kata, Jax, Lee) should not be allowed to begin with. I'm fine with being able to leap to friendly champions or minions as a means of escape, but when you have so many things on the map that you can already jump to (minions, jungle mobs, champions) allowing these champs to interact with wards also is what is unhealthy especially when certain champs can do it (Kata, Jax, Lee) and others cannot (Irelia, Gnar, Fiora, etc.). I mean if champs can interact with their own wards then how come Gnar can't hop and bounce of his own team's wards?

lightdragoon883/26/2015, 2:09:38 PM1 votes

I really hate that Q damage.

Raja Chachki3/26/2015, 2:25:23 PM1 votes

Well first of all it's W with the spellvamp and lifesteal. But I honestly believe that all of those things need to be toned down, Lee has a shield, THAT'S his sustain, he DOESN'T need extra healing. His Q is not the strongest projectile, but the % health is annoying af. He has no reason for his ult to bump into other champions or to have 600!!! base damage with 200% scaling AD.....like why Riot? 600 base damage is QUITE A BIT for a 200% scaling ability on a somewhat short cd. And you forgot to add his ward hop into the poll, if he ward hops at least make it so he can't 2nd cast for the healing :(. A good Lee ruins my day, a bad one is deliciously easy to kill.

Laughing Fish3/26/2015, 2:33:22 PM1 votes

None of these really. Lee isn't really overpowered as much as overloaded. He has so much more versatility, and as such is almost impossible to truly counter. He is not an overpowered chanpion, he is an overpowered pick.