Can we eventually have a buff on Wit's end ?

Woken Spectre ·6/28/2017, 12:32:57 PM·46 votes·2,782 views

item 3091 Seriously the item is about useless now, it's very niche at best. Only a few characters build it because they have an extreme synergy with it(Irelia ) But what really annoys me is that when you have a character that could build either item 3091 or item 3156, he will systematically build the latter. Why ? Because Maw outscales Wit's end in almost every case. Just with the build itself, you can buy hexdrinker in lane if needed, then finish maw later, While you cannot build negatron cloak and Wit's end later because it's underwhelming, it gives only one stat, and you will at best be late for building cloak so early, otherwise you will straight up become useless. Also, once finished, despite the two items being cost efficient, item 3091 simply can't compete, because it costs 2500g its stats are just not as valuable as a finished Maw.

Consider this, the job of those item is to provide an offensive option against Magic damage dealer, Maw does have slightly less MR overall if you count with Wit's end passive, but it gives cooldown reduction, AD, which champions scale way more often with, and a shield when you get low, and when the shield is active you get 10% Lifesteal and Spellvamp until you are out of combat. Now item 3156 is not a broken item, it's good, it does his job, but it's nothing gamebreaking.

Wit's end on the other hand, does give you some damage, but you don't scale with it since it's on-hit, it gives you attack speed, and more MR if you dealt 2 Auto-attacks, it steals this MR which makes it so over a long fight, you might deal more damage than if you had item 3156, but the thing is, with its poor defensive stats, the item simply doesn't allow to survive that long.

Now I don't really have a perfect solution to this problem, but if you could have something like

(item 1042 +item 1033 ) = item 3091 (nerfed accordingly )

item 3091 + ( Some other item that would add some stats ) = An item around the costs of item 3156 that would actually feel like it does something.

42 Comments

Scary Door6/28/2017, 1:16:19 PM13 votes

Wit's End has been in a terrible/unviable state since... basically forever.

It's such a niche item that there really isn't a change I could suggest that would help it without completely making it worse or absolutely overpowered.

Giving it AD seems like a band-aid solution.

More attack speed seems gratuitous.

More MR only serves to give power where it doesn't really need it.

Lifesteal would make it to appealing to adcs and would break it completely.

Upping the on-hit damage would be nice, but again that's just giving power for the sake of power and not addressing it's core issue, plus that would only serve to further help the two or three champions that might build it in a very specific situation.

Giving it extra damage versus monsters might be a neat way to go---and could help a few junglers, but this would only serve to help Warwick more than anything.

Adding a three-hit type of bonus passive could prove interesting, but even that doesn't seem to solve the problem entirely.

Wit's End has power, but it's just not that desirable in most situations, it's an item that's outshined by others but yet can't be buffed or else it simply overwhelms the other options.

rework trundle6/28/2017, 4:23:30 PM9 votes

Old WW built it, Kog builds it 1/5 games now?

Better remove Zephyr

Peel Your ADC6/28/2017, 4:28:55 PM7 votes

Remember when this item burned mana?

God, swain hated his life in season 1.

SpecterVonBaren6/28/2017, 11:16:50 PM6 votes

Reduce its damage, give it some health. We now have an attack speed item for tanks.

JhomasTefferson6/28/2017, 2:33:36 PM3 votes

I only ever see it on old ww, teemo, kayle, apc ziggs, kog, kennen, and other champs who have a really good synergy with it, and only when they need mr. It's not core on anyone. for attack speed and mr, bork, zerkers and maw/Mercscim/EoN are better even for on hit builds.

AirKingNeo6/28/2017, 5:03:45 PM3 votes

Raise the attack speed to 50% and give it 10 more onhit damage. Make it +400 gold.

yoshi27906/28/2017, 12:38:23 PM3 votes

Irelia builds item 3091 ??

Ha. What a joke.

woodvsmurph6/28/2017, 10:26:25 PM2 votes

On-hit adc's, kayle, and aa tanks/bruisers vs a double ap comp. Those are all users of witt's end. Example from a game yesterday:

Volibear vs double ap comp, plus others who deal some magic damage item 3748 item 3065 item 3091 item 3110 end with item 3190 or item 3193 It gives him some nice damage in fights - synergizing with his w attack speed and the aoe magic damage from his ult while giving him some extra mr. Making witt's end a cheaper item with less stats is not the solution. It is a niche item, but it is hardly worthless. I actually like it on many aa-based bruisers and fighters if the enemy lacks a lot of hard cc. For instance, if you have to build tankier on noc because you are the primary engage and don't want to insta-die and rely on ga to revive you... item 1401 item 3022 item 3110 item 3091 item 3153 is a fun drain tank build. Adapt items as needed depending on how tanky you need to be - such as replacing cinderhulk with item 1416 ; works for other aa junglers too.

nachocheeseeeee6/28/2017, 2:24:26 PM2 votes

Not to mention it looks mad outdates in terms of visual design.

Proxy3456/28/2017, 4:31:22 PM2 votes

Let the on hit magic damage scale with AP.

Rengooo6/28/2017, 10:54:12 PM2 votes

Idea time!

New Unique Passive - At Wits End: Upon reaching maximum stacks on an enemy, the will reach wits end, becoming feared for 1 second and taking 10% of their maximum health as magic damage.

Lol.. Idk, Just going by the name it should drive the enemy to their wits end :p

junkgummybum6/28/2017, 5:38:08 PM1 votes

Raise the price 300 g and make the 40 magic dam critable, makes Kogmaw broken

sej twen6/28/2017, 8:11:12 PM1 votes

the item simply just needs a complete overhaul, or riot should just remove it

Variks the Loyal6/28/2017, 4:17:19 PM1 votes

Wit's End's issue is that it tries to be too many things. It's an on-hit item, a resistance item, a shredding item, and an Attack Speed item.

I have a feeling it's original purpose was for use with Attack Speed based characters when going against enemies that build a lot of Magic Resistance, shredding some of it away to either make it easier for yourself or your allies to deal damage, while bolstering your own defenses against Tanks, which are mostly based on Magic Damage.

It's left as fairly niche, but on-hit attack speed items are generally niche. Like Guinsoo's Rageblade or Nashor's Tooth.

Shahamut6/28/2017, 10:40:00 PM1 votes

I like this idea. Take the MR shred off, make it a partial item like hex drinker and make a new completed item.

Heck, I wouldn't mind if they also removed the on hit damage if they took this route. Higher MR than maw since no shield, attack speed instead of ad, build into new item sounds good.

Do it

Shacophobia6/30/2017, 8:45:33 AM1 votes

item 3056 ?

ZT Xperimentor6/28/2017, 4:06:38 PM1 votes

Or just revert maw, it already was a good item before they overbuffed it.

KVbqbFsC8e6/28/2017, 11:26:47 PM1 votes

No on-hit items whatsoever should be buffed until Kayle is reworked.

A Bepi6/28/2017, 11:27:13 PM1 votes

It's a niche item but I wouldn't say it's unviable. Personally I like building this item on Kayle and even Teemo paired with guinsoo. It's not the best but it serves a niche purpose like nashors does

aLawfulFalafel6/29/2017, 12:21:17 AM1 votes

oh i bought that item once...i seriously think ive only bought it twice ever actually tho, once on shen and once on kayle, both do well with it but next to other items its a wasted inventory slot

item either needs mini RW or inventory expanded to 10 slots might make this item fit into another build or two...maybe

grayamir6/29/2017, 12:24:39 AM1 votes

I buy it for Bard fairly often in ARAM, sometimes in SR too. It feels right on him.

Tobias Brackner6/29/2017, 10:17:02 AM1 votes

Wits End is a badass item and really strong on team comps with multiple AP damage sources.

It's only problem is finding the right spot to build it since you want a base of health/resistances before you pick it up.

I dream of being able to slap in on a Supp.Braum

MunchCrunchLunch6/29/2017, 8:19:01 PM1 votes

item gives nothing but power to champs that do nothing but auto attack. at the same time its inferior to crit. so adcs won't build it. ir doesn't give more damage than stacking ad items . with no hp the MR is worthless. the shred is also worthless because squishies have so little MR the shred won't matter anyway as they should be dead in less auto attacks than it takes to stack it

at the same time the shred is so small its worthless on tanks.

I cannot think of a possible buff to this item without completely reworking it.

Sire Hippington6/29/2017, 9:34:33 PM1 votes

Not that i disagree with the post in general, but how does Irelia have extreme synergie. Quite some of Wit's end's power is put into the MR-shred, which Irelia hardly uses. Warwick Shyvana KogMaw all would be better examples. Wich is why Wit's should not only become a component item for one, but two items, of which one goes the current rute with magic shred(maybe add some ap) For fighters that have naturaly high magic damage Like Shy, and one with just as, mr and flat magic damage(maybe some ad) so it suits fighters that AA alot and want a more hybrid focused damage profile like Irelia.

Though the main issue is that DPS without sustain is not desireable atm, it's way to hard to survive long enough to make use of it on melees, and most ranged champs are better of useing full damage+sustain. If damage overall wasn't so high that you need a full tank built paired with % damage reduction in the kit to survive more than 4sec as a melee in a teamfight, (semi)offensive items that focuse on extendet fights would be more valuable.

DR NEEDLEDlCK6/30/2017, 1:26:46 AM1 votes

Why not make Wit's End not just deal 40 magic damage, but also the 15 physical damage from Recurve Bow? For a total of 55 damage.

LordOfTheLeague6/28/2017, 5:21:40 PM1 votes

Make it an ap + as item that compete with nashor tooth. Maybe that looks like brk for ap as guys.

Maybe with a rework of spellvamp or any sustain (more balanced than life steal).

Something that people like azir or diana would buy.

Just like vayne or irelia buy brk.