An entire class of Support champions is not viable.

Drunk Tsundere·10/6/2015, 3:45:15 PM·15 votes·1,987 views

I have been a Support main since Season 1. And while I love the changes that they made to the role a few years ago, it's no secret that Support champions like Lulu, Nami, Sona, etc have fallen out of the meta. Even champions like Janna, and Annie don't build Spellthief's anymore. The similarity that all of these champions have is that all of them scale with AP harder than other supports, and benefit from builds with AP. Janna and Annie found salvation by being able to survive with less AP in their builds, instead choosing to build other Support items. But the rest need AP in order to scale. They cannot scale as hard into the late game with Ancient Coin because their supporting abilities need AP to have any impact. Many Support players understandably have ditched Spellthief on these champions in favor of Coin. Right now, these Supports still buy Spellthief's because they have to, but they suffer with it, and clearly aren't viable competitively.

         The main problem with Spellthief Supports is that there are very few good Support items that give AP. Spellthief's Edge, Zeke's Harbinger, and Banner of Command. Banner of Command is not an item that a Support should build every game, because it isn't always a good item (For example if the enemy team has a lot of AD). The active on Twin Shadows is terrible, and while you sometimes see these Supports build that item, it shows how these Supports need and want the stats, but can't afford the more expensive AP items. And while these Supports can use bigger AP items like Morello's, Deathcap, and Rylai's well, they rarely have the gold income to afford them as part of their standard build.

         My solution is that we increase the on-damage gold generation on Spellthief's Edge. What this will do is allow AP Supports to better afford bigger AP items, and scale into the late game harder. It will also make them have more of an impact in the laning phase, because they will have more of an incentive to poke and harass in lane. The upsides to this are that Annie, Janna, Nami, Sona, Lulu, Zilean, Soraka, and possibly even Bard get more room to breathe with their builds. They will be able to afford the AP that they so desperately need. The downside is that Annie might possibly stop building Ancient Coin in favor of Spellthief's and become too strong. However, it shouldn't be a problem if we coupled it with some well deserved Annie nerfs to make her less oppressive with high amounts of AP.

TL;DR: Supports like Nami, Sona, Lulu, etc, need AP in order to scale, but can't afford it. Proposed solution: Give Spellthief's more gold in order to let them better afford big AP items.

41 Comments

Archon X10/6/2015, 4:19:09 PM7 votes

you can make more money off spellthief than coin if you proc it enough

then just sell it for nomads/talisman

talisman is just one of the most broken items in the game which is why all good utility/ap supports build it.

Salron10/7/2015, 3:22:30 AM4 votes

SpellThief's already gives the most gold out of all the support item lines Frost Queen's active/stats need major buffs to contend with it's counterparts

Buff Spooky Ghosts too, that item is hot garbage in comparison to other support items atm

The Yetii Rider10/6/2015, 6:33:20 PM3 votes

If you buff Spellthief gold generation it won't change anything. AP supports can't get their poke to stick because Relic Shield heals two champions every 30 seconds, and poke champions get destroyed by Thresh or Leona landing a single skill on them.

The risk is not worth the reward. Slightly more gold just before you die isn't going to help.

Miraweave10/6/2015, 7:54:10 PM3 votes

The entire problem is Relic Shield. They don't need buffs, Relic Shield needs it's sustain nerfed. That's all.

Social Justice 110/6/2015, 4:15:17 PM2 votes

item 3504 Isn't that bad after the buffs

More importantly, Lulu mid is the reminder of what happens when supports do and can scale well with AP. The utility they have makes it so that it's difficult for anybody to interact with them in-lane.

There was Zilean mid, who either outran any gank sent his way or straight-up ignored it thanks to his ult cooldown being affected by rewind. Soraka mid (and toplane) is probably the best lane-shover in League history. If we want to look way back, there was Janna mid that could clear a wave with her Q (if you play an ARAM and see the AP Janna, you can feel how it still hurts pretty bad). When a support can bring their own damage, they're better off being given a different role than support.

Ultimately, damage without conditions means sub-par utility when compared to the more popular supports. Sona hits harder than Janna, so Janna gets to be better at protecting the carry. I say "damage without conditions" because newer supports such as Bard or Tahm Kench (who also has more success with an income role) are given the ability to hurt when specific conditions have been met (aka their passives).

tl;dr Supports that do damage are at risk of making other roles unbearable so they can't have good utility, and supports that don't have good utility suck. Therefore damage supports should be reworked.

Subject 510/6/2015, 6:28:59 PM2 votes

How to counter Sona when she tries to Powerchord: Blitz, Braum, Tahm, Thresh, Alistar, Soraka, Karma, do you need more supports or nah?

FurriesAreHot10/6/2015, 3:51:56 PM2 votes

It's meta shifts, right now the tank meta is a thing again for supports, same with mage supports, it's all meta shifts, they will come back

luckmallory10/6/2015, 4:33:03 PM2 votes

I stopped reading when you said lulu fell out of the meta

Akali is SO HOT10/7/2015, 3:04:25 AM2 votes

If you aren't bad spellthief gets you the most gold in the game out of all the support items. And yes giving supports more gold so they can become burst mages late game is a great idea.

lolipopevelynn10/7/2015, 3:17:06 AM2 votes

i agree, champions that offer nothing except CC to a team is pretty outdated right now. this game is just to damage heavy.

Lucky10/6/2015, 6:01:16 PM2 votes

not viable

u srs

Sire Hippington10/7/2015, 2:41:59 PM1 votes

I don't think increasing their gp/10 further is the proper solution, spellthifs and co already can give far more gold than the other two. the problem is that most of the support-ap items could use small buffs. Frostqueen's is rather pathetic if compared to the other gold items, aside from offering better gold-income, 10-20 more ap on it would be nice, or more power for the active. Ardent censer simply needs some scaleing(ap or per level) on the on-hit damage, or the AS to be more relevant later on. Zeke's is actually fine, probably rather to strong with the stupid 50% crit for the adc. Morello's is already an underated item for ap-sup, it has pretty low costs for it'S stats and offers some utillity with GW Haunting guise and Voidstaff are both very cost-efficient options for damage Twinshadows could use a buff to the actrive, like faster ghosts, or a better slow and longerlasting vision

Subject 510/6/2015, 4:22:44 PM1 votes

Riot does not allow supports to have damage, Via Lulu, Sona (Because that re-work was not at all contradicting.) Karma (Why even make Karma a support? Supports can't do damage without Rito destroying them.)

They could have literally, just made her Q only hit 2 people or minions and BOOM she isn't a problem in top anymore. Riot questioned why Sona was building AP damage items like sheen builds, like they didn't design her to be doing what she is made to do or reworked to do.

khorney10/6/2015, 5:59:10 PM1 votes

I don't know what your talking about janna being bad I gain more passive gold off talisman and avarice blade and mastery and runes, my passive gold is 15 extra every 10 secs, that's more then my adc last hitting and I wouldn't be caught dead building spell thief unless I decided to max w first and keep using it. End of the game as janna I'm running at like 500 ap so I'm not sure why you think janna doesn't benefit off ap seeing my shield gives my adc attack speed with ardent censored and 100 extra ad

TyroneWatermelon10/6/2015, 6:02:18 PM1 votes

The purpose of support is to support is to support their allies,they support to have high base stats on abillities and low scalings, to prevent them from being overpowered.

Anyway I thought Annie's support typical build is deathcap

PokladnicaZla10/6/2015, 7:28:38 PM1 votes

Why don't we give FQC the same unique passive as Rabadons has?Instead of an active it gives the whole class the STAT that they need,while making other champions unable to buy Rabadons and FQC for the %AP.If you still consider it be viable for midlanes(because of the extra gold+farm),just make it so that the passive's disabled when they kill a minion,while buffing the Mana-reg on it. There an item that AP-supps would kill to have and the best thing is it's worth upgrading.

Tik11510/6/2015, 11:40:45 PM1 votes

The big problem with those AP supports is not their AP its the fact that they are squishy, adding more damage or support AP items will solve nothing since why pick a squishy and unrelibable Sona, Nami and hell even Bard fits the trope when you can have a Braum or a Thresh or a Leona?

The only way to bring these supports back is to give them ether suitability or reliability because otherwsie the current supports do most of the squishys job (AKA everything but damage dealing and healing but hey why worry about that when you can all in, lock down and kill the enemy damage dealer with relative ease?) so much better.

MalzaharAnyLane10/7/2015, 3:53:35 AM1 votes

I tend to find the initiation power on coin is vastly more important than any stats I could get from Spellthief or Targons.

I think your problem is that coin's active needs a nerf, not that spellthief or targons are bad items.

That being said, my ADCs lately have been so utterly terrible at wave management (read: I know where the creeps need to be better than the ADC or the ADC has blown all their mana and has nothing left to waveclear) that I've taken to autoattacking creeps down so they can last hit, or using some of my skills to waveclear so that the tower lasts longer than friggin' level 6. This puts us both in more danger when I have to do this, but they tend to get more money in the end even if they whine that I'm obviously trying to steal their CS or something.

The supports you are citing as unviable and out of the meta need to spend more time helping with wave management since they pretty frequently have inexpensive waveclear abilities that don't need to be exclusively reserved for harassing the enemy laner. Tanky supports can't do this, Braum, Leona and Thresh are pretty terrible at waveclearing for their ADC's to last hit while Blitzcrank, Soraka, Lulu, Nami and so on have better tools for this.

The Bearded Bard10/7/2015, 3:56:33 AM1 votes

I'd build spell thief's on my support Shaco if boxes applied it.

Sohleks10/7/2015, 10:05:19 AM1 votes

When frost queen gold generation got bug buffed out the wazzo on the pbe a while back I legit thought Riot was considering much needed buffs to this item line. But it was just a bug.