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5.22 Fiddlesticks problems

diamondthree·11/12/2015, 7:18:54 AM·5 votes·2,727 views

Hello. I main Fiddlesticks. I'm a terrible bronzie, but I play a just-plain-stupid amount of Fiddlesticks, so when there is changes, I can feel them.

Disclaimer: I'm a terrible bronzie so take that into consideration when I say these things:

Fear is bugged. Has been bugged for a long time in various ways, but now it appears to be worse. The bug where you cast Fear at the same time your opponent casts a certain ability, and your opponents ability works fine, you hear Fear effects (however you don't see it), and it goes on cooldown, but your opponent was never actually feared - that bug is back with a vengeance. Just anecdotally from the few games I've played, it appears to have this issue with Master Yi (as he Alpha Strikes), Vladimir (as he pools), Quinn (as she does her dash-jump-slow ability, whatever that's called), LeBlanc (as she re-casts her jump ability to return to a previous position), Ekko (as he casts his back-in-time ability), and I'm sure the list goes on since I've only played the patch for 5-6 hours. My layman's guess here is that my client thinks I got the Fear off in time and it plays the audio and serves me a cooldown, but the server's like "Nope, your opponent did his move first" due to latency differences. But I don't really know.

Yeah, Fear is a very powerful Q. But it's just not cool for it to go on cooldown when it never actually happened. And in the world of fast moving teamfights, that Fear cooldown is so long that it's basically a crucial once-per-teamfight ability down the drain.

I used to be able to sneak a solo level 4 Dragon and catch the other team unawares, but I can't seem to do it anymore. Here's what I used to do:

Buy Machete. Put point in Drain. Do Gromp (smited), put point in Dark Wind. Do Blue, then Wolves (smited). Put 2nd point in Drain (none in Fear yet), then back. Buy Stalker's Blade. Time should be 3:10ish leaving the platform. Do Krugs, then Red, then Raptors (smited). Put point in Fear. Nearly full health and mana, and Blue buff is just about to end. Head straight to Dragon with Raptor buff to ensure you're unnoticed. Do Dragon (smited). Finish with about 1/3 health remaining and low mana, at around 6:00.

But now I just can't figure out a way to get that done. Part of it might be mastery changes (my Smite is on a longer cooldown now, which interferes with the rhythm and timing). But I just feel super weak. Weaker than normal. I know Fiddle is a weak early jungler very susceptible to early counter-jungles (I'm scared to death of Lee Sin), but it just feels much worse. Another part is probably the item changes. Now I have to start with this Hunter's Talisman. I can't start Machete unless I want to buy pots (normally I never used them on Fiddle, as he heals himself!) or be nearly executed by Blue or Wolves. My damage dealt to the Dragon seems to be lacking. I can't get it done. In a few tries now, the closest I've gotten before I would have been executed was about 1600 Dragon health remaining. I run out of mana, but even if I didn't, I'm just not healing enough to win the fight, either.

I'm constantly out of mana in this patch, and the trade-offs make me underpowered. Get this, even with Unholy Grail, Morello's, and Blue buff, I'm still running out of mana occasionally (granted I do now have 45% CDR). I hate having to buy both mana items (Grail+Morello's) because I have to then wait so long for the Rabadon's. I tried Tear into Archangel's on this patch but it really wrecks my early game even more if I do that, and this new patch seems to be all about the early game. I'm lucky to reach 500AP by the end of these 5.22 games, made worse by having to buy items skewed more towards mana regen vs. AP. Before, a full build of Seraph's+Zhonya's+Rabadon's+Stalkers/Runeglaive+MagicPenBoots+Rod Of Ages+Elixir gave me unlimited mana, over 1000 AP and 23 magic penetration with the runes/masteries I used to have. It was the most decisive teamfight winner I've seen in the (bronze) League. But I don't think I'll be getting to a full build very often in 5.22.

Crowstorm: Is it cool if I still gripe about the channel mechanics of Fiddle's Crowstorm ult/R ? Can you name another channeled ult/R that goes on it's full, very long cooldown even when it never actually happened (even if simply self-cancelled)?

No, no you can't.

One of the most annoying things for us Fiddle players, is when your teammates think you suck and make fun of you because you ulted a blank space where the teamfight WAS moving towards, but it happened to change direction as you channeled (you end up looking pretty dumb). With how fast the game has become the past few years, something needs to change about this. Teamfights change position much faster than they did when Crowstorm was initially conceived. Everything is faster. Crowstorm is still slow and not cancel-able.

Damage is lacking, especially on Drain, and especially early game. Get this, in one game I had earlier today, at about level 8-9, I caught out a Viktor in my jungle alone, and he only had 50% health while I was full health. And I got the drop on him. I hit him with Fear, Dark Wind, Drain, in quick succession. The moment Fear ended he 100-0'd me with his combo (he was not fed at all, we were approximately equal) and continued on his way with about 15% health. I couldn't even believe it.

Actually, I could. This is a common thing lately.

Bonus Crowstorm: This one actually doesn't benefit me. This is a long-standing bug: The visual circle indicating where you will take damage from Crowstorm is not large enough. I would actually say MOST of my ult kills occur against people who are visibly outside the circle. It is unclear to my opponents where the damage zone actually ends. I would encourage Riot to make that circle visually a little bigger to match it's actual damaging area of effect. Please don't reduce the damaging area of effect to match the visuals. LoL

Fiddlesticks emotes are old, few in number, lacking in diversity, and stale. They literally smell like Karthus. Can we get some new audio/visual shiny's please?

Dark Wind: This one doesn't benefit me either: Dark Wind looks rather stupid when it bounces of the spot where it's target used to be, but since the target is dead, there's literally nothing there, but then it continues on anyway to bounce to other targets. I think that ought to be changed. It shouldn't be able to bounce off of nothing. If that low-health minion dies while Dark Wind is enroute, too-bad-so-sad should really be the game's response. It shouldn't keep going. Maybe have it disintegrate in midair when the bounce target dies first.

I mention this because I killed TWO people with a single Dark Wind earlier today when the initial minion had died before the Dark Wind got there. It bounced off nothing, then twice each on my opponents, killing both. They were understandably angry. It doesn't seem right.

Maybe to offset this minor nerf you could slightly increase the base damage of the ability. It's plenty strong late, but incredibly insignificant early, and I really miss being able to play Fiddlesticks in a lane. A little Dark Wind base damage buff might make him able to clear and CS and possibly play a lane again.

Drain straight-up fails sometimes. I've had it where he'll visually be standing tall with his arms out, facing his Drain target and quivering like he does, but there is no actual Drain occurring. It's hard to tell what exact situations this happens in (usually occurs in very chaotic moments of teamfights) but it definitely occurs with more frequency when an opponent Pantheon is involved - but not exclusively. Riven might also be causing it occasionally, too. This is a major issue because it will take me that slight crucial moment to realize I'm not actually Draining like it appears that I am (no damage, no healing, no visual Drain-link between Fiddle and the target, etc.). Then I'm dead. BOOM. Too bad, so sad.

Also, since Drain's link range was nerfed a year-or-so ago, there has been an introduction and proliferation of ways for opponents to get out of range faster, or instanly. And new champs with this ability (Ekko, RekSai, Bard, etc). I would be in favor of a slight re-increase of Drain's link-retention range. It's comparable to Morgana ult / LeBlanc chain / Karma link in distance, but Fiddle has to stand still!!! LOL

Thanks for reading! Here's to hoping Fiddlesticks becomes a relevant champ again, someday. <3

6 Comments

CopperLeGre11/14/2015, 1:03:29 PM2 votes

Hi,

I read this post and I agree with some things. I'm not sure if it's a bug when your fear goes on cd if you cast it in certain situations. Fear has a channel time (you can do things like fear flash) so if a master yi alpha strikes while your fear channels, he won't get targetted and your fear will go on cd which is logic I think. So I don't think that's a bug.

But what I really aggree with is that fiddlesticks is nerfed a lot last season and especially with the new jungle changes. Last season they changed the magus item because fiddlesticks doesn't really need it. That's true, a fiddlesticks can jungle without fully upgrading his jungle item, but that doesn't mean it is efficient. The 20% cdr was very good because you didn't have to buy morello and the 80 ap was very nice too. I saw a lot of good fiddlesticks players(master, challenger in games I spectated and profiles I checked for builds) buy the item for that reason. Fact that they reworked magus to runeglaive made fiddlesticks had no viable jungle item anymore and he had to buy the first upgrade for the extra gold which is not fun at all.

Now with the preseason changes he has to buy 2 items for his first upgrade. The talisman item gives much much less mana in jungle than the previous machete and the new machete is completely useless on fiddle since he nearly never autoattacks. But the problem is you have to buy at least one of the useless items because otherwise you don't even get enough xp. Some other junglers (like tanks) got nerfed a bit too because they also have to buy 2 jungle items but at least their final upgrade is a good item which is not the case with Fiddlesticks. This gives that the jungle item is nerfed again for fiddlesticks and it even became much more expensive.

What I also don't like is the fact that they removed mana potions. You can buy a refillable potion with your starting item but it's not a good item on fiddlesticks. Fiddlesticks is one of these few champions who needs mana regen much more than health regen. He can't jungle without mana, he can't attack without mana. Compared to other champions like xin zhao, master yi, vi: They can jungle very well without a lot of mana. Another nerf for fiddlsticks (and this one hurts more than some players would think).

They also made the price of core mage items higher. For example: Fiddlesticks biggest core item zhonyas costs now 500 more gold but gives less armor. I aggree with the fact that some items costs must be higher (because we get more passive gold) but I don't aggree with the fact that you nerf them and that many ad items don't get higher prices. This is a mages nerf in general.

One solution I could think about to solve the mana problems for fiddlesticks is to bring the trailblazer back. But you should be able to upgrade one single jungle item into this trailblazer for a lower cost price (so you gain 15 less xp and don't get the lifesteal but get the mana regen en the aoe dmg in jungle comming from the trailblazer).

Another solution could be to give fiddlsticks a (new) viable jungle item and not just something he has to buy with the only reason to get more xp (which is not fun).

And if riot really doesn't want to think about giving fiddlesticks viable items and solve his problems, pls give him a little rework. For example, you could give him a new little passive on his drain that makes him regenerate a bit more of mana while draining in the jungle. I don't think such a change would make him overpowered or even that much better, but at least it would solve his mana problem in the jungle.

And to respond to your other problems. I don't think he lacks any damage on his drain. I think it's fine but you have to get used to the fact you have to stand still for e few seconds. You can't expect burst damage from a spell that does damage over time while you can fear your opponent to keep him in your range. I also don't have any problems with killing dragon at lvl 4. I think you should think about new masteries and/or new runes.

I really hope Riot will read our posts and will think about any possible solutions. The fact that we write such long post means we really care about this champion and his problems.

Thanks in advance for reading :)!

Tonedondalow11/14/2015, 5:21:19 AM1 votes

Hello good sir. Your post made me logon and write my first post on this forum. Actually- might be my first post on any forum.

Anyway, I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write out everything above. Other than your comments about Dark Wind, I agree with and have experienced everything you say above. I am also a Fiddlesticks player, but I happen to play in the Gold 3-5 range (about 68% win rate on 60 ranked games). The new jungle items are completely worthless, there are no mana potions, and they brought back executioners calling.

I am really hoping to see some significant improvements or item changes come along to help fiddle, or we may see his extinction soon enough.

LinhHN11/14/2015, 11:03:21 AM1 votes

Hi. I'm also a fiddlesticks main in low diamond/high plat elo. There are some things I agree with (bugs, etc) and some I disagree with (early drag, you can do it lvl 3 actually if u have right runes/masteries, etc). Main thing I have problems with is that riot seems to have a target on fid's back. In last season, fear nerfed twice. Drain nerfed. Dark wind nerfed twice. Passive nerfed. Nerfed some key item stats (zhonya, etc.). Then increased price of those items? Deleted magus because "most fiddle mains skip it in favor of zhonya". Then makes him NEED to get jungle item in order to get the same xp as other junglers? (can't even reach lvl 2 off gromp without it) Now, they buff AD champs/items and increase proliferation of grievous wound items and make it only affect self-heal? Like, srsly, I wanna see a riot employee actually look at fid and tell me he's not been completely killed off. I wish they'd just rework him at this point.

Some of their actions seems completely contradictory to their earlier reasoning for doing things, making one think that the earlier reasoning was completely pulled out of their a** to nerf him because people complained about him.

zmmby11/18/2015, 6:58:18 AM1 votes

You made a good point, upvoted!

I think he needs a buff, or atleast some jungler items. Im having huge mana problems with him at the moment.